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"Munich Airlines" With L1011 To BDA?  
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Take a look at this (sorry, in German only):

http://www.munich-airlines.de/home.html

Sounds like a strange kind of venuture, trying to fill an L1011 on a weekly flight from MUC to BDA. Is this a hoax/ scam/ virtual airline or is actually someone willing to burn a truckload of money on a unviable route with an ill-suited aircraft?


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5772 times:

WOW, this is strange. Never heard of them. But if you have a closer look at their website it does not look "virtual". The impressum shows:
Industrieflug IPS Air Service GmbH & Co. KG

Flughafen München
General Aviation Terminal
85356 München, Germany
Tel. +49 (89) 315 01 47
Fax +49 (89) 262 19 719
E-Mail: info@MunichAirlines.com

Very interesting. I wonder what they will do with this aircraft the rest of the week.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Maybe it would just be a wetlease, but from whom? I am not so sure if e.g. some of those shady Jordanian operators, which stil fly some old L1011's, are allowed to operate from Germany. Also, ferrying the aircraft to MUC just for a weekly flight sounds like an economic overkill.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

on the website given they claim the following:

  • Using L-1011 with 166 seats only.
  • Airline code I2
  • flights starting 02-JUN-2006
  • Bookings being available on Amadeus (couldn´t find them on Amadeus yet)
  • They state a number of cooperating travel companies.
  • They are a registered company under Geman laws (details are stated)


Overall this looks a bit weird from the operational point of view, but rather professional from a marketing point of view.

As they state by themself, Bermuda is not a very well known market from Germany, I have my personal doubts whether this venture will last for very long ... However I DO wish them all the best of luck !
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
Overall this looks a bit weird from the operational point of view, but rather professional from a marketing point of view.

Seems as if it is a pure marketing gag for Bermudas and Munich Airport.



signature censored by admin - so check my profile
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

IPS Air Service is/ was located at MUC. They are currently operating a single Beech Super King Air.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stefan Cauberg



Seemingly the slots for the weekly service have been requested and already granted.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineBeowulf From Singapore, joined Jul 2003, 735 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

I remember reading that a Salzburg based aircraft charter / pilot school company now owns and leases an L1011. Maybe that's where the a/c comes from.

Here are two links
http://www.bfs.co.at/tristar.htm - BFS is the "owner"
http://www.austrianaviation.net/A050511A.htm
http://www.geocities.com/airlinerhomepage/tristar.html

[Edited 2006-02-14 11:12:35]

User currently offlineGearup380 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 85 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

I believe the route might become a success, considered that BA fills 4 777s per week from LGW and to my knowledge is the only carrier currently linking Europe and BDA. I'm sure that if the price is low enough, the TriStar won't take off with many empty seats.


Excess baggage? Oh come on...
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

With only 166 pax in a L-1011 they must earn a premium yield in order to earn a profit from that flight.

Also:
I2 101 is listed as arriving at BDA at 1650h on Friday, while the return IS 102 leaves from BDA more than 24h later at 1730h on Saturday.

It can be assumed that the a/c will try to do some more work out of BDA in the meantime ... (maybe a quick rotation to either the U.S., Canada or to U.K. ?)
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting Gearup380 (Reply 7):
I believe the route might become a success, considered that BA fills 4 777s per week from LGW and to my knowledge is the only carrier currently linking Europe and BDA. I'm sure that if the price is low enough, the TriStar won't take off with many empty seats.

However, a 166-seat Executive class interior, a maintenance- and fuel-intensive old L1011 and low fares just don't add up.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 953 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 8):
Also:
I2 101 is listed as arriving at BDA at 1650h on Friday, while the return IS 102 leaves from BDA more than 24h later at 1730h on Saturday.

It can be assumed that the a/c will try to do some more work out of BDA in the meantime ... (maybe a quick rotation to either the U.S., Canada or to U.K. ?)
-HT

Or perhaps it's to allow for both crew rest and a reasonable departure time from BDA and arrival time in MUC.

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2397 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

The BFS Tristar was never put on the Austrian register. It is back with Starjet and has since been moved from the Sierra Leone to the Kyrgyzhstan register. The aircraft (now registered EX-089) has done some Hajj flying this season.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 11):
The aircraft (now registered EX-089) has done some Hajj flying this season.

And with this aircraft they want to do flights with "executive" service ??
How old is it ?


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 12):
And with this aircraft they want to do flights with "executive" service ??
How old is it ?

It is unclear, which aircraft will be used. This would just be one possible example.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4696 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5356 times:

Please excuse the bumping of this thread, but the internet webpage of "Munich Airlines" ( http://www.munich-airlines.de/ ) has just been taken offline.

Hmmm... an early April Fool's joke after all?



