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Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3108 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Courtesy: Associated Press

Delta Pilots Picket At Atlanta Terminal

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060217/delta_pilots.html?.v=7

81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJumpseat70 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

I can hear the drum beats far off in the distance. Heard them before in 1986 with TWA. TWA, what happened to TWA? Oh dear God, not again!!

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5876 times:

Some pilots held signs that said "career employees, turnstile management," and "it's not the cost of fuel, it's the lack of leadership." Another sign read: "Employee sacrifices should not enrich management."
No truer signs could be held...it's too bad you don't have the non-union employees blowing the same horn, because it applies to every single non-management employee on property.

On Thursday, the union warned that if the bankruptcy court approves the severance payouts, it could hurt efforts to agree on more pilot concessions...The Air Line Pilots Association said the Atlanta-based airline's Feb. 8 bankruptcy court request for the officer severance plan would be bad for employee morale.
Damn right...not just the pilot's morale, but everyone. If these needless payouts are approved, expect talks to stall even more- this is another turn of the proverbial knife in the pilot's backs.

Delta has been seeking $325 million in new concessions from its 6,000 pilots. It recently offered to lower the request to $315 million, including an 18 percent wage cut.
10 mil..big whoop. Nice good-faith negotiations on the part of the company.

Delta pilots who are furloughed get up to six months of pay depending on years of service, according the union, which says the company wants to reduce the furlough benefit to the equivalent of up to three months of pay.
While giving management golden parachutes. In addition to this needless request, management also wants unhindered furlough power...so, they can boot out any number of pilots for any reason (no more running to the force majure clause), and then pay them practically nothing. This isn't management anymore, this is a dictatorship.

Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlinePapatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5760 times:

Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5713 times:
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If the pilots strike Delta will go on an involantary strike, is that what you really want. I feel bad for you guys but to put everyone out of a job is not cool. Please reconsider.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

Please reconsider? You mean, allow the company to have all of their bullshit requests? Sure.

I understand the gravity of any strike, but why not tell the company to reconsider messing with labor? Enough is enough.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5685 times:
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We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay. I can get another job but, I cant say the same for everybody. Everyone has had to suffer from the BS of upstairs, but we keep working, partly because we don't have a union to back us on a strike and the other because we know if we strike there wont be a job to walk back to.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineBOS2LAF From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5662 times:

I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.

While I dont blame them for being irate about whats going on, a strike would not be the most helpful solution. A useful threat maybe, but following through would be a mistake.

[Edited 2006-02-17 23:32:39]

User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 611 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

Hasn't anyone learned from the labor strife at Eastern ?
Both management and employees need to work together,
otherwise it will just tear the company apart. If Delta folds,
there will be a big fight on who moves into the ATL superhub.


User currently offlineCVG72 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5572 times:

Come on, Delta, pull on through this. You guys are a great, convienent airline. You can do it. And I'm going to SXM through ATL on the 13th so come on!

CVG72



Roll Tide // Next: UA/EV/LH CVG-EWR-FRA-DUS-MUC-EWR-CVG
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting Papatango (Reply 3):
Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?

We all agree the DL pilots made a lot of money. Still do if you ask me (but I may be wrong.) While I hardly ever agree with unions I do see a bit of their point though. The previous management wrangled some concessions out of them with the statement that while it was painful it wouldn't have to ahppen again. Now the newer management is coming back to the well and wanting even more. Granted, the newer management seems to have a better grasp on the situation than the previous yahoos but it still kind of stinks.

Personally I doubt they will strike. I think both sides will reach a medium somehow where they both think they are getting screwed but will help the company in the long run. DL will pull through these issues. If folks like UA and US can get through it (some of them twice) I'm sure DL can get the pieces together.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5540 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 7):
I don't blame them for being p*ssed off. Management needs to take a lesson from Continental and Gordon Bethune. They need to be honest about whats going on, and show that they're all in it together. Not slashing pay while giving themselves golden parachutes. Thats just arrogance.

 checkmark 

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
I understand the gravity of any strike, but why not tell the company to reconsider messing with labor? Enough is enough.

Absolutely. Promises made to labor groups should not be negotiable. Management may label those promises as impossible to uphold, but the fact is, it's their job to make it all come together.

The pilots have been doing their part. I'd say it's time for management to do theirs.

BTW, congrats on your 3000th post, DeltaGuy!




