DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4650 times:
Some pilots held signs that said "career employees, turnstile management," and "it's not the cost of fuel, it's the lack of leadership." Another sign read: "Employee sacrifices should not enrich management."
No truer signs could be held...it's too bad you don't have the non-union employees blowing the same horn, because it applies to every single non-management employee on property.
On Thursday, the union warned that if the bankruptcy court approves the severance payouts, it could hurt efforts to agree on more pilot concessions...The Air Line Pilots Association said the Atlanta-based airline's Feb. 8 bankruptcy court request for the officer severance plan would be bad for employee morale.
Damn right...not just the pilot's morale, but everyone. If these needless payouts are approved, expect talks to stall even more- this is another turn of the proverbial knife in the pilot's backs.
Delta has been seeking $325 million in new concessions from its 6,000 pilots. It recently offered to lower the request to $315 million, including an 18 percent wage cut.
10 mil..big whoop. Nice good-faith negotiations on the part of the company.
Delta pilots who are furloughed get up to six months of pay depending on years of service, according the union, which says the company wants to reduce the furlough benefit to the equivalent of up to three months of pay.
While giving management golden parachutes. In addition to this needless request, management also wants unhindered furlough power...so, they can boot out any number of pilots for any reason (no more running to the force majure clause), and then pay them practically nothing. This isn't management anymore, this is a dictatorship.
Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.
FlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1631 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4459 times:
We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay. I can get another job but, I cant say the same for everybody. Everyone has had to suffer from the BS of upstairs, but we keep working, partly because we don't have a union to back us on a strike and the other because we know if we strike there wont be a job to walk back to.
BOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4436 times:
I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.
While I dont blame them for being irate about whats going on, a strike would not be the most helpful solution. A useful threat maybe, but following through would be a mistake.
WDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 606 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4361 times:
Hasn't anyone learned from the labor strife at Eastern ?
Both management and employees need to work together,
otherwise it will just tear the company apart. If Delta folds,
there will be a big fight on who moves into the ATL superhub.
DeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 16 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4325 times:
Quoting Papatango (Reply 3): Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?
We all agree the DL pilots made a lot of money. Still do if you ask me (but I may be wrong.) While I hardly ever agree with unions I do see a bit of their point though. The previous management wrangled some concessions out of them with the statement that while it was painful it wouldn't have to ahppen again. Now the newer management is coming back to the well and wanting even more. Granted, the newer management seems to have a better grasp on the situation than the previous yahoos but it still kind of stinks.
Personally I doubt they will strike. I think both sides will reach a medium somehow where they both think they are getting screwed but will help the company in the long run. DL will pull through these issues. If folks like UA and US can get through it (some of them twice) I'm sure DL can get the pieces together.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4314 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 7): I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5): I understand the gravity of any strike, but why not tell the company to reconsider messing with labor? Enough is enough.
Absolutely. Promises made to labor groups should not be negotiable. Management may label those promises as impossible to uphold, but the fact is, it's their job to make it all come together.
The pilots have been doing their part. I'd say it's time for management to do theirs.
AirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4294 times:
Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2): Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.
Amen!! Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"? It's GOT to stop! Management's refusal to sacrifice their severance, while their employees are doing all they can to bend over backwards and keep this great airline in the air, is disgusting. I'm tired of people attacking DL pilots about their salary. Take a look at managements severance package! Looks nice doesn't it? Sure these guys/Gals were some of the highest paid. But imagine living on a salary, and becoming used to living on that salary, only to take 32% away- WILLINGLY, only for management to say "we want more"! Disgusting......
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
Ptharris From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4010 times:
OH MY GOD!!! It's EASTERN all over again. I can faintly here Taps being played in the background....
I understand why the pilots are fighting, and yahoo for you. But wouldn't it make more sense to strike a company that's a bit more financially solvent? Strongarm your way into a better car and bigger house when the price isn't so expensive for "Ramp Agent Joe" and his family at home. Don't like what you're paid, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! Union's brainwash members to look only forward and not around. There's other carriers to fly for. Don't ruin one then be forced to go to the other... they'll see you coming and get you for bottom basement price! Why, because they know you're out of work and NEED a job! Oh, one other thing to remember... you're union rep, keeps his/her job even after you lose yours. What a pity...
Delta Pilots: Good luck to you! You're going to need it. I hope while you're on the picket lines you don't turn around an notice the Delta Air Lines sign missing.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
Db373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 227 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4005 times:
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 6): We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay.
Wasn't it the lovely pilots that pretty much kept DL from ordering the 777?
Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13): Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.
Link? Last I saw, DL was still #4 on the pilot payscale....
Cairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3993 times:
I think the pilots should demand as much as they think they're worth and strike if they want to. Unions can perform a valuable role in the capitalist system.
What I don't understand is this: why do the pilots let their emotions dictate whether they will strike or not? Why isn't it just purely an objective financial issue?
The 'golden parachutes' are estimated by the company to be as little as 3
million dollars (assuming 20% of mgmt is terminated) and at most (if every single executive got fired) 14 million dollars. WHO CARES??? Can we all agree that whether or not the 'parachutes' are activated it will have no effect on the financial health of Delta?
The shareholder equity in Delta has already been completely destroyed. Delta's creditors, in effect, now own Delta. Delta has been given a second chance and is in a very fragile state, but the pilots are worried about severance pay for management purely because it pisses them off, not because it has any effect on the financial health of Delta. There are all kinds of things employees can do positively if they want to help ensure their future, but this doesn't make sense to me. Why worry about ego and things that have no effect on finanances when Delta's finances are in absolute critical condition? Anyone care to explain?
Tu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 667 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3986 times:
Just got a call from a friend who works for DL at ATL. Evidently there was a work slowdown today by the pilots at DL. He also stated that every single pilot he spoke to said they were going to strike and Gerry has a rude awakening coming. Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............
AirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3969 times:
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15): Oh it'll stop. It'll stop when they pilots cut their noses off to spite their faces, atrike the company, and burn the place down so there is no airline to come back to.
After managements behavior, that may be the best. After all the nearly 50% pay cut, it's probably more benificial to look elswhere, and tell management to enjoy their million$. If DL goes under, it would be horrible, but you can't blame a workgroup that has sacrificed so much already. Obviously, you support management. All I can say is....What will management walk away with, compared to what the pilots will? If you still think that's fair, or you think that DL pilots should give more to them....well, I guess you've never flown for an airline, and can't see the games being played here. Imagine your paycheck arriving 47% short, while your boss has implimented a "golden chute" to save his a$$, and not yours.
[Edited 2006-02-18 06:18:11]
If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
DeltaMD88 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3956 times:
Quoting Tu154m (Reply 21): Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............
I sure hope so
I have been a loyal DL customer for quite some time now. I love the airline, the employees are great and treat their customers well. However, the pilots have taken many cuts and there comes a time when they need to take a stand and say 'enough is enough'. I would hate to see the airline go Ch. 7, but something has to give. I know DL has cut their losses dramatically over 2004, but mgt. needs to look in other places to cut costs. I only wish they would look back to Lorenzo and EA, there are many lessons to be learned there, EA did not die in vain. I have a ROA-ATL-PHL flight with them on the 16th, I would hate to see them fold, but I cannot blame the pilots for striking either.