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Australia-Brazil Billateral Treaty  
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

I was just listening to Question Time from Parliament, and the Minister for Transport, Warren Truss, stated that the a billateral agreement has been concluded between Australia and Brazil, allocating 7 passenger services on aircraft of any size a week to each country, and 3 cargo services per week to each country. He stated that no airline has yet applied to use the capacity, but that it will open the door to greater trade between Australia and South America.

V/F


"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting VirginFlyer (Thread starter):
I was just listening to Question Time from Parliament, and the Minister for Transport, Warren Truss, stated that the a billateral agreement has been concluded between Australia and Brazil

Question 1 - Why were you listening to Question Time? you were that board?

Question 2 - Who initiated this? and why? Is there any forseen use for this treaty?

Gemuser



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User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Why were you listening to Question Time? you were that board?

I actually find it rather interesting.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Who initiated this? and why? Is there any forseen use for this treaty?

It wasn't stated. Presumably there is hope that air services might be established between the two countries. However, it is not unusual for treaties to be signed, and then the rights to remain dormant for some time...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3322 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

what wasn't added in Truss' comments is that the discussions PROBABLY also granted Australian carriers third country codeshare.

so in the future, you will prob find that QF's code on LAN to SCL is extended all the way through to Rio and Sao Paolo.


That's the ONLY reason QF... ooops, i mean Australian authorities would have wanted talks with brazil. : )


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
so in the future, you will prob find that QF's code on LAN to SCL is extended all the way through to Rio and Sao Paolo.


That's the ONLY reason QF... ooops, i mean Australian authorities would have wanted talks with brazil. : )

QF codeshare with LA for SCL - GRU/GIG does make sense since Brazilians comprise about 50% of pax on LA/QF flights SCL-SYD/AKL.

Recently AR also started to operate its flights to AKL/SYD orginating from GRU instead of EZE.

Rgs,


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Question 1 - Why were you listening to Question Time? you were that board?

I think it far stranger that one of my countrymen would question someone taking an interesting in what happens in federal parliament.

I don't want to call you ignorant of the way this country works and of the workings of government, but..

QFF


User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Here is the extract from yesterday's Hansard ( http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr140206.pdf )

Quote:
Aviation
Mr NEVILLE (2.43 pm)—My question is ad-
dressed to the Minister for Transport and Regional
Services. Would the minister advise the House of the
measures the government is taking to ensure the
growth of our aviation industry?
Mr TRUSS—I thank the honourable member for
Hinkler for his question. I acknowledge his keen inter-
est in transport issues and particularly in aviation mat-
ters. I am pleased to report to the House that, last week,
the government secured an agreement with Brazil on a
draft treaty to provide scheduled air services between
our two countries. This agreement has the potential to
strengthen the links, the trade and other opportunities
between Australia and one of the fastest growing
economies in the world—a country with 180 million
people—and to increase interests and matters in com-
mon with Australia. This new agreement will allow
international airlines of both countries to operate up to
seven weekly services, using any type of passenger
aircraft. They will also be able to operate up to three
weekly air cargo services each, and that will provide
opportunities to build also the air freight between our
countries.
Forty thousand people travelled between Brazil and
Australia in the 12 months to October 2005. This is a
market that has been growing at about eight per cent
per annum since 1999. Our yearly airfreighted exports
to Brazil are valued at $42 million.
While no airline at the moment has plans to take up
these rights, it does give the opportunity to us to de-
velop services over the months and years ahead and to
broaden the travel opportunities between Australia and
South America. Over the last 12 months my depart-
ment has held a wide range of bilateral aviation discus-
sions with countries like Argentina, Austria, Germany,
Ireland, the Czech Republic, Mexico, Switzerland and
the United Kingdom and also informal discussions
with the United States of America. We are achieving,
bit by bit, opportunities for Australian airlines to oper-
ate into other parts of the world and to provide more
opportunities for Australians to have choice in the way
in which they travel around the world and to visit more
countries by way of direct services.

There is also a Media Release ( http://www.ministers.dotars.gov.au/w...eases/2006/February/012WT_2006.htm )

Quote:
AUSTRALIA & BRAZIL REACH AIR SERVICES AGREEMENT
The Australian Government Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Warren Truss, announced today that Australia and Brazil had reached an agreement on a draft treaty which provided for scheduled air services between the two countries.

Mr Truss said the arrangements under the agreement would strengthen the political, trade, social and commercial links between Australia and Brazil and provide a basis on which to further develop those links.

"Brazil has a population of some 180 million people and until last week, we had no formal air services arrangements that would allow scheduled international air services to operate.

"The new arrangements, which include a proposed formal air services agreement to be considered by the two Governments, will allow international airlines of both countries to operate up to seven weekly services, using any type of aircraft for passenger services.

"Three weekly all-cargo services may also be operated by the carriers of both sides," he said.

More than 40,000 people travelled between Brazil and Australia in the 12 months to October 2005 and the market grew at an average annual rate of over eight per cent between 1999 and 2005. Australia's yearly air freight exports to Brazil are valued at around $42 million.