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineAirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy

Amen!! Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"? It's GOT to stop! Management's refusal to sacrifice their severance, while their employees are doing all they can to bend over backwards and keep this great airline in the air, is disgusting. I'm tired of people attacking DL pilots about their salary. Take a look at managements severance package! Looks nice doesn't it? Sure these guys/Gals were some of the highest paid. But imagine living on a salary, and becoming used to living on that salary, only to take 32% away- WILLINGLY, only for management to say "we want more"! Disgusting......



If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

Quoting Papatango (Reply 3):
Has any Delta pilot raised the issue of the millions of $ DALPA took from Delta post 9/11 becasue of their UA+1 stance?

We did not take anything. I don't disagree that the pay was high, but it was a negotiated contract signed by both sides.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
We all agree the DL pilots made a lot of money. Still do if you ask me (but I may be wrong.)

Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.


User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5403 times:

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 12):
Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"?

The pilots took a 32% cut over a year ago, and recently took another 14% cut.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

Quoting AirlineAV8tr (Reply 12):
Amen!! Pilots take a 32% pay cut while management gets a "Golden Parachute"? It's GOT to stop!

Oh it'll stop. It'll stop when they pilots cut their noses off to spite their faces, atrike the company, and burn the place down so there is no airline to come back to.


User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5342 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Well you pilots can go on strike for whatever benifits you want but will you have a job to get them from.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 683 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

Just hurry up and do something. Get on with it. Put your $$$$ where your mouth is and shut it down. Enough is enough. All talk and no action makes Jack a very dull boy..........


CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlinePtharris From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

OH MY GOD!!! It's EASTERN all over again. I can faintly here Taps being played in the background....

I understand why the pilots are fighting, and yahoo for you. But wouldn't it make more sense to strike a company that's a bit more financially solvent? Strongarm your way into a better car and bigger house when the price isn't so expensive for "Ramp Agent Joe" and his family at home. Don't like what you're paid, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! Union's brainwash members to look only forward and not around. There's other carriers to fly for. Don't ruin one then be forced to go to the other... they'll see you coming and get you for bottom basement price! Why, because they know you're out of work and NEED a job! Oh, one other thing to remember... you're union rep, keeps his/her job even after you lose yours. What a pity...

Delta Pilots: Good luck to you! You're going to need it. I hope while you're on the picket lines you don't turn around an notice the Delta Air Lines sign missing.



If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
User currently offlineDb373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 6):
We all know Delta doesn't care if all Delta employes jumped off of E concourse and got hit by a passing 777 as long as the fligh did't delay.

Wasn't it the lovely pilots that pretty much kept DL from ordering the 777?

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13):
Delta pilots now make less than the pilots at Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier, Continental, American, Hawaiin, and others. No, the Delta pilots do not still make a lot of money.

Link? Last I saw, DL was still #4 on the pilot payscale....



Keep Delta My Delta
User currently offlineCairo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

I think the pilots should demand as much as they think they're worth and strike if they want to. Unions can perform a valuable role in the capitalist system.

What I don't understand is this: why do the pilots let their emotions dictate whether they will strike or not? Why isn't it just purely an objective financial issue?

The 'golden parachutes' are estimated by the company to be as little as 3
million dollars (assuming 20% of mgmt is terminated) and at most (if every single executive got fired) 14 million dollars. WHO CARES??? Can we all agree that whether or not the 'parachutes' are activated it will have no effect on the financial health of Delta?

The shareholder equity in Delta has already been completely destroyed. Delta's creditors, in effect, now own Delta. Delta has been given a second chance and is in a very fragile state, but the pilots are worried about severance pay for management purely because it pisses them off, not because it has any effect on the financial health of Delta. There are all kinds of things employees can do positively if they want to help ensure their future, but this doesn't make sense to me. Why worry about ego and things that have no effect on finanances when Delta's finances are in absolute critical condition? Anyone care to explain?

Cairo


User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 683 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

Just got a call from a friend who works for DL at ATL. Evidently there was a work slowdown today by the pilots at DL. He also stated that every single pilot he spoke to said they were going to strike and Gerry has a rude awakening coming. Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............


CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineAirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5195 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 15):
Oh it'll stop. It'll stop when they pilots cut their noses off to spite their faces, atrike the company, and burn the place down so there is no airline to come back to.

After managements behavior, that may be the best. After all the nearly 50% pay cut, it's probably more benificial to look elswhere, and tell management to enjoy their million$. If DL goes under, it would be horrible, but you can't blame a workgroup that has sacrificed so much already. Obviously, you support management. All I can say is....What will management walk away with, compared to what the pilots will? If you still think that's fair, or you think that DL pilots should give more to them....well, I guess you've never flown for an airline, and can't see the games being played here. Imagine your paycheck arriving 47% short, while your boss has implimented a "golden chute" to save his a$$, and not yours.

