RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Just wondering why the latest transcons seem to leave around 6 or 7 PM....Is there no demand for a flight that would leave JFK around midnight or later and arrive on the West Coast early in the morning?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter): Just wondering why the latest transcons seem to leave around 6 or 7 PM....Is there no demand for a flight that would leave JFK around midnight or later and arrive on the West Coast early in the morning?
The main problem Reese is the time change. Remember, while a flight from JFK to LAX runs about 6 hours (usually less, rarely more based on wins) LAX is 3 hours behind. Basically then you have a flight that would end up at LAX at 3 AM, a very unseemly hour.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22022 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
To be honest there is not too much demand for late evening Westbound flights from the East Coast.
UA operates a 840pm JFK-LAX, while DL/Song used to have a 9pm departure.
Otherwise Jetblue has some late 8pm'ish flghts to ONT and OAK.
Otherwise UA also runs a few 9pm departures out of IAD.
All in all the latest flights arrive the West Coast around midnight.
Going back in history however, I do remember PeoplExpress having a 1am or so departure from EWR for LAX that would arrive at 4am and would be the 8am flight back to EWR. Certainly good for aircraft utilization, however a rather uncivilized time to be flying.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
America West - err, US Airways - has a big bank of flights from the East Coast to Las Vegas that go out around 8-9 p.m. as part of their night hub operations. EWR, MIA, JFK, BOS, MCO, PHL, BWI, ATL, PIT, TPA, YYZ, IAD, among others.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19686 posts, RR: 56 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
On average, UA's block time from JFK to SFO is 6:30, and JFK to LAX is 6:10. What you're thinking is that a flight could leave from JFK at 11:00pm, and get to SFO at 5:30am, which would be ideal timing for someone with a tight schedule.
The problem is the time change, minus three hours. So take off three hours from the flight time and you'll get what I call "scheduled time", 3:30 for SFO and 3:10 for LAX. That 11:00pm flight now arrives in SFO at 2:30am and 2:10am in LAX. Airlines have decided that it doesn't make much sense to do such a flight, as those who have afternoon meetings in NYC would be able to make the 7 or 8pm flights, and those who have morning meetings in SFO/LAX would either fly out the night before or take the early flights, which depart around 6am and arrive around 9 or 10am. Leisure travellers wouldn't want to arrive at 3 in the morning. So it would be a flight that nobody wants.
The latest one could schedule a flight is probably about 9:30pm, which would mean a 1am arrival into SFO, or 12:45am into LAX.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2): while DL/Song used to have a 9pm departure.
The DL/Song 9pm departure out of JFK returns to the schedule effective March 2. It will operate daily except Tue and Wed. Arrival at LAX is scheduled at 12:27am.
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7421 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 4): Airlines have decided that it doesn't make much sense to do such a flight, as those who have afternoon meetings in NYC would be able to make the 7 or 8pm flights, and those who have morning meetings in SFO/LAX would either fly out the night before or take the early flights, which depart around 6am and arrive around 9 or 10am. Leisure travellers wouldn't want to arrive at 3 in the morning. So it would be a flight that nobody wants.
Well, I realized there was the time change when I posted it. My reasoning was that there has to be a decent amount of businessmen who would rather spend the evening in NYC and have a late night flight out....Even if it gets into LAX at a crappy hour, it still means a full evening in NYC followed by a ~6 hour flight to rest/sleep.
Plus it would be great aircraft utilization...But perhaps my assumption that there is a decent number of businessmen who would like to stay later is wrong. And leisure travellers don't matter--jetBlue proves that leisure pax will travel despite the crazy times.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21025 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7331 times:
I've wanted to take such a flight many times. So have other people I know in NYC. A 1am arrival is not the worst thing in life to deal with, considering even after reaching a nearby hotel, you can get 5 hours of sleep.
Some airlines used to have a late night Friday and late night Sunday only departure (9-10pm) flight to get people where they needed to be for business reasons.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7309 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 8): And leisure travellers don't matter--jetBlue proves that leisure pax will travel despite the crazy times.
Actually, jetBlue relies on a lot of business traffic, particularly on the transcon routes, hence why they usually start off with redeyes.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7258 times:
Quoting Mudboy (Reply 5): So anybody know when the last arrivals into LAX and SFO are?
The Las Vegas night-bank connections on US Airways arrive in the very wee hours to the West Coast spokes.
LAS-LAX at 1:08 a.m.
LAS-SFO at 1:20 a.m.
LAS-OAK at 1:31 a.m.
LAS-SEA at 2:30 a.m.
But the real o'dark-thirty arrivals are the red-eye bank flights into Midwest destinations.
LAS-AUS arrives at 3:26 a.m.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7258 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 10): Actually, jetBlue relies on a lot of business traffic, particularly on the transcon routes, hence why they usually start off with redeyes.
I didn't say they don't rely on business traffic...But they do have some pretty crazy timed flights (mostly Caribbean) that still attract a lot of leisure passengers (some A.netters have even claimed that these flights are some of their most profitable).
FiveMileFinal From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7210 times:
I remember flying America's Worst when I was younger, MSP-LAS-OAK. The flight would leave MSP around 2230 and would arrive in LAS around 0030 local time. I'd then have about an hour layover in the smokiest airport in America, leaving LAS at about 0130 and arrive in OAK about 0230. This was in the early 90s.
