Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 24 Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9216 times:
No word yet on network expansion.
-Aaron G.
Hawaiian Airlines Announces Wide-Body Fleet Expansion
Tuesday February 14, 8:00 am ET
HONOLULU, Feb. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Hawaiian Airlines (Amex: HA; PCX) announced today that it has signed letters of intent to acquire four additional Boeing 767-300 aircraft, which will bring its long-haul fleet to a total of 18 of the wide-body aircraft. The company expects to introduce these aircraft into service after necessary modification work has been completed. The expected dates of introduction and the additional services these aircraft will operate will be announced at a later date.
"This expansion is great news for our company, our employees -- especially those we will be able to recall from furlough -- and for Hawaii tourism," said Mark Dunkerley, president and chief executive officer.
The four 767-300 aircraft Hawaiian will acquire were previously operated by Delta Airlines, which rejected its leases on the aircraft in conjunction with its ongoing Chapter 11 reorganization. Each will be overhauled and outfitted in Hawaiian's standard interior configuration, including 18 seats in First Class and 242 seats in Coach. The letters of intent are subject to certain closing conditions.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9099 times:
Since this is Hawaiian we are talking about, I assume these are really B-767-300ERs, and not B-767-300s like the artical says. DL flys both types.
How many other airplanes, and what types will DL return to lease holders?
Has TZ given up on trying to find GE equipped B-767-300ERs? Or have they settled on completing "D" checks on all of their L-1011-500?
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4111 posts, RR: 39 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9079 times:
Suppose they have learned from their Chapter 11 experience that it does not necessarily make sense to order shiny new planes every year. Their 767s are mostly quite young, and there shouldn't be any real need for them to order the 787 or 350 anytime soon - and there will be quite a few 767s available in the coming years.
Still, if it happens their choice will depend on how the market itself has and will develop. Stronger growth will be a plus for the slightly larger A350, less growth for the 787. And we shouldn't forget that quite some bc exit financing came from Boeing Capital IIRC.
BR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8945 times:
Which of Hawaiian's 767s are new/were acquired new directly from Boeing... If I remember correctly, it was 580-582 and 587-595... But I just wanted to be sure.
GoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8870 times:
Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 5): I thought these 763's that Delta gave back were non -ER versions. Can anyone confirm this? I think they are all sitting in VCV right now.
That was my thought, too, but I don't know for sure. The 4230nm range of the non-ERs should be plenty for their west coast destinations. It could still free-up ERs for longer range destinations.
So, any ideas if the expansion will be on the west coast to already served markets, new markets in the west, or new markets in the midwest, south, or east coast?
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
B6sea From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8818 times:
Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 7): So, any ideas if the expansion will be on the west coast to already served markets, new markets in the west, or new markets in the midwest, south, or east coast?
I've heard talk of JFK and ORD, but I personally think you'll see more asia routes (KIX, NGO, HKG, NRT-probably no way they'll get slots). Or MEL is a possibility. I know some people who went to Australia last summer on HA from SEA and just transferred in HNL, said it was a decent flight and better than transferring in LAX, so maybe they have a small niche in Transpac. flights.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4554 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8737 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): Has TZ given up on trying to find GE equipped B-767-300ERs? Or have they settled on completing "D" checks on all of their L-1011-500?
I don't think that this is an either/or situation. I'm pretty sure that the latest from ATA is that one of their 5 L1011s (the non-500, 194AT) is being retired Feb. 28, as it has the old engines (-22B) which are not widely available. Two of the -500s should be good to go for some time, having just been D-checked (one of those, 163AT, should be finishing up the D-check and back shortly if it isn't already). The other two have some time before this will become an issue for them. I believe that if ATA can find one or more 767-300ERs at a price that works for them, they will lease them rather than D-check any more L1011s.
Bluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3139 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 8612 times:
That is great news for HA! Guess the reg#s will be N594HA - N597HA?
This will be a great opportunity for HA to re-instate the red-eye to LAX, which discontinued; and increased frequencies to other cities as well.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
LN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1896 posts, RR: 15 Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8506 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 12): Why, prices on 767's in the used marked should be headed down as they are retired from other carriers in chap 11....like Delta.
