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What Will Become Of JFK AA After New Terminal?  
User currently offlineAEroc From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

My question is will there be a change in the way AA flys wout of JFK once the new terminal is done? Will AA aid any routes or replace AE on routes like JFK-ORD? Will AE add any new routes? AE to place where they use to be the dominate carrier....JFK-BUF, JFK-ROC, JFK-SYR, JFK-PIT, JFK-MDT, JFK-PVD, JFK-BDL, JFK-MDT......Will these routes ever be reutilized by AA,AE? I would love to think so......I would hate to fly BUG,ROC,SYR-JFK on B6 and have to claim my bags to transfer to AA and fly to SJU. Lets bring back AA on these routes!!!!!!! Any thoughts?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

I really hope AE does that, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

The project scope has been scaled down dramatically, the Sq ft of the Terminal and the number of gates will be less than when the project was launched in 1999. When complete the new Terminal will have 35-39 gates, it was originally envisioned to have 55 gates. Most of the gates that will not be built were to be for Eagle, the difference between 1999 and 2006 is that B6 dominates the Domestic routes from JFK.

Jetblue's gains are AA and DL's loss, same thing is happening in Boston where DL built a new terminal that they now cannot fill.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2017 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

The original design of the terminal called for two concourses just for American Eagle. As STT757 said, those were chopped out of the design (although I'm sure they could eventually be built someday, if demand ever reached that point). Eagle flights will now be handled out of 3-4 gates on the "island" concourse which opened last fall.

I'm not sure what American's strategy on shorthaul routes from JFK will be. At one point they did offer service (mostly through Eagle) on routes to New England and upstate New York, although a lot of that has been cut or reduced. If they beef up international flying from JFK, they might bring back some routes to feed the overseas flights. LGA is just down the road, however, and a lot of shorthaul customers tend to prefer it since it's closer to the city.

Here in Chicago we're finally getting a JFK-ORD service on American Eagle... I've always wanted to see JFK, but it's been frustrating since all of American's flights go into LaGuardia. I doubt JFK-ORD will ever be converted to mainline... it's meant as a feeder flight for boutique international services like JFK-ZRH that aren't flown nonstop from Chicago.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 3):
it's meant as a feeder flight for boutique international services like JFK-ZRH that aren't flown nonstop from Chicago.

And the tons of other boutique international services from JFK...There are many international airlines that only serve one or two airports in the US, and most of the time one of them is JFK.


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

American Eagle's big passel of 1990's regional flights to JFK, like the new ORD-JFK Eagle flights noted by Jsnww81, were primarily feeder flights for American's international services. Eagle also operated regional flights from Upstate to more-desirable LGA for O & D traffic, especially business traffic to Manhattan.

Given these factors, it seems to me unlikely that JetBlue's service would have impacted traffic on the JFK Eagle flights. At the time Eagle ended the services (2001), JetBlue pax from Upstate could have connected to Florida (non-MIA, on which AA was not a major player from Upstate) and transcons. AA's transcon traffic from Upstate would presumably connect through ORD, not JFK. And JetBlue wasn't then serving the Caribbean, so they would not have been a factor there. Perhaps 9/11 reduced international connecting traffic enough to make running high-cost RJ's or even Saabs to Upstate unprofitable.

A few years ago my parents flew JetBlue from ROC to JFK to catch an Air France flight to CDG. Even before AirTrain, they found the connection easy and convenient. JetBlue even put them on an earlier flight to ROC because they cleared customs at T1 so quickly.

Regarding LaGuardia, US Airways seems to have won the battle for the O & D business pax, since they alone fly nonstop from Upstate to LGA. (I thought I heard rumors of Eagle returning to LGA-BUF, but searches of AA's website for March, June, and July show no nonstops).

Now, of course, JetBlue is a factor in the Caribbean. AA apparently would need to capture more Upstate-Europe traffic than they could get until 2001, to get high enough yields to justify restoring JFK-Upstate Eagle flights. I don't think it's likely, unless AA expands its Europe flights at JFK substantially.

I think Upstate-MIA Eagle flights to feed Latin America services are more likely.
The CR7's to DFW seem to be holding their own just fine at ROC, BUF, and SYR. As with DFW, AA could play to a strength by introducing MIA.

