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Allegiant To Announce....YNG-SFB On Thurs  
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

I'm sure this will spark a few discussions. But since the media has released it I might as well go ahead and post it.

Allegiant will announce Youngstown to Orlando on Thursday. Look for 2 flights a week to start. This article says a May start but I heard differently so we'll see what is in the official announcement.

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/294102109770700.php

[Edited 2006-02-16 08:50:57]


"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

After long anticipation, Allegiant has finally announced service to Youngstown, OH. Service is to begin on May 19th with 2x weekly (Mon and Fri) to Orlando-Sanford.

http://www.allegiantair.com/pr/021606.htm


User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4730 times:
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Seems to be kinda late to start - I think this route will only be popular for the snowbird flights in the winter.


Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4730 times:

I hope and pray to God none of my FEDERAL tax dollars were used on this. Once again, if you want to jumpstart a DEAD economy, get flights to a national business center, not Orlando-Sanford.

User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4722 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
I hope and pray to God none of my FEDERAL tax dollars were used on this. Once again, if you want to jumpstart a DEAD economy, get flights to a national business center, not Orlando-Sanford.

Absolutely!



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4709 times:

I am sure these grants are not meant to be chasing vacation flyers and affording them cheap flights for a once a year vacation. These grants should be used responsibly chasing flights to business centers that will attract growth for the business community....


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4681 times:

I know the viability of this route has been debated several times by people with opinions on both sides. I haven't done business in Youngstown in 10-15 years so I haven't wanted to use old info to form my opinion about the feasibility of the route. But because there were so many doubters it made me wonder what will happen.

So now its up to the YNG area to show if this was a good move or not. Allegiant strongly follows the "use it or lose it" policy. My personal guess (only my opinion since I don't work at G4  crying  ) is that YNG needs strong bookings over the next 8 weeks or so covering a long period of dates.

In other words, it needs more than just reservations for June and July vacations. There are lots of cities who would like Orlando flights for summer and beyond. And Allegiant will not be afraid to move the aircraft if the numbers don't look sustainable in the long term.

I expect Allegiant will take a first close look at this route starting in April or Early May. If reservations are weak, the flight is gone before it starts. If reservations are strong they'll be happy to start. But also don't let things drop off, they continue to watch routes and make changes.

To the YNG supporters, good luck proving the doubters wrong. Don't rely on just the airline and airport to market the service. Use grassroots marketing to create and sustain a buzz in the region. I hope it goes well for YNG.  crossfingers 

New route map
http://www.allegiantair.com/route_map.htm



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4632 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
I hope and pray to God none of my FEDERAL tax dollars were used on this.

I meant to point out this quote in the newspaper article in the original post. Full details aren't out but the paper said
The Vindicator has learned the airline will begin flights in May, and it will not be getting any financial inducement to begin the flights. Allegiant will receive advertising help from grants and help from the airport with airport-related costs.

Advertising and airport fees are typical inducements given to Allegiant, a lot of the ones I've seen have been deals like $75,000 in advertising and 6 months of fees waived. It sounds like Allegiant got a similiar package here and no direct subsidy or revenue guarantee.

The only federal money I am aware of that YNG has for service is a $250,000 SCASD grant from 2004. That was proposed for use only for marketing and advertising of new flight services, not any subsidy. So some SCASD money is probably going to pay for ads and mailings about this service. How much of the $250,000 is used for marketing this remains to be seen.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineG4resagent From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

We have had people calling us for the past three weeks or so saying: You are flying there, when does service start?

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 7):
a lot of the ones I've seen have been deals like $75,000 in advertising

That seems to be what they got here in ABE, which was a bit of a slap in the face of Hooters who had just announced ABE-MCO while billboards on 22 were showing Allegiant.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9515 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

I like Allegiant a lot but I am convinced that the surrounding Ohio area to Orlando is already greatly served by enough carriers as it is.


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 10):
I like Allegiant a lot but I am convinced that the surrounding Ohio area to Orlando is already greatly served by enough carriers as it is.

TOL was probably the last gap in Ohio-Orlando service...G4 filled that.

Quoting FATFlyer (Thread starter):
I'm sure this will spark a few discussions. But since the media has released it I might as well go ahead and post it.