Not all that many 763ER's on the market ...
But if ATA ever lands any, your assumption will at that point be correct!
C680 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 531 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8399 times:
HA is being smart here. Most normal folks are concerned about the fare more than anything else. The non -ER 767-300 planes are perfect for HA's west coast flights, and I'm sure the price was right. Who needs brand new iron when there are excellent planes on the secondary market? Besides, 4000+ nm is still a very long range. We have just gotten accustomed to seeing super long range planes being made by Boeing and Airbus.
From the looks of it, the 763 works well for HA.
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 2221 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAS (36°04'49"N 115°09'08"W) 2400 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 3318 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 3688 nm
Boeing 767-300 Range 4230 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 4330 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 4403 nm
Boeing 767-300ER range 5500 nm
Heck, most trans-Atlantic runs are less than 4000 nm!
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) CDG (49°00'35"N 02°32'52"E) 3355 nm
JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) LHR (51°28'39"N 00°27'41"W) 2999 nm
ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) FRA (50°01'35"N 08°32'35"E) 3774 nm
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21028 posts, RR: 60 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8285 times:
These planes could fly anywhere in their route system except SYD and ORD/BOS/NYC if they were to start one of those.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
HALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1324 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 8183 times:
Some answers to your questions.
Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 4): Which of Hawaiian's 767s are new/were acquired new directly from Boeing... If I remember correctly, it was 580-582 and 587-595... But I just wanted to be sure.
Your list is almost correct. Hawaiian never took delivery of AC 594-595. A decision with deep regret by management.
Quoting Avi8tir (Reply 5): I thought these 763's that Delta gave back were non -ER versions. Can anyone confirm this?
You are correct. The 767's that HA will acquire are not ER versions.
Quoting Flydl2atl (Reply 6): If I recall Delta has 4 Non-ER 767s that have P&W engines...different from there other 24. I believe these are the 4 that HA is picking up.
Hawaiian is getting 4 767's with G.E. engines and not the P&W engines that all of our other 767's have. As our CEO has told the employees in a memo today, beggars can't be choosers!
Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 11): This will be a great opportunity for HA to re-instate the red-eye to LAX, which discontinued; and increased frequencies to other cities as well.
Absolutely! Although the redeye to LAX has already been reinstated. Currently it runs just 3 or 4 days per week but with the addition of 4 more airplanes to the fleet, look for that flight to go daily as well as increasing service on HNL-SEA double daily and a daily SAN-OGG and a few surprises thrown in.
This is GREAT news for HA. To all of our furlough employees out there, welcome back!!!
Trvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 8114 times:
It will be good to finally see SAN-OGG go daily year-round. Given the fare structure and loads on the daily SAN-HNL service, I wonder if a second daily is not out of the question.
As far as "surprises" go, I wonder if HA will make a go of the Asian market.
Vegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7803 times:
Quoting B6sea (Reply 9): I know some people who went to Australia last summer on HA from SEA and just transferred in HNL, said it was a decent flight and better than transferring in LAX, so maybe they have a small niche in Transpac. flights.
That really is a strategy that HA should try to exploit more often, HNL is a nice stopping point on a trans-pac flight, for those of us who can't deal with 10-12 flights. This would work well with their existing route system from US West Coast to HA Islands and beyond to Australia/Asia etc. Incremental revenue never hurts.
B6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 813 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7516 times:
this is awsome news! hopefully we'll see added service to SAN either an additional frequency to HNL or a year round SAN-OGG flight.
but here's a question for those i'm sure has answers for...
Hawaii in general has great loads to/from: asia, south pacific, and US/Canada...but what about Mexico and S. America? I remember years back (i'm thinking more in the late 80's) that i saw a Mexicana DC-10 in HNL (gold stripes along the fusulage w/ black titles). Did MX have non-stop service to HNL? was it a continuation flight to Asia/Oz?
Will HA ever return to GUM (Guam) or AKL?
pretty much the possibilities are endless. i love working our SAN and SMF flights cause HA is there already when we land and i get to see Pualani!
