TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1974 times:
This was in the news:
"Deportation protest halts flight
A British Airways flight from London to Frankfurt was delayed for more than two hours after a passenger objected to the deportation of an African asylum seeker. A man stood up as the airliner was taxiing to the runway, and shouted that the African -- from the Democratic Republic of Congo -- was being deported unfairly.
The take-off was abandoned when he refused to sit down. The protestor, who was arrested, is thought to be a member of a group campaigning on behalf of asylum seekers.
Police said the African had been refused permission to stay in Britain and would be deported on a later flight."
(Source: BBC World Service)
Reading stories like this, one would wonder whether people should be deported on commercial flights, or whether special transport should be organized.
Any thoughts on this?
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10794 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1891 times:
Why not? They're not just being dropped off at the airport and picked up on the other end are they? Don't they receive police escorts (and handcuffs)? I would imagine that particularly troublemaking deportees and criminals may be deported through other means, but why fly a military or police flight somewhere simply for one passenger if it isn't necessary? I mean, if the commercial jet is going where the convict is going, it definitely uses less tax money to send him that way.
Tupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1856 times:
Well Buford Furrow, the guy who went on a child-shooting rampage at a Jewish community center in LA last year, got a direct flight from Nevada to the LA county jail on his own private UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter along with his own guards (and not to mention some handcuffs and shackles).
XNV From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 142 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1836 times:
I worked a flight once (as a flight attendant) and we transported two guys from south america who were to be deported. The customs officer handed over their passports to me and they travelled UNESCORTED on the flight for 3 hours. I expected a customs agent or RCMP officer to meet the flight, but no! They were met by another airport agent and casually escorted to their next flight. I guess they weren't considered a threat, but I was amazed at the lack of concern that they might bolt out of the plane when we got to our destination.
I have had many prisoners on my flights, all escorted. One guy who was considered to be particularly violent had hand and leg cuffs on and an officer on each side during the flight.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5563 posts, RR: 38 Reply 6, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1834 times:
This has been a disscussion here in Switzerland because Swissair refused to take deportees, who did not want to leave the country and were unruly, to take on their flights. Governement had to charter extra planes for that.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10051 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1812 times:
A few months ago here in Germany a group acting against deportations in general printed and distributed a Lufthansa lookalike ad-leaflet announcing the new "deportation class"! That caused some media uproar of cause.
Basically I don´t think that it is not a very good idea to deport people in normal airliner flights. But often it would simply be far to expensive to organize a separate flight. There´s no other way. Or shall 20, 30, 100 of these mainly poor and unlucky people (most are not criminals) stay in deportation prisons for months ´til a flight is full? That´s cruel.
TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1792 times:
Interesting or even fascinating as the swing towards criminals may be, that's not exactly what I was aiming at. For the record, at no time did I mean to indicate deportees as being criminals. I just thought I'd mention that.
Basically, I was trying to look at the whole concept from the point of view of the paying passenger. If you pay a full fare ticket, will you be happy with someone being on the flight who - whichever way you look at it - would rather not be there? To make it more concrete; how would you feel if this person sat in front of you, behind you, or... next to you?
Also, don't crewmembers have a right to go to work without the stress of people potentially endangering safety on board? I'm not saying all deportees are violent (indeed, most of them are not), but I am merely talking about the potential.
Not unlike XNV, I've had my share of deportees on board. Not once were they escorted. The reason being we have a policy similar to the one described by ZRH. Just to stress that, indeed, most deportees are not violent at all.
Please note once again I am not making a statement against anyone, and I certainly see the human tragedy in the whole fugitive problem, whether it be political or economical. I am merely trying to find out your views on the pure fact of having a deportee on a commercial flight, alongside paying passengers. Whether the person in question is violent or not.
TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
An article recently uncovered additional consequences of deporting refugees on commercial flights.
Demonstrators are now attempting to use such tactics as refusing to sit down in the aircraft in protest to people being returned to their home country.
