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Mexicana : A340 Or 777?  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

What was written in the last issue of Aviation Letter

"Mexicana has been licensed to begin scheduled service to China , and will acquire two A340s or Boeing 777s to operate the service."

No mention when service will start , neither city to be served (Beijing or Shangai).Also no words about their possible A330 acquisition.

Any news from Mexico ?

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCuprita From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

A340 of course.......All airplanes of them is Airbus , its logical..but the better plane is the B777

[Edited 2006-02-15 16:54:00]


PANASONIC DMZ-FZ5
User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Mexicana is quite carefull with aircraft orderes and although they operate a majority of Airbus aircraft I am certain that they will carefully evaluate Boeing also.

They have announced that they will be in the Orient by 2007 so it is official.

I believe it will be more than one city from what I last read.

Shanghai, Peking and even Hong Kong have been mentioned as future routes.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting Cuprita (Reply 1):
A340 of course.......All airplanes of them is Airbus , its logical..but the better plane is the B777

Cuprita -
which ham is better -
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5097/serrano3ej.jpg

Serrano

-or



Pata Negra ????

I suggest to replace the A versus B stuff into Serrano versus Pata Negra stuff-
It tastes much better !
But I agree that chances are big, our mexican amigos might chose Airbus -even if some consider the A340 a dying species...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

777-200ER - blatently. Would love them to get a mixed A332 and A346 fleet but cant see it personally.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
777-200ER - blatently.

The 777-200ER is insufficient for China routes from MEX. They will get either the A340-500 or the 777-200LR.

N


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting NAVEGA (Reply 2):
They have announced that they will be in the Orient by 2007 so it is official.

From what I have heard, the venture is still not official since the risks are quite high. The new owners started to realize that a bad start in a route like this could cost the airline too much money... lets wait and see!


User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

B777-200LR will do the job and will keep MX moto.


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 6):
From what I have heard, the venture is still not official since the risks are quite high. The new owners started to realize that a bad start in a route like this could cost the airline too much money... lets wait and see

Mx is evaluating the possibility, indeed is a risky venture but it can work.

About the aircraft, the decision is mainly for the Airbus aircraft, still waiting for the decision for the A330 that is delayed since last year, and still have to wait for the other aircraft, also with an all airbus family the costs are lower, starting from training (crews) as part of the CCQ, MX pilots can jump from the A320 family to the A330/A340 takes only 1 week betwen theory and practice, for the 777 will be a total investment needed, and will take a lot more time (and money).

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 41
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

what do Hispanophonic airlines have with the A340...seriously...its a shame



A340

Iberia
LAN
Air Madrid
Aerolineas Argentinas
Air Europa
soon Mexicana

777:

none I can think of !!


how sad and depressive... !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5197 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

MX B763 lease will expire this next December 2006. Last thing I know is that they will introduce 2 second hand A332s and go for 2 new A340s or B777s for it's Shangai new service which is due to start by April, 2007.

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Do you guys know how far, in terms of new businesses and markets, MX could get if instead of using a B777 or a A340 a B747 joins the fleet for Asia.

Think of if, there is a lot of cargo that MX could move from and to Asia.

There are days when MX sells up to 60 seats to Japan through NH.



Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
777:

none I can think of !!

Aeromexico my friend  Wink



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Will these A330's be factory new, long lease, permanent or just as a cheap stop-gate measure. Despite their Airbus short-haul fleet, I don't see this one in the bag for Airbus. I see this as 50-50 weighing the merits of both sets of a/c.

Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India???? Finally wouldn't something like the 787 (I know timing is important) be a better investment as it's conservative in size, has excellent range and payload??? Just a thought!!

On the side- that's what my ideal airline would fly- Airbus Short-haulers and Boeing Long-haulers!!!!!

AA1818



God is a Trini...
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
The 777-200ER is insufficient for China routes from MEX. They will get either the A340-500 or the 777-200LR.

I would guess that the A345s AC is dumping will be likely candidates.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
777:

none I can think of !!