If you followed anything on USAFlying, I think you'd agree this was probably the worst kept secret as it was leaked on there 10 months ago when they started talking. LOL


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 10):
I like Allegiant a lot but I am convinced that the surrounding Ohio area to Orlando is already greatly served by enough carriers as it is.

I can not believe I am saying this, though I agree 110% with STLGph! The area is served and served well I might add. You have PIT, CMH, CLE, ERI and DAY just for starters, a tad further you have TOL, CVG and DTW also. If it works then I'll eat my words, though so far the recent flights that have been added out of YNG speaks for itself.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 11):
the worst kept secret as it was leaked on there 10 months ago when they started talking.

LOL Of course that Allegiant was talking to YNG was no secret. I even mentioned the discussions myself elsewhere in the past.

Many of the cities that Allegiant has spoken with are not secrets, for example CRW spoke with G4 recently. But not all of the cites end up with flights or they have to wait a couple of years, but that's the real secret in these deals.

Sometimes when it leaks out the deals fall apart, which is why the ones I hear about I try not to mention until either the day of or a day or so before the announcement. Sharing inside info too soon can sometimes be a mistake.

G4 actually making a final decision to accept the YNG deal, then setting an actual start date was the real secret. Even those posters at the other site who claimed to know inside info about G4 and YNG didn't have info on the correct start date. They kept saying by Easter, this is a month later date. Heck, depending upon conditions in other markets G4 could have decided to wait even longer on this deal.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3143 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

More Details.................

Courtesy: The Business Journal

Allegiant Air To Announce Twice-Weekly Service To Orlando

http://www.business-journal.com/AllegiantAirtoAnnounce.asp


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 13):
G4 actually making a final decision to accept the YNG deal, then setting an actual start date was the real secret. Even those posters at the other site who claimed to know inside info about G4 and YNG didn't have info on the correct start date. They kept saying by Easter, this is a month later date. Heck, depending upon conditions in other markets G4 could have decided to wait even longer on this deal.

Exactly...and for all we know, if sales aren't good enough...TOL will remain the only Ohio city on the map. Nice to see they updated the additional 2 weekly SFB flights to MD83s.


User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

A few more details courtesy the media in this article:
http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/290238542802406.php

Marketing will continue with a $250,000 Department of Transportation Small Community Air Services grant that the port authority was awarded in 2004 and was first available to help Pan Am Clipper Connection advertise its service last year. The port authority withdrew that funding from Pan Am last summer, before the company could offer any flights because of questions about Pan Am's finances.

Vic Rubenstein, of the Rubenstein Associates marketing company of Liberty, said he is under an oral contract with the port authority to run advertising and marketing for Allegiant's service.

Anyone know how much of the grant is left for advertising Allegiant? Also, why an "oral contract"? Why even say that it is only oral? It just strikes me as strange.

Winner Aviation, which has been locked in a competitive battle with ReadyAir, the other service provider at the airport, said it has negotiated a contract with Allegiant to provide the fuel handling. Winner Aviation President Rick Hale said the parties recently agreed to a one-year agreement; he wouldn't disclose the fuel price. Hale said the price for Allegiant is in line with fuel costs at Akron-Canton and similar airports.
ATCRick, where are you. In the back of my mind I thought Allegiant had been trying for longer fuel contracts at other airports, or is my memory faulty.

Bowser said the port authority and Allegiant do not have a formal contract yet, but they did sign a "memo of understanding" a week ago that contains language on most of the important points.
Anyone know what points are left?



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
Marketing will continue with a $250,000 Department of Transportation Small Community Air Services grant that the port authority was awarded in 2004 and was first available to help Pan Am Clipper Connection advertise its service last year.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate abuse of SCASD? It's to develop economies to provide air service necessary to attract business to the region... NOT discount flights to Florida... and especially not when there are already well served airports in all directions.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 16):
ATCRick, where are you. In the back of my mind I thought Allegiant had been trying for longer fuel contracts at other airports, or is my memory faulty.

Don't worry, I look for Allegiant to be gone as soon as the $250k in advertising is gone so they don't need more than a year of fuel. Unless they start buying some cast-off RJ's, because that would be the only way to get block cost in line with the loads which are coming.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

I can see how TOL works for G4. YNG is surrounded by other airports that are offering and have been offering flights to Florida for a long time.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 18):
YNG is surrounded by other airports that are offering and have been offering flights to Florida for a long time.