You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7052 times:
Quoting RJpieces (Reply 12): I didn't say they don't rely on business traffic...But they do have some pretty crazy timed flights (mostly Caribbean) that still attract a lot of leisure passengers (some A.netters have even claimed that these flights are some of their most profitable).
Those are high yield VFR flights, kind of like the Teclote flights from the west coast
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19686 posts, RR: 56 Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7037 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9): I've wanted to take such a flight many times. So have other people I know in NYC. A 1am arrival is not the worst thing in life to deal with, considering even after reaching a nearby hotel, you can get 5 hours of sleep.
I'll agree with you there - there probably is a market for a flight that departs NYC around 9:30 or 10. But any later than that and I think you'd find the number of prospective passengers drop off pretty rapidly.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
MalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6894 times:
Part of the reasoning is that most business hours in New York end at about 5pm or 6pm, after that they can grab a quick meal and head to the airport. There is no need for a late night JFK-SFO or JFK-LAX on UA, or AA. The late evening flights have always been less of an attraction to premium traffic, and tend to draw the discount crowd. That can be seen evident in the late evening packed flights of B6, and DL.
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1590 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6872 times:
When I was a younger in the 1960s and 70s, DL would operate a DC-8 from ATL to SAN via LAX. It left ATL at Midnight and after a stop at LAX did not arrive SAN until 3:30am. That SOB would turn finals 1000 feet over my house at 3:30am every morning for years. Some nights it was really low making the 180 for RWY 27 and I'd run out of the house to catch a glimpse of it. Great memories! Didn't bother me a bit that it was 3:30am! Later, it was operated by an L-1011.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4719 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6829 times:
Various airlines have tried late night flights, but they usually have been at reduced fares. Their goal was to increase utilization of aircraft; but with today's high operating costs, increasing utilization doesn't have as much financial appeal as in other years. The east bound redeye sells at regular fares, so a night differential would cut your revenue on those flights unless you started a 6PM west coast departure as your night flight.
The last thing the airlines which fly the transcons want to do is cut fares and yields on routes that are more or less free of trash fares. I wouldn't look for AA, CO, or UA to start any night flight wars. Jetblue as well has to watch its yields since its numbers turned sour. Only a desperate Delta might try something.
Petmbro From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 6788 times:
Doing transcon in the opposite direction on UA (SFO-BDL non-stop) I left SFO around 4pm and came into BDL around 10:10, so by the time I got home it was around 11:30, which after travelling all day really takes a lot out of you. Imagine if I left SFO a few hours later and came in at 1-2am? As much as I love flying, late late nights ruin it for me.
"don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!" - Judge Judy
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6710 times:
I've always wanted the late flights -- not just for working in NYC (which I, as others, am surprised doesn't support the late night flights) but for later returns from Europe. Take coming back from SOF or PRG on AA, for example. The BA codeshares out of those locations only connect to the late departures for JFK and/or BOS, after the last westbound flights have arrived. So you end up taking the overnight at LHR or JFK.
Willyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 466 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6615 times:
Quoting Petmbro (Reply 19): Doing transcon in the opposite direction on UA (SFO-BDL non-stop) I left SFO around 4pm and came into BDL around 10:10, so by the time I got home it was around 11:30, which after travelling all day really takes a lot out of you. Imagine if I left SFO a few hours later and came in at 1-2am? As much as I love flying, late late nights ruin it for me.
I think your timing is off on one end or the other. If you left SFO at 4pm, you should have arrived BDL around midnight. It's a 5+ hour flight, and add that to the three hour time difference, and you have an 8 hour gate to gate time.
WesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5381 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6400 times:
Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 11): But the real o'dark-thirty arrivals are the red-eye bank flights into Midwest destinations.
LAS-AUS arrives at 3:26 a.m.
Hehe, I remember that the US PHX-STL late night got into STL at 4:21AM!
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17): Some nights it was really low making the 180 for RWY 27 and I'd run out of the house to catch a glimpse of it. Great memories! Didn't bother me a bit that it was 3:30am! Later, it was operated by an L-1011.
LOL< Welcome to my RU List! When I lived by JFK I'd wake up around 2AM and head down on weekends to watch the planes until late the next afternoon.
Woohoo! Back to Beirut in Oct '13! (Along with a stop in DOH for 4 days)
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 27 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6354 times:
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18): Various airlines have tried late night flights, but they usually have been at reduced fares. Their goal was to increase utilization of aircraft; but with today's high operating costs, increasing utilization doesn't have as much financial appeal as in other years.
Once upon a time, the airways were full of redeyes...Every airline had at least one post-midnight flight.
I think the one that probably had the most was Eastern.
Looking at their timetables from the 1960's you will find dozens of flights arriving between 2am and 6am...especially to Florida. Back then, it seemed like every city EA served had at least one nonstop to either MIA or FLL.
I am just gonna pull a random timetable out of the draw for some other examples:
American Airlines: 1979.
Two flights to SJU from EWR and JFK arrived at 0351 and 0402
A lot from DFW arriving after midnight; ABQ 0151, ELP 0137, LAX 0210, ONT 0214, SAN 0158 & 0323 via LAX, SFO 0225, TUS 0203.
ORD to DTW arriving at 0100 on a DC10 no less.
RJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6339 times:
Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 22): When I lived by JFK I'd wake up around 2AM and head down on weekends to watch the planes until late the next afternoon.
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