[Edited 2006-02-18 06:18:11]


If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
User currently offlineDeltaMD88 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5182 times:

Quoting Tu154m (Reply 21):
Again, just heresay from a friend who works there.............

I sure hope so

I have been a loyal DL customer for quite some time now. I love the airline, the employees are great and treat their customers well. However, the pilots have taken many cuts and there comes a time when they need to take a stand and say 'enough is enough'. I would hate to see the airline go Ch. 7, but something has to give. I know DL has cut their losses dramatically over 2004, but mgt. needs to look in other places to cut costs. I only wish they would look back to Lorenzo and EA, there are many lessons to be learned there, EA did not die in vain. I have a ROA-ATL-PHL flight with them on the 16th, I would hate to see them fold, but I cannot blame the pilots for striking either.


User currently offlineAirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5182 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 2):
Keep picketing guys...someone needs to shine some light on that kangaroo court that hangs out at the G.O.

DeltaGuy, you could not be more correct!



If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
25 Post contains images DeltaGuy : Haha, I didn't even notice it till you told me...thanks for noticing then But I do agree...the picketing signs that say "it's not the cost of fuel, i
26 2H4 : I don't think the pilots are basing the strike on emotions. I'll let a Delta employee correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me they're basing it o
27 AirlineAV8tr : I just got of the phone with one of the two uncles I have flying for DL. He has been there 17 years, and says: "I started over with Eastern, and it lo
28 MX757 : The bottom line here is Leadership. If Delta's executives are not willing to forego more pay and benefits cuts ("The Golden Parachute") how can they e
29 DeltaGuy : ^^^ what he said ^^^ When Jerry initially took the helm, he surprised an already group of weary employees by reducing his pay and forgoing bonuses, et
30 Legacytravel : I too ladies and gentleman had to take 3 different paycuts back in the 90's to try and save our union jobs from being outsourced to China and Mexico.
31 Antoniemey : That 3-14 Million could pay a lot of CSA's, Rampers, Caterers, and F/A's for a day's work, and that WOULD make a difference. It could also buy a lot
32 Wukka : Look DL guys; I paid a more than decent fare to fly on your airline at a premium fare later this afternoon. If I get stuck with your employees that vo
33 TL8490 : Reality is that the pilot profession has been devalued. It is not just Delta ..look at NW right now. You can make the arguement that Southwest pays mo
34 Delta07 : This is slightly off-topic but I have a friend who was a flight attendant supervisor in the office (not sure of what the title is). Notice, I said "wa
35 Alitalia744 : Hard as it is to say this being a loyal DL flyer, but looks like I better start using my SkyMiles pretty quickly.
36 Luv2fly : This work group you speak of was THE very last to open there wallet and give up dollars to help the company. They stalled as long as humanly possible
37 Ptharris : So, we've heard the percentage paycuts.... so, what is the going pay rate of pilots now? Are the pilots afraid to post this? I'm surprised nobody has
38 Ual777 : They aren't striking. They are doing informative picketing. Go have your employer take half of what you make, cut your health benefits, and axe your
39 Post contains links Bucky707 : Comparing captain hourly pay rates for the same size airplane, the A320, B737NG and in some cases the 717, here is what you come up with. All numbers
40 Post contains images 2H4 : Does he know something we don't know? 2H4
41 Bucky707 : don't know what you mean. But, for United the pay rate is the same for a 320 or 737, so I posted it that way.
42 Lufthansa : I can here the fat lady singing. Hurry up and shut her down. DL management have come up with some good ideas, largely as a result of the song experien
43 Post contains images Piercey : Obviously not. To late, eh? ATL - either FL or UA SLC - F9 or CO CVG - WN is being smoltered and turned into cash for DL employees..... Then I woke u
44 DeltaMD88 : I have travel booked with DL on the 16th and 19th of March. IF DL folds say on the 1st of March, will my tickets be accepted on another Skyteam (or an
45 Bucky707 : you are safe. Negotiations will go on until March 1st, and if there is no deal, the arbitrators have up to 45 days from that time to decide whether o
46 Positiverate : Exactly. It wasn't like the pilot group was chomping at the bit to help out. They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the table. Back during
47 Bucky707 : not true. Tell me, who took a pay cut prior to the pilots and how much was it? Do the research and get back to me.
48 Revelation : If you take a 32% cut then another 14% cut, you end up with a 42% cut, not a 50% cut, not that you feel all that much better about it. All these thre