Jim

[Edited 2006-02-15 20:59:24]

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5):
Eagle also operated regional flights from Upstate to more-desirable LGA for O & D traffic, especially business traffic to Manhattan.

Prior to the BEX purchase of 1999, Eagle did not fly from upstate markets to LGA for most, if not all, of the 1990s, and perhaps ever. I don't remember them ever flying from LGA to Upstate NY, but if they did, it certainly was not anytime after about the early to mid 1990s, IINM.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5):
Given these factors, it seems to me unlikely that JetBlue's service would have impacted traffic on the JFK Eagle flights.

JetBlue's service had an enormous impact on Eagle's JFK-Upstate flights. JetBlue severaly undercut the AA/Eagle fares in Upstate-JFK-Florida/Transcon markets, and provided a much better service flying 150-seat A320s with leather seats and satellite TV up against Eagle's tiny SAABs. Granted, JetBlue's entry into the upstate markets was not the only thing that led to Eagle dropping the routes, but I'd say it was probably 95% of it. Up against JetBlue, Eagle (and AA in general) stood absolutely no chance.

The later retrentchment of Eagle from other JFK regional routes (like ALB, BDL, PVD, etc.) was tied more to AA's severe economic hardship in the 2002-2003 period, and the declining yields on the JFK Eagle flights because of a significant drop off in international demand, which had previously helped fill some of the JFK Eagle routes with higher-yielding connecting passengers. In addition, as Eagle transitioned all of its SAABs out of the Northeast network to consolidate them in the DFW and LAX divisions, Eagle resorted to flying Embraers on incredibly short flights like JFK-ALB/BDL/PVD. On very short stagelengths like that, the relatively high-casm RJs would have been unprofitable at just about any fare levels. In addition, the SAAB maintenance base Eagle had operated in ALB for many years was closed in the 2002-2003 period, reducing AA's need to get planes into ALB from the BOS/JFK-based Northeastern network for maintenance work.

[Edited 2006-02-15 21:00:50]

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4488 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3785 times:

Prior to the BEX purchase of 1999, Eagle did not fly from upstate markets to LGA for most, if not all, of the 1990s, and perhaps ever. I don't remember them ever flying from LGA to Upstate NY, but if they did, it certainly was not anytime after about the early to mid 1990s, IINM.

Thank you for catching this. The BEX services operated for Delta before the AA purchase, I momentarily forgot that the Eagle purchase was that late in time. At JFK, they fed Delta's service. But regional a/c service from Upstate to JFK to feed a major carrier had been going on throughout the 1990's.

JetBlue's service had an enormous impact on Eagle's JFK-Upstate flights. JetBlue severaly undercut the AA/Eagle fares in Upstate-JFK-Florida/Transcon markets, and provided a much better service flying 150-seat A320s with leather seats and satellite TV up against Eagle's tiny SAABs. Granted, JetBlue's entry into the upstate markets was not the only thing that led to Eagle dropping the routes, but I'd say it was probably 95% of it. Up against JetBlue, Eagle (and AA in general) stood absolutely no chance.

I thought that at the time; if you're correct then it is true. The reason I thought otherwise is that according to the factors I mentioned, it seemed to me that the two airlines in 2001 would have been serving different destination markets even though they were flying the same nonstop route.

In the late '90s, US and Delta were the largest players in the Upstate-Florida markets, mostly through connecting flights. They would have offered far more flight-connection time-pairs, especially US with multiple East Coast hubs and focus operations, than Eagle could with its four or five JFK dailies. That's why I figured Eagle likely wouldn't be impacted by JetBlue's role in those markets.

But if AA *was* flying pax from Upstate to Florida through JFK at the time--and you're in a better position to know than I--then yes, JetBlue would have had a significant impact for Eagle on Upstate-JFK. Also, if there was some O & D that would have been affected by JetBlue too. For the reasons I listed above I figured there probably was little O & D, but if you have reason to think otherwise, please let us know.

Jim

[Edited 2006-02-15 22:38:22]

[Edited 2006-02-15 22:51:42]

User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3382 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3768 times:

Here's the deal with Eagle and JFK:

Eagle will have 9 RJ gates at JFK when all is said and done. They have 4 right now. At the old T9, they had 3 gates. With that said, there will be a significant increase in flying from JFK moving forward.