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineKM732 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 232 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 14):
Please excuse the bumping of this thread, but the internet webpage of "Munich Airlines" ( http://www.munich-airlines.de/ ) has just been taken offline.

This link: http://www.munich-airlines.de/home.html is still fully working though  Wink!

Best regards,

STEFAN


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 14):
Hmmm... an early April Fool's joke after all?

I definetly don't think it's a joke. The 2-letter code is loaded in all GDS and the flights are displayed in Sabre with only "C" class. But they still don't show an availability.
Fares are also still not loaded.

This is much too expensive for a joke.


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5111 times:

I thought there was an interview with the BDA tourism chief Dr Brown that this bird would jump to the states...though a smaller airport...and then return. Could BDA give this carrier 5th freedom rights to carry local traffic to/from the states?

User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5083 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 17):
Could BDA give this carrier 5th freedom rights to carry local traffic to/from the states?

I guess they could....but it needs two for that.....


User currently offlineTXKF2010 From Bermuda, joined Nov 2005, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5076 times:

I dont know about the aircraft details but it is true that a germany airline or something of the sort will be coming to Bermuda from Germany this summer


...Rastafari Stands Alone...
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

I would say that a L-1011-500 with 166 business class seat would be a very nice fit MUC to BDA.

User currently offlineHAM From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

The flights might not be on sale separately, only in holiday packages. There are those packages available: http://www.world-travel.net/preise/bermuda/ber.htm only in german, sorry. found it through google.

User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

The website posted by HAM in #21 has more figures:
166 seats in "Bermuda" (Business class seats with an exclusive service) PLUS 58 seats in "Bermuda Gold" (Business class seats with a VIP service).

Feeder flights into MUC are bookable on DI.

Calculated from the stated prices for a package tour and extra weeks, the price for flight incl. transfer is 1680 EUR.
"Bermuda Gold" is listed with a supplemental 97 EUR only.

With a fare of 1680 EUR (minus a couple of EUR that will stay at the travel agency and for "transfer" at BDA), and 166+58=224 pax it might be financially viable for the airline, if the leasing rates are low and fuelprices don´t go up (the L-1011 consumes quite an amount of fuel ...).
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

Quoting HAM (Reply 21):
http://www.world-travel.net/preise/bermuda/ber.htm only in german, sorry. found it through google.

From the PDF:
"Luxury for less" … stilvoll reisen in Business Class
Bermuda Class, stilvoll reisen mit 166 Business- Class Sitze. Exklusiver Bord Service, feine Speisen und Getränke.
Bermuda Gold Class, exklusive 58 Business Class Sitze Kabine. VIP- Bord Service, erlesene Speisen und Getränke.


which would make a more likely total of 224 seats


Munich Airlines - I2 / Bermuda Class: Z / Bermuda Gold: A / AMADEUS: RP/AGBL1211G
DI - L - Class 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 EUR194
DI - K - Class 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 EUR243
Hochsaison Zuschlag für Abflüge im Zeitraum Hochsaison 17.Jul.06 03.Sep.06 EUR121
Bermuda Gold Class (A) Aufpreis 02.Jun.06 31.Okt.06 97 64


User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 22):
With a fare of 1680 EUR (minus a couple of EUR that will stay at the travel agency and for "transfer" at BDA), and 166+58=224 pax it might be financially viable for the airline

This might be OK for the airline, but not for the passenger (at least not for many of them). Imagine a fare of 1680 to BDA ! The lowest BA fare ex MUC is around 680 Euro. OK, business starts at 2800.

I would definetly prefer BAs WT plus class for 1115 Euro. There I can fly every day, stay 7,8,10 days (not 7 or 14 or 21) and fly with 777 instead of a L1011.

I am sure - IF they start - they will have to lower the fare between the 680 and those 1115 soon otherwise they go empty. (if the go...)


25 A342 : 224 business class seats in a Tristar ? What definition of "business class" do these guys have ? I´d be very surprised to see this airline really tak
26 474218 : One of Lockheed early cabin layouts for the L-1011 was for 256 passengers. 52 First Class and 204 Coach. There were 9 rows in first class, 6 abreast (
27 AMSSFO : From A/C data at a.net: L1011-500: Max seating for 330 in a single class 10 abreast layout at 76cm (30in) pitch. Typical two class seating for 24 pre
28 474218 : T a.net A/C data is incorrect. The L-1011-500 is certified for a maximum of 315 passengers. The L-1011-1 thru -250 can seat up to 400 passengers if th
29 Post contains links and images TriStar500 : What's the price for a used L1011-500 (I assume, it will be one of them because of the -524B engines, which are more widely supported than the old -22
30 A342 : I´d rather call it Premium-Y, nowadays longhaul business class is about 60in pitch, and, in case of the Tristar, would have 7 or 6-abreast.
31 Post contains images Birdwatching : Repair it? Soren
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