Mr Truss said that while no airline from either side has immediate plans to initiate scheduled services using their own aircraft, these arrangements put in place a framework that can be built on in future years as the aviation market expands.

"The two countries have agreed on provisions permitting 'code share' arrangements between the airlines of Australia and Brazil. This enables airlines from one country to market tickets on the airlines of the other country.

"I am confident that our aviation arrangements with Brazil will expand in concert with the strengthening of our broader bilateral relationship," Mr Truss said.

Looks like the code-share suggestion by 6thfreefom was pretty close to the mark...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5607 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1443 times:

Quoting QANTASFOREVER (Reply 5):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Question 1 - Why were you listening to Question Time? you were that board?

I think it far stranger that one of my countrymen would question someone taking an interesting in what happens in federal parliament.

I don't want to call you ignorant of the way this country works and of the workings of government, but..

OK, OK. Actually I have a degree & 25 years exprience in Australian politics & public administration and if you think Question Time is in any way shape or form how things actually work in this country, then I am afraid I have very bad news for you! QT is a show put on by the government of the day (both sides) and has nothing to do with anything!

Gemuser



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User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7147 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1416 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
Recently AR also started to operate its flights to AKL/SYD orginating from GRU instead of EZE.

That has been stopped again, it has gone back to just EZE again.


User currently offlineKesflyer From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1365 times:

They may as well have made a deal with Sierra Leone or Nicaragua. No offence to anyone from these countries, however doubt that OZ-BRAZIL would have enough traffic to justify any commercial routes in the foreseeable future.

Just my opinion, however believe the AR route is more than adequate for now.


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3322 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

As I mentioned earlier, this agreement has NOTHING to do with Australian or Brazilian carriers operating between the two countries.

This was the first step to establishing an ASA.

Give it another 12 months, and the Australian authorities will be knocking on the Brazilians door again saying...

"hey guys, how bout we permit 3rd country codeshare arrangements"

as i stated earlier, this will allow QF to codeshare all the way through to brazil. Who nows, Varig or another brazilian carrier may choose to whack its code on AR services... perhaps GOL?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1352 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Would DJ or JQ be interested in this possible route?

User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7147 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
Would DJ or JQ be interested in this possible route?

DJ OOL-AKL-RAR-PPT-IPC-SCL-GRU??


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1319 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 12):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
Would DJ or JQ be interested in this possible route?

DJ OOL-AKL-RAR-PPT-IPC-SCL-GRU??

What about with the DJ long haul operation?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3322 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 11):
Would DJ or JQ be interested in this possible route?

I don't think so. I think it would take an established player to work the sector...

Some ideas:
1.
NZ to enter the market in 2-3 years time, With Varig codeshare. GRU-AKL, with onward feed to Australia.
With NZ operating, and possible air china services to AKL in 2-3 years time, a star alliance CA could also operate PEK-PVG-AKL, then code on NZ's AKL-GRU.

2. Air NZ to codeshare on AR services??

3. A Chinese carrier to operate its own metal all the way through to sth amercica, possibly over AKL, or maybe as a 2-stopper... China-MEL-AKL-Sth America. They'd certainly pick up the MEL market, and NZ to codeshare on the AKL-Sth America sector. This is also the shortest distance from China to Sth America.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1205 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 8):
That has been stopped again, it has gone back to just EZE again.

The flight code keeps at GRU but it's necessary to change planes at EZE. Loads on GRU-EZE for AR are really not so good as JJ/RG. AR need to use better planes on brazilian routes (they keep good numbers on GIG with up to 6 flights on sundays during high season) to compete against Tam A320 and RG B738.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 14):
NZ to enter the market in 2-3 years time, With Varig codeshare. GRU-AKL, with onward feed to Australia.
With NZ operating, and possible air china services to AKL in 2-3 years time, a star alliance CA could also operate PEK-PVG-AKL, then code on NZ's AKL-GRU.

Good idea but it depends on a billateral Brazil-New Zealand. I believe it could be reallity in two years as the number of brazilian students in Australia are growing more than 15% per annum due to the high requirements from US immigration to grant visas.
Also, i believe Brazil-Austrialia/New Zealand trade will face a major increase in the next 2/3 years. A flight to AKL or SYD could also allow better connections to southeast Asia but Emirates is trying to be the number 1 (and probably will be) to run a South America-Asia fast connections route.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 14):
3. A Chinese carrier to operate its own metal all the way through to sth amercica, possibly over AKL, or maybe as a 2-stopper... China-MEL-AKL-Sth America. They'd certainly pick up the MEL market, and NZ to codeshare on the AKL-Sth America sector. This is also the shortest distance from China to Sth America

China already keep rigths for 7 weekly frequencies to Brazil with stops in MUC and full rights on China-MUC & MUC-Brazil. To fly MEL they need to change this, and with all respect to MEL, MUC seems to be a better market (the route is to be operated connecting RG GIG-GRU-MUC).

Very interesting discussion!

Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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