In the last several months, Eagle added ORD, YYZ, CLE, and BWI to JFK. Those new cities are in addition to BOS, YUL, YHZ, DCA, and RDU. They are all timed to meet int'l connections.

Funny thing is that unlike DL, AA has three connecting banks to int'l flights at JFK.

Mid Morning: connects to Europe, the Carib, and NRT.

Mid afternoon/Early Evening: Connects to Europe and Carib

Late Evening: Europe and S. America.

The flights that are added will be timed to connect to one or all of the banks.
Cities like BWI and CLE only connect to the Europe bank well.

I doubt you will see Eagle flights from LGA or JFK to upstate NY. Besides B6, US has it covered out of LGA and EWR has it covered out of EWR.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3722 times:

Quoting AEroc (Thread starter):
would hate to fly BUG,ROC,SYR-JFK on B6 and have to claim my bags to transfer to AA and fly to SJU. Lets bring back AA on these routes!!!!!!! Any thoughts?

Heh, why not just fly B6 the whole way?

N


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2017 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3684 times:

On a somewhat JFK-terminal-related note, has anyone had a chance to check out the new book "Recapturing the Dream" by Mark Blacklock? It's a VERY detailed architectural review of every JFK terminal constructed between 1950 and the present. There are hundreds of pictures in there that I've *never* seen before, including individual descriptions of each of the airline departure stations at the IAB. The "old" American terminal is covered in detail, and there are writeups of the new AA and B6 terminals currently under construction as well.

I received my copy a few weeks ago and haven't been able to put it down since. For airport history geeks like me, it's one of the best books I've come across. Highly, highly recommended.

Sorry for the digression - back to the topic at hand.  Smile


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3404 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 5):
A few years ago my parents flew JetBlue from ROC to JFK to catch an Air France flight to CDG. Even before AirTrain, they found the connection easy and convenient.

Really? Have they connected recently? I can't imagine how they feel about the AirTrain if they thought connecting on that bus was easy!

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
The later retrentchment of Eagle from other JFK regional routes (like ALB, BDL, PVD, etc.) was tied more to AA's severe economic hardship in the 2002-2003 period, and the declining yields on the JFK Eagle flights because of a significant drop off in international demand, which had previously helped fill some of the JFK Eagle routes with higher-yielding connecting passengers.

So now that international travel is "back in", what other cities do you think Eagle might fly to from JFK?

People also tend to not realize just how impressive an operation AA (and DL) have at JFK. AA can connect you to pretty much every important business city in the country (not everything, but a very impressive amount).

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 10):
On a somewhat JFK-terminal-related note, has anyone had a chance to check out the new book "Recapturing the Dream" by Mark Blacklock? It's a VERY detailed architectural review of every JFK terminal constructed between 1950 and the present. There are hundreds of pictures in there that I've *never* seen before, including individual descriptions of each of the airline departure stations at the IAB. The "old" American terminal is covered in detail, and there are writeups of the new AA and B6 terminals currently under construction as well.

I received my copy a few weeks ago and haven't been able to put it down since. For airport history geeks like me, it's one of the best books I've come across. Highly, highly recommended.

OMG, yes! A fellow A.netter showed it to me and I ordered it off of Amazon.co.Uk...It came a week or two ago and is AMAZING! Even though he did cover some of the new terminals, I'd love to see a followup book that covers all of the current terminals and what they are like now.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3403 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
So now that international travel is "back in", what other cities do you think Eagle might fly to from JFK?

I could see them perhaps putting in a single daily Embraer to PHL, BDL, PVD, ALB, BUF, ROC, CMH, and DTW. I think all of them could probably support a single daily ERJ timed well to connect with the European bank.


User currently offlineLat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
I could see them perhaps putting in a single daily Embraer to PHL, BDL, PVD, ALB, BUF, ROC, CMH, and DTW. I think all of them could probably support a single daily ERJ timed well to connect with the European bank.

An early morning set of flights from those cities would be appropriate for the Caribbean bank as well. Before being scrubbed, the old EAAgle Saabs were packed with international through traffic. (very little poiint to point). Though operationally usually a circus, it provided a valuable link to AA int'l and Southbound system.


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