A346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
I don't think the final investigation is complete yet, but weather was an obvious factor from the start.
Transport Canada seems to be treating the jump-seater as a concern unrelated to the accident itself, but I am wondering if the fact that someone was discovered to have been illegally jump-seating will have any implications for enthusiasts.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
The article also points out that:
The airport fire dept. didn't have info of hazardous o2 bottles, and so on for several model aircraft, including the A340; that it was illegal for any non-employee jumpseater after 9/11 in the USA or Canada; that one of the emergency doors was opened as the a/c rolled at the end of the runway, that the pilot's seat was ripped from it's floor mounts and other tidbits of info.
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
If the captain allows for a civilian to jumpseat, it's his call obviously, however depending on the type of admin you have at your airline, it may be "frowned" upon because it is bending rules in the FOM.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3301 times:
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 2): But i always thought that the Captain was incharge of the aircraft, so if he gave a civilian the right to sit in a Jumpseat, then it's OK. Any thoughts?
The captain is in charge of the aircraft, but must abide by company SOP's and regulations pertaining to the operating certificate of the aircraft, where the aircraft is flying, etc. It is just as illegal for there to be a civilian in the jumpseat, as it is illegal for passengers to smoke on board. Think of it this way, if a passenger is caught smoking on board an aircraft, a flight attendant brings this up to the captain, and the captain says "it's my airplane, go ahead and smoke another" does it make it legal?
It's silly and unfortunate that civilians can't occupy the jumpseat in North America, but it's a fact that lots of people on airliners.net still don't believe.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2727 times:
A few weeks ago I asked the crew of a 763 if I could checkout the cockpit inflight (It was an US outbound flight to SouthAmerica). 45 min before landing, he told me to go inside (I was flying in J class, which I think made it easier). It was a nice gesture from him, and as a a.netter, tried to take some pix, but he in a very polite way, asked me not to, bc of the company's regulations. Anyway, when the FO began descent, I told him that I it was the right time to get back to my seat, at which to my surprise, he said that I could stick in the cockpit all the way to the gate...............GREAT. Trust me, stayed there as quiet and still as human possible. Great experience, mainly bc the FO was in charge of the ac and the captain explained to me all the landing details in real time. Hope I didn't broke any rules, but I never thought I had the chance to do that after 9/11.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
Positiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
To quote the article: "It used to be routine for airlines to also give the seat to off-duty staff and passengers on full flights, a practice all but banned in Canada and the United States after 9/11, when cockpit doors were reinforced and locked to prevent a repetition of the terrorist hijackings."
AMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 8): I have no problems with airline employees sitting up there, especially if its for an educational purpose. But just any person....thats just asking for a distraction.
what about relatives of employees?
from the article: a non-crew passenger, related to an Air France employee, occupied the jump seat throughout the flight.....
An Air France spokesman said the company allows passengers who are related to and travelling with an airline employee to sit in the jump seat. But it is up to the captain to approve the cockpit visitor, said the spokesman, who asked not to be named.
This part is a bigger cause of concern IMO: One Transport Canada report also points to some glaring omissions in Pearson's copy of the "E.R.S. Aircraft Crash Chart" -- a booklet of blueprints for different planes, used by firefighters to safely respond to accidents...
Also, many of the pages appeared to be out of order, making the document "unnecesarily difficult" to use, the report said.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8060 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
Quoting Tguman (Reply 14): Tranlation please, so that all who don't speak french may enjoy the comment.
Dude, you're Canadian. Why don't you translate it for us non-French speaking nations? (HikesWithEyes - an American of all people - is exactly right, "Captain, should we really try to land in this storm?" Haha.)
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Tundra767 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2005, 430 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2416 times:
Traveling with AF crew friends I have flown in the cockpit many times on AF. On a few departures and arrivals into and out of the US and into and out of CDG. It is a great thing AF allows nonrev and crew companions to do this. As a flight attendant I really appreciate every oppertunity to fly up there as it allows one to see first hand what is going on.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2320 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4): that it was illegal for any non-employee jumpseater after 9/11 in the USA or Canada
For US carriers yes. Non US carriers, depends on the airline. I've done it more times than I can count on AeroMexico, in and out of the US...it's up to the country of origin, the airline, then the Captain.
Quoting Captaingomes (Reply 7): The captain is in charge of the aircraft, but must abide by company SOP's and regulations pertaining to the operating certificate of the aircraft, where the aircraft is flying, etc
Has nothing to do with where they're flying, or the OC for that matter.