Considering it's Airtran on both sides immediately closest to them... that Airtran serves MCO and not SFB... the 717/73G are more efficient than an older MD8x, and that Airtran's prices are pretty much in line anyways, it might be getting ugly soon. Somehow, I think Airtran can outlast Allegiant.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

After it is said and done I do think that the new charter terminal at CMH would have been a better choice....


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4360 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 17):
Have I mentioned lately how much I hate abuse of SCASD? It's to develop economies to provide air service necessary to attract business to the region... NOT discount flights to Florida... and especially not when there are already well served airports in all directions.

While I do agree with you I have a question for ya...What do you think about these communities that got SCASD grants for "Feasability Studies?" I think those are abuse also and it shuns out airports who had really good proposals last year (I am only impartial to TOL since I thought they had a very solid application, but there were others out there too  Smile ).

Now, on the flip side of the service, while 80 percent of the travel will be liesure, Orlando and other places down there certainly have business relavences - Conventions. With conventions in Orlando, usually they allow families to go right along..blah blah blah. While this isn't spurring business growth on a big extreme, there is some truth to it. Also, I am wondering if YNG is trying to pull what RFD did with Hooters, prove to other carriers they can fill flights to lure the other carriers in there. Yes, it's a gray area but in the end it could spur economic growth with other carriers offering service down the road.

As for my opinion as to how this service will do, I don't know. I'm going to take the wait and see approach.  Smile


User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3837 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 20):
After it is said and done I do think that the new charter terminal at CMH would have been a better choice....

The one at LCK? I'd like to see Allegiant start there. That terminal's empty again. Pan Am v3 left in November & Hooters pulled out recently.

DeltaRules



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 21):
Now, on the flip side of the service, while 80 percent of the travel will be liesure, Orlando and other places down there certainly have business relavences - Conventions. With conventions in Orlando, usually they allow families to go right along..blah blah blah. While this isn't spurring business growth on a big extreme, there is some truth to it.

To be attractive to business travelers the flights have to be offered more than twice a week! Business people want the ability to come home earlier if there plans change, or stay later for the same reason. Or even have the choice of a earlier flight/later flight on the same day, not one flight a day and only twice a week.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 21):
I think those are abuse also

Agreed...


25 Luv2fly : Yes and I am almost sure it would be an easier sell to fill the flights.
26 Flyinryan99 : Oh I totally understand that. What I was getting at were the conventions. Usually conventions would last a little longer and with family there things
27 Luv2fly : The thing with conventions is that the participants usually come from all over the place.
28 FATFlyer : Don't get me started on Congressional Pork because I think there is a lot of waste in spending in all parts of the country. When I hear about little
29 ATCRick : A: Have you mentioned how much you hate Allegiant for some reason? And people will not fly AirTran as opposed to Allegiant cause they think they are
30 Post contains images Tornado82 : Actually I don't, and think it's great that they're going into many underserved markets. SBN? Brilliant! ABE? Replacing Trasmeridian, Brilliant, espe
31 Luv2fly : Tornado82 I agree totally with your analogy and feelings on this matter. I also just booked some relatives on Allegiant from SBN to LAS and return. My
32 CentPIT : I agree with both of you 100%. I doubt this service will last very long.
33 Ouboy79 : ERI would be my top choice if they want something in that region...but they went with YNG for now. We'll see what happens.
34 FATFlyer : It will be interesting to watch. People said the same thing about Allegiant at Peoria because BMI was only 45 miles away. FNL and BLV seem to survive
35 ATCRick : An assanine statement at best. Based on the revenue G4 generates based on package deals they sell FL cannot compete at the same level. I won't bother
36 Tornado82 : Nothing beats getting insulted by someone who spells the insult wrong, what an "assanine genious" it must be who can't spell nor use spell check. We
37 FATFlyer : LOL Good to hear that G4 is going to leave LAS and come back to California. Rick let me know when you want to come and househunt, I'll hook you up wi
38 Iowaman : Come on people, people will enjoy the convinence and low parking fees of YNG, with cheap n/s service to Orlando. YNG-SFB should do just fine.
39 Sunking737 : Its great to see G4 add more cities, this means they will hire more employees. I think its time we have a WWE cage match all of us Airline people agai
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