Whether the deportation is justified or not - I do not wish to make any statements on that. However, as airline crew, we can expect passengers not to make our lives difficult or miserable by disturbing peace on board.
These demonstrators are called "unruly passengers", and I couldn't agree more. IMO, standing up (aptly phrased...) for your opinion is one thing, but giving innocent bystanders a hard time by doing so, is something else.
Referring to the airlines, an activist is quoted, saying "Because of their profile...they are vulnerable to this kind of direct action and we'll try anything that works."
"Peaceful action"? I think not.
Not unlike IATA, I agree with the airline spokesman who said "(The activists) at least inconvenience and at worst possibly endanger the passengers and crew of aircraft."
TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (13 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1759 times:
I appreciate your input. However, this thread was started about deportees. At no point did I want to imply deportees are criminals.
Right now, I'm enquiring about people's opinion on activists disrupting peace on board. They claim to be protesting in favour of human rights.
While I don't intend to make any statement on whether they are right or wrong, I am concerned with the mere fact of them preventing normal operation of commercial flights - where paying passengers and working crew are concerned.
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1740 times:
The same issue arose here in Trinidad recently as 4 Nigerian nationals who were being detained in prison were ordered deported home. Basically, they had overstayed their visas. A huge controversy arose when it became public that they had been held for up to 4 years. As a result, plans were hatched to send them home. As there are no direct flights from POS to Nigeria it was initially decided to fly them to the US to be transferred to Nigeria Airways for the flight home. The US debarred that, saying that they did not want the deportees passing through their territory (and ostensibly seeking refugee status there). After much ado, a chartered plane flying a number of Nigerian deportees from the US itself stopped over in POS to take the deportees from here; the plane continued to Lagos. (I do not know what type it was; I did not see it.)
Controversial, yes but I think one should be moved to think about deportees. Some do carry out illegal activities or crime but others merely seek a better life only to be ultimately road-blocked. It is indeed an unfortunate aspect of modern life.
TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (13 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1730 times:
Hmmm, thanks for that story, Trintocan.
It seems like not an awful lot of people in the forum are concerned with the subject.
I'm not exactly looking for justification of governments' policies on expelling/deporting people from their territory. The sole question I was pondering on when I started the thread, is "do these people have to be transported on commercial flights alongside paying passengers and crew?"
Just recently, I was particularly disturbed to read about activists disrupting peace on board in protest of deportation activities. Regardless of whether the deportee should be there or not, it seems to me no-one (*no-one*) should have the right to endanger safety on board. No matter what their motivation may be.
It's certainly strange to see not a whole lot of people in the forum seem to have any kind of an opinion on that. One would think frequent flyers are particularly concerned...? Maybe (apparently) that's a view that will have to be reconsidered.
Copper1 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 439 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1717 times:
A few years ago Immigration Canada deported a young fellow back to his native Scotland. This guy was in his early 30's and had been a criminal up to the time of his deportation. His whole family was a bunch of no goods and three of his brothers are still in prison on a first degree murder charge and will be "sent home " upon their release.
Anyway, the story goes that this guy didn't get to go commercial but he flew to Scotland the the rear of a C-130 Hercules. At some early point in the trip he started misbehaving and the CAF lads were not going to put up with any BS from this guy. They handcuffed the guy to an overhead railing and the SOB stood for the trip with his arms above his head.
Sounds like the proper way to deal with deportees.
TriStar From Belgium, joined Oct 1999, 848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1705 times:
From Webster's Comprehensive Dictionary:
"deportee: A person banished from a country as undesirable or as having entered illegally."
Allow me to stress again, first and foremost I am referring to the deportation of persons falling in the latter category. Most of the time, it concerns people who have fled their country for one reason or another, but who have been denied refugee status. Perhaps they are "refugees" by definition (having fled their country, after all), but I mean they have not been granted a permit to stay in the country they fled to (i.e. their motivation has been deemed unacceptable by the government), therefore they are returned home.
All of this to say I'm not talking about murderers or other criminals.