Well, they are not Hispanophonic but Varig is Latin American. Aeromexico too, as mentioned above



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Two airplanes....I happen to know a national airline that will have 2 A345's for sale in the middle to end of next year. Who said they were going to buy new?

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineUcunnn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6265 times:

Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year. The national touristic board informed that They will open an office in China by may to make the contacts..but the info doesnt make sure if its Mexicana or any Chinese airline who is going to fly.. Because the info says they dpnt know what city in Mexico will touch land and what chinese airline will do it.. However is confuse since it says too that Mexicana is working with them about doing it....weird.


http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/330983.html


User currently offlineAm001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6162 times:
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Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 16):
Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year. (...) but the info doesnt make sure if its Mexicana or any Chinese airline who is going to fly..

Right... it'll be a Chinese carrier. I just found this at Reforma:

"Emilio Romano, director general de Mexicana de Aviación, reconoció que será hasta el 2008 cuando esta empresa ofrezca el vuelo DF-Tijuana-China con un avión propio.

"Mientras eso ocurre, Mexicana ofrece vuelos a China mediante alianzas con otra aerolínea y conexiones en Los Ángeles o Vancouver.

" 'Los planes de China se han retrasado, pero esperamos meter un avión propio hasta el 2008 antes de las Olimpiadas' , previó Romano".

Roughly translated as:

Emilio Romano, MX's CEO, recognized that it won't be until 2008 when a MEX-TIJ-China(?) flight will be offered in MX's own metal.

Meanwhile, MX will offer flights to China in alliance with other carriers, and via Los Angeles or Vancouver.

"Plans for China have been postponed, but we hope to have a plane of our own until 2008, before the Olympic games" Romano stated.

It also states that AM's flight to Japan will not be until after the sale of the company, but no further info.

Anyway, it is an article from reforma, which usually gets this kind of info wrong... so take it all with a grain of salt (except, of course, Romano's quote)....

Rgds...

AM001



"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

Quoting Am001 (Reply 17):
Anyway, it is an article from reforma, which usually gets this kind of info wrong... so take it all with a grain of salt (except, of course, Romano's quote)....

Can be, but today there was a Chinese delegation for the "Forum" here in MTY, they flew with MX, and it seems some interesting plans here.....

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 16):
Weird, i just found an article in EL UNIVERSAL newspaper (Mexico CIty) an article about the same info that Mexico will have non-stop flight to China at the most the end of this year.

Why not.....

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India????

The problem here will be take the plane out of MEX, that´s why, also like i said before, it´s a BIG investment to be done to introduce a new airplane, and because of the airbus commonality, the A340 it´s way cheapper than the 777, also have to check the lease contracts.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Will these A330's be factory new, long lease, permanent or just as a cheap stop-gate measure. Despite their Airbus short-haul fleet, I don't see this one in the bag for Airbus. I see this as 50-50 weighing the merits of both sets of a/c.

Maybe those two A332s they could acquire are going to be the remaining two A332s LH is currently flying. I believe LH will have fully phased out the A330-200 this year once at least most of their A333 fleet is online. Though if there were factory new A330s on the way, chances are they might miss the delivery slots they need.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Also why can't MX use 772ER's to China.....Aren't AA are running them from DFW to China/ India????

Unlike DFW, those 772ERs or A340s would be weight restricted if they would fly nonstop out of MEX due to the high altitude. However, they could put a tech stop in TIJ and then they could make the distance.

Here are some examples from the Great Circle Mapper as far as ranges go:

MEX-TIJ: 1242 nm
TIJ-PEK: 5542 nm
TIJ-PVG: 5745 nm

However the length of the runway makes me curious as to whether that would influence the possibility of nonstop flights to China without weight restrictions. The runway in TIJ is 9,711 ft long, and maybe they could need an at least 11,000 ft runway to enable them further flexibility.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5834 times:

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 9):
what do Hispanophonic airlines have with the A340...seriously...its a shame

And where, precisely, is the shame in that?