Gt1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 133 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 7398 times:
I'm gonna guess DL ship #'s 116, 118, 119, and either 117 or 120. All these aircraft are non-ER, 345,000 lb MTOW, CF6-80A2 engines. I believe they will need to be modified for 180 Min. ETOPS
GoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6991 times:
Quoting HALFA (Reply 16): Hawaiian is getting 4 767's with G.E. engines and not the P&W engines that all of our other 767's have.
Quoting Gt1 (Reply 21): I believe they will need to be modified for 180 Min. ETOPS
Ouch, either HA got them real cheap or they were desperate for new aircraft. They sound like they will be a lot of extra work.
Quoting HALFA (Reply 16): look for that flight [LAX redeye] to go daily as well as increasing service on HNL-SEA double daily and a daily SAN-OGG and a few surprises thrown in.
Screw that! Come East. The west coast has plenty of opportunities to get to Hawaii. We don't!
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
Leothedog From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6827 times:
Quoting C680 (Reply 14): From the looks of it, the 763 works well for HA.
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'29"W) 2221 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) LAS (36°04'49"N 115°09'08"W) 2400 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) NRT (35°45'53"N 140°23'11"E) 3318 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 3688 nm
Boeing 767-300 Range 4230 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 4330 nm
HNL (21°19'07"N 157°55'21"W) SYD (33°56'46"S 151°10'38"E) 4403 nm
Boeing 767-300ER range 5500 nm
What about HNL - SMF? *Don't want my fair city to be left out*
PanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 223 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6748 times:
Quoting Trvlr (Reply 17): As far as "surprises" go, I wonder if HA will make a go of the Asian market.
I can't say that I'd be too surprised to see HA try to make a jump in the Japanese market. Given the vast amount of traffic between Japan and Hawaii, I can't imagine that they wouldn't be able to at least pull off NRT or KIX a few times a week. It'll certainly be interesting to see where they end up deploying these aircraft, and if they do indeed use them to open up new markets.
Nick
25 Mkirch72: I would really love to see HA come to the East Coast. I really enjoy their product and service and, if they could handle the range, much prefer 10-11
26 Carpethead: I doubt HA will get slots at NRT, but service has been cut to FUK & KIX and possibly CTS & SDJ used to have direct links to HNL.
27 PanAm747LHR: I agree that it would be good to see HA on the East Coast. I know that CO enjoys very good loads year round on CO14/15 - their non-stop EWR-HNL run. H
28 PanAm747: I have always thought that Hawaiian could pull a lot of west coast traffic to Asia (in addition to its O&D passengers) if they could present HNL as a
29 TK787: Man, this plane name is as good as "Kamanawanaleiu"
30 Centrair: Maybe NGO, but we are already kind of over kill with 1 JL 747 and 1 CO 767. I don't think there is the market left here, but it would be nice to have
32 Ha763: I was hoping that the 4 aircraft would have the large front cargo door, because the small cargo door plays havoc for cargo planning and loading. It su
33 Ikramerica: The new york market could support two daily 767 flights to HNL, one on CO out of EWR and one on HA out of JFK. New York is a giant market, and many pe
34 N1120A: Any plans on returning to the LAX-OGG route? That is a big hole in their network
35 B6FA4ever: with the whole JFK talk...is there a possibility if/when HA does start JFK they may codeshare w/ American Eagle for connections throughout new england
36 Tbear815: Any possible stopover in Hawai'i from the US to the South Pacific/Asia would be incredible for the Hawai'ian tourism figures. If pax can make the stop
37 PSA727: I'm sure these aircraft will be used on runs to California so that those AC could be used for opening-up new, longer-distance markets. To me, Asia and
38 Tbear815: PSA727 and I must have been thinking the same thoughts and writing at the same time. Obviously, great minds work alike. As noted, PSA727 and I share a
39 PSA727: Thanks Tbear815 for the compliment. It's a nice change to have something nice said about one's opinion here at A.net. Have you ever tried to say somet
40 Ikramerica: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2483296 everyone really got on my case for suggesting CO could do the same thing, a
41 HA_DC9: Good to see some more 767s coming to HA. I hope HA goes for the 767 Enhanced Interior package since these birds will be overhauled and reconfigured.