49 Bucky707 : very true. But its not the pay rates that have been cut 50%. The total value of our contract, when you include pension cuts, vacation cuts, work rule
50 Post contains images Ptharris : Yeah, they will be asking that if the demise actually happens. That was actually aimed at the pilots, not the rest of the hard working folks there at
51 Luv2fly : Check with all the non union Delta employees who had no choice but to take the forced on them pay cuts.
52 Bucky707 : yep, they did. But their first pay cut was one month after the pilots. I hope you have another source though. Don't take my word for it, and don't ta
53 DeltaMD88 : Instead of cutting pay why dont they look to other things, for example their rather high number of CRJ's, the new ACY-ATL route is operating on a CRJ,
54 Post contains images 2H4 : Oh, I was just referring to the 737 part of "United 320/737", and imagining a 737 in United service. 2H4
55 Supa7e7 : You are speaking as if pilots enjoy moral superiority. Do they? Look up capitalism in the dictionary. Look, Delta pilots live on Pluto when it comes
56 Supa7E7 : That's very interesting. You should tell your lawyers to amend the contracts of the executives you employ in your company. Oh, what's that? You don't
57 AirlineAV8tr : Um, That IS the real truth! Sorry you did'nt make a #1 salary in the industry like the pilots did, but is that their fault? They saw excellent pay, g
58 Lufthansa : One of the things this fundimentally ignores is the fact that the current management can only work with what is in place. If they got together, had a
59 AirlineAV8tr : I completely agree with you on this. Unfortunately, either ticket prices need to rise, or a major airline needs to fall.
60 Positiverate : I don't work for an airline. I would have said thank you, then had half the sense to see where the industry was going post 9/11 and, when my company
61 FlyingDoc : As a frequent, loyal DL flyer over several years, this has been very sad for all concerned. I don't really take a side other than I hope that the comp
62 AirlineAV8tr : If you don't see a multi-million dollar severance package, while all other groups are sacrificing pay, and time as "crooked", then I don't know what
63 AirlineAV8tr : Then I completely understand why your view is such!
64 777PURSER : That is your own fault for not wanting one... Delta workers voted against getting unionizes over and over as They were comfortable like a fat cat sit
65 MX757 : CLE is not going anywhere anytime soon. CO signed a 10 year lease with CLE airport authority for terminal and hanger use and landing rights.
66 AirlineAV8tr : While that comment upsets me, I have to acknowlege that your statement is absolutely correct. DL pilots had great pay, and work rules- so why get ALP
67 Chgoflyer : Maybe if the picket long enough they can just close it. Perhaps their union heads could study how the IAM killed Eastern so they get it just right. Im
68 Mariner : In the case of Delta, the shareholders have very few - if any - rights. The company is owned by the creditors. mariner
69 Revelation : Just because something is "legit" doesn't mean it is fair or right. You live in a very binary world, don't you, Supa? In any case, the workers "own"
70 FlyDeltaJets : ACS, TechOPs, FA's, DTechnology, DGS, Contract companies: Aramark, LFS, Gate Gourmet, Aviation Safeguards, Gate Safe. This is an extensive but partia
71 Lufthansa : It isn't as simple as that because if that were the case, then, the could also as easily be replaced.... and we all know what kinda uproar would happ
72 DeltaGuy : If you knock the feet out from under the employees like they're doing now, you have noone motivated enough to go work for you. We're not concerned wi
73 FlyDeltaJets : Please Let me know when this vote occured
74 Post contains images Ptharris : Better to make them sit and squirm while the barn burns? Yeah, you work on that and let us all know how that works out in the long run. Eastern did t
75 Positiverate : Exactly: I look at it from an objective and practical standpoint. Educate me: which managers, from the Directors position on up, have taken pay raise
76 Alitalia744 : If all of you DL pilots are so pissed off, then just strike already. Yes, you're putting 50,000 or so others out of a job right away, but so what, you
77 AirlineAV8tr : Funny, that seems to be your stance on pilots. Do you really believe that they should give up more, just because they're payed well from day 1? Have
78 Antoniemey : Actually, you need to remove a lot of RJs in Delta's case. That plus a fare structure based on a "Cost plus" system, where the cheapest fare will sti
79 Positiverate : See, this is where your argument goes right off the rails. I don't fault the pilots for anything, except for not accepting how markets work. There is
80 AirlineAV8tr : So the fact that they have been working for 10 years on an income that has afforded them luxuries, means that they're the ones to target? Management,
81 Positiverate : Please. The RLA process is, in this day and age, weighted towards labor. It's a "strike-threat system" that allows labor to effectively put a gun to
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