All nonsense aside, it's a good plane, one that is very well suited to operating the longhauls it's being placed on by most of these airlines; and despite what some constantly try to establish, yes, it is in fact a plane with good operating costs, one that can be operated profitably.

Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5814 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):

I'm sorry Leskova, but it is exactly comments like that that give you your 70 rating...

 Smile

Somebody had to tell you


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
All nonsense aside, it's a good plane, one that is very well suited to operating the longhauls it's being placed on by most of these airlines; and despite what some constantly try to establish, yes, it is in fact a plane with good operating costs, one that can be operated profitably.

Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

Well said, Frank! The bottom line is that airlines will eventually choose what suits them best.


User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5628 times:

Crystal ball (ie wild a$$ guess) says Boeing will sell them the planes.....
some SQ A345s as part of a Boeing buyback for SQ buying 777LRs!



It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 20):
Yes, there is something more economical available, but so what? It's not like all B767-operators dropped their planes for A330-200s the moment they became available...

May I add that sometimes, the plane is economical to operate, the problem is to get it.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 19):
Maybe those two A332s they could acquire are going to be the remaining two A332s LH is currently flying. I believe LH will have fully phased out the A330-200 this year once at least most of their A333 fleet is online. Though if there were factory new A330s on the way, chances are they might miss the delivery slots they need.

Sometimes chances are unexpected, like what happened with UDU and UDT (ex-IB A320´s operated by MX), they arrived to MEX on IB c/s, they where expected to be delivered to IB, but MX got them, something similar can happen with other aircraft; i´m not saying it will, i´m saying it can.

Saludos.