42 Coronado990: I'd like to see a HNL-SAN-MIA flight...ahhh paradise to paradise to paradise!
43 Planemanofnz: I am hoping AKL. There is alot of tlk that NZ will be pulling out of HNL shortly or re-routing the flight through RAR/NAN or APW. If this happens I d
44 Tbear815: PSA727 - One always hears the complaints, never the compliments. You in the hotel industry know that to be a fact. If HA were to fly international pax
46 Laxintl: HA currently already does rather unsuccessfully offer free stopovers and even occasionally throw in free interisland flights for people willing to st
47 727EMflyer: By goodness yes! I fly between HNL and GUM several times a year, and CO1/2 is ALWAYS full. Guam could really use some additional service, if not for
48 Bluewave 707: N584HA to N586HA are ex-LTU 763s (-3G5ERs to be exact). Compared to the other 763s in HA's fleet ... these 3 seem old. One good thing will come out of
49 DCAYOW: It appears the normally seasonal SAN-OGG has already been loaded through the winter months on www.hawaiianair.com. The nonstop SAN-OGG does not end in
50 Jcavinato: HA, Asia/North America. There is an opportunity for them like Singapore Airlines does with $1 stopover hotel nights for ongoing passengers. I've done
51 DFORCE1: Would we ever see Hawaiian servicing YVR?
52 Ikramerica: Well, LAXINTL (name, ahem, name), please show me the nonstops from SAN to the south pacific? Atlanta? ORD? MIA? IAD? EWR? LAS? etc... And HNL is not
53 Mbm3: How about adding CLE to the list and expanding the CO code share agreement to garner east coast feeder flights? Hey - a man can dream can't he?
54 Coronado990: Amen to that one! After DL pulled their SAN-HNL non-stops in 1995, it took me 5 years of letter writing and calling our HA rep in L.A. to get them to
55 HAVIK747: Does anyone know what specific a/c HA is obtaining? rumour is new route HNL-oak as well
56 N1120A: First, no airplane currently built or in planning will be able to make it out of SAN and down to the South Pacific, but the SAN market lives close en
57 Laxintl: In your original post above you stated "to asia/pacific" traffic, and that is what I was responding to. Certainly the majority of South Pacific traff
58 Tuffer: How about service to YYC? Couple flights a week might work....not too much competition only Harmony with their 2 weekly flights in the winter.
59 HALFA: It's actually no surprise that HA has intentions of starting service to Asia. They are aggressively seeking route authority to begin service to China
60 Dia77: DEN-HNL seems like a logical move for HA. With only one daily flight on that route, I imagine that there is definitely room for competition.
61 GoCOgo: Hey, man, I'm dreaming the same thing, but it ain't happenin', I'm sorry to say. Though with an expanded CO codeshare and some appropriate advertisin
62 Hawaiian717: There are actually 4 ex-LTU 767s at Hawaiian, N583HA to N587HA.
63 AA767400: Can an airline reconfigure a 767 with the new Boeing interior? I have not seen anything on it as of yet.
64 HA_DC9: Today's Honolulu Advertiser states that HA will spend $31.8 million to buy these jets. I would have figured that they would have assumed the leases th
65 Wedgetail737: Yeah! I would be surprised if HA opened the OAK-HNL route. Don't forget that Suntrips also does OAK-HNL with 757's, along with AQ and, soon, TZ. I've
66 777fan: $7.9M a piece?! That sounds like a great deal to me. Best of luck to HA - they've certainly impressed me with their interisland service.
67 LTU932: That is correct. Here are the first delivery dates of these aircraft, along with the younger N581LF:N584HA (24258/255), delivered to LTU Süd as D-AM
68 BeachBoy: The article states: "Each [aircraft] will be overhauled and outfitted in Hawaiian's standard interior configuration," so what is that? Are they planni
69 Centrair: There is the population and didn't Philippine Airlines just shift its stopover on MNL-LAX to GUM so that passengers are not having to wake up in the
70 HALFA: We practically do! HA operates 2 flights daily HNL-LAS, and LAS-HNL, except for Tuesdays when only 1 roundtrip is operated. #18 HNL-LAS 1540-2305 Dai
71 HA_DC9: I totally agree. I travel on HA to LAS frequently (just came back this past weekend on HA17). Most of the flights I took looked to be at full capacit
72 LTU932: LT and leather seats on their 767s, when did that happen? When I flew on one of their 767s in 1991, they didn't have any leather seats in economy (I
73 HALFA: When the 4 Ex-LTU aircraft came to HA, they all had leather seats in Y class, and still do. Seats in F class are leather too. Aloha, HALFA
74 LTU932: Ah OK, now I see. It must probably have been some kind of cabin refurbishing that was done when they were still at LTU, most likely when they were in
75 Cslusarc: Can anyone here identify the four 763s that HA is going to acquire? what are their registration nos./contruction nos./line nos.?
76 Str8fromthe808: this is great news... i usually fly on HA transpac about 4 or 5x a year and really like the leather seats on the old LTU planes...the only thing i don
77 Unicorn: A significant number of the original 767-300ER fleet were never delivered direct from Boeing. The aircraft were delivered from the manufacturer to AWA
78 Laxintl: I believe they are going to be N116DL, N117DL, N118DL, N119DL which are parked in VCV and were in the process of being rejected by Delta in its Ch11
79 Wjcandee: You know, here's the thing: markets are cyclical. Institutional lenders and lessors know this. It's hard for the executives involved not to take some
80 Unicorn: to quote Wjcandee "So while it's possible that some people behaved that way, I assure you that others did not. None of them would allow past anger to
81 Wjcandee: Unicorn, you make good points. Of course, the market generally for a particular airframe affects the lessor's risk, perhaps as much as the creditworth
82 HALFA: He also makes terrible ones. He fails to mention the significant effects of 9/11 on the airline industry. As we all know, after the events of 9/11, t
83 Havik747: The DL aircraft will be DL763s not ERs w/GE engines; HA will retrofit to accomodate 180 ETOPS operations; however they will not be considered ERs and
84 Hawaiian717: This is the second time this aircraft has come up in this thread. It is not at Hawaiian. It may have been earmarked for HA, but didn't go to them. Lo
85 LTU932: I stand corrected. Just checked airfleets.net and it confirms that it is EI-CXO. There are also some pictures of it in the database. I didn't count D
86 Unicorn: A few points. In reverse order. The aircraft that went to Blue Panorama (EI-CXO) is I believe the Boeing Commercial Capital aircraft that Hawaiian rej
87 HALFA: Unicorn, It's really difficult to take anything you have to say seriously because your facts are so awry. I never said that only the US Airline indust
88 Unicorn: Well HALFA, if you are a flight attendent with Hawaiian, then I expect you know damn near nothing about the negotiations that took place between the l
89 Str8fromthe808: And my tax dollars pay for crack addict moms with four kids on welfare, so what. In any successful business model there is planned delinquency or non
90 Ha763: Who then filed claims in the bankruptcy courts to recoup the losses. See the following excerpt from an article from the Honolulu Star-Bulletin: http:
91 B767400ER: Going off track just a little bit and I may get burned for this so I'm asking NICELY for a confirmation from those who may know it. My cousin is a mec
92 Socal: Very good news, am glad the airline is doing well. I hope they can add flights to the Southern California area.
93 Ha763: This is a couple of years old. HA did look at the ex-SAS ones, but didn't get any. Probably due to the lease rates. Since the 4 ex-DL ones are non-ER
94 Laxintl: http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060217/1230335.html?.v=2 Some exerpts; Hawaiian expansion will take time Friday February 17, Hawaiian Airlines told its empl
95 RayChuang: I think if the planes are in good condition and given a full D-check overhaul (including full ETOPS 180-certified equipment) they will be primarily us
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