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
25 AA1818 : Travellin'man....I see your point, but i can't really see Boeing giving MX to Airbus. If they were already an Airbus long-hauler customer then I could
26 EddieDude : Well, I certainly agree with you that Boeing will work hard to get MX (after all, Airbus did try at some point to sell the A340 to AM). And MX will o
27 FlyDreamliner : The 777LR has a nice sized cargo advantage over A345. I'm not sure if that is a big issue of MX. Also, on the trip to china, the 777LR would burn an a
28 RootsAir : since when do trhey have them? Weren't they still on oprder? Having the A340 instead of the 777 is by definition a shame!
29 Post contains images JoeCattoli : Source??? I don't think so... A lot of people doesn't. Nice and fair... Ciao Joe
30 Ghost77 : Nothing yet has been written in stone! MX perhaps might give us a surprise and get a few B777/787s for B767/757 substitution and expansion!! But I thi
31 Leskova : Words fail me at such unbelievable insight! Regards, Frank
32 MakeMinesLAX : Depends on what your definition of "long" is. For some time, the 727 was the mainstay of their fleet. In addition, they've had DC-10s, 757s (still ar
33 Anthsaun : As far as I recall there was an announcement made in this forum a few months ago about MX not getting the A330's but still going on with the A340's. B
34 MakeMinesLAX : Given that the "hot and high" conditions of MEX have led them to purchase JATO-equipped 727s and DC-10-15s in the past, MX will be certain to give a l
35 EddieDude : I knew about AC but had no clue that the codeshare relatonship with LH was due to be terminated too. That is too bad! As for RG, I am not surprised.
36 Ghost77 : Eddiedude, It's confirmed!! Last day of MX/AC codeshare will be next March 31st, 2006. LH's/RG codeshare will end by the end of the year.... Perhaps N
37 LTU932 : I'd like to know that too. However, there is an advantage that the A340s have (though nowadays it might just be a minor advantage): they are all ETOP
38 Orbis : My guess is that no one at Mexicana is seriously planning ahead and that the new owners are more worried right now about the short term problems than
39 Leskova : The A340 has an advantage in regards to the "one engine out on takeoff" regulations (or was it "during climb"?): the A340 still has 75% of it's thrus
40 Post contains images N405MX : Indeed, MX now has forbidden to check-in UMNR´s and some conections or codeshares with AC. Heard something abouth RG, not so shure about LH; I´ll t
41 LTU932 : Indeed. Considering that there will be a most of those flights will see only water, this will be a very critical issue to be considered when they tak
42 Anthsaun : From my point of view, MX's new management should work on two fronts at this time. 1.- Recover all the domestic market and routes given to AM in order
43 N405MX : First step is going, MX is now trying to recover some routes, and starting to open new ones (like MEX-REX). Second step, will begin later this year,
44 Jopavon : And a longer with Boeing. Remember MX had one of the largest 727 fleets outside the US. Airbus got MX in the early 90s. I don't see them work togethe
45 N1120A : Except that tech stopping is not exactly what people want to do these days. Not particularly, depends on the type. With -5C3 power, the A343 has abou
46 N405MX : That was an AM movement, MX can´t see any AM flights (only 5D´s and AF codeshares with AM); but AM is able to check on MX flights. And it´s for en
47 LTU932 : True, but inevitably if they were to operate out of MEX, they would only be able to fly nonstop from Asia to MEX, not the other way around, because o
48 Leskova : ... and using the -5C4 (is that the one just used on the newer models? or when was it introduced) it has 34000 pounds... but not per side, but per en
49 Post contains images RayChuang : I think MX will go with the 777 for one reason: the hot and high operating conditions at MEX (Mexico City). With the GE90-94B powered 777-200ER the pl
50 Gigneil : No, they do not. That's a reason to go with the A345/346. EK has had a complaint as well. The A340-500/600 performs better out of hot and high airpor
51 LTU932 : Yes, but EK only operates the GE90-115B with the -110B to follow, not the GE90-94B. With the obvious exception of the 777-300ER and soon the 777-200L
52 Adriaticus : In fact, the largest (outside the USA). Unless MX chooses th B772LR... Regardless, a stop in TIJ makes big economic sense, in terms of catering for a
53 SFOMEX : Agreed. MX could fly to LHR, FRA, MXP or even MAD and CDG? Why not? These routes have everything to be succesful. As you ask yourself, I can neither
54 LTU932 : So, are you saying that it could be possible (though for the moment hypothetically) for MX and AM to make that stop in TIJ both ways?
55 OldAeroGuy : T/W isn't the only consideration in takeoff performance. Wing loading, liftoff speed, tire speed limits and brake energy limits also are important fa
56 Post contains images Anxebla : While I know T7 is a wonderful plane, you can't generalize, Cuprita. It depends of many many aspects to take into account. Here you are some of them:
57 Post contains links Adriaticus : Correct. You may want to check some threads in which this possibility has been widely discussed. Here's one: Aeromexico To NGO? (by Pzurita1 Jan 31 2
58 AeroMexico777 : The only problem to fly from MEX to Europe in a USA carrier is the terrible problem called VISA. Most of us, dont have acces to that paper, so most o
59 Longhornmaniac : What exactly needs more training from the 757-777 (they do still have them, don't they? everyone is talking about MX having Airbus planes, don't they
60 Adriaticus : Yes, they still do, albeit MX has about 10 times more A320-family planes than B757's. To answer your question, there is considerable upgrading traini
61 Gigneil : Of course, we're comparing apples to apples here. I am discussing the A340-500 and -600 vs. the 777-200LR and 777-300ER. EK wants and needs more thru
62 N405MX : Indeed, even from the 757 to the 767 you still need plenty of simulator hours. Some crews are being changed from the 757 to the A320. Yep, A318/319/3
63 Orbis : 10 Reasons why IMHO MX should start ASAP a route to Europe "before, not instead" the route to Asia. 1. Demand is there and will grow. And I think ever
64 Adriaticus : Ja,ja...! You probably will! (Unless you go LH, IB, AF, KL or BA, that is!) __ad.
65 Anthsaun : How is MX compensating the retirement of the B757's? Every time I´ve flown in one of them they are fully packed. The A320's are smaller.
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