Stl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3161 times:
Southwest has hubs? Southwest says they don't have hubs, but I think you can call PHX, MDW, and LAS, to name a few, somewhat of a hub(s). Yes, Southwest has 67 daily flights in STL while AA mainline has around 58-59 mainline flights. I don't know if your question is disregarding AA Connection, but that is what I'm assuming.
Chrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 869 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3027 times:
i just noticed this the other day.....
if you go to the southwest route-map on their webite and look at all the non-stops they have out of LAS, its hard not to call that their hub! IIRC, i counted only 13 of their total destinations are NOT served nonstop from LAS.
Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
TxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2929 times:
Southwest has no hubs per se, they have a totally different model altogether.
"They have a totally different model"
(a slight plagiarism from the classic film "Airplane")
Most of you all are too young to remember Governor Huey P. Long of Louisiana.
The constant refrain from his administration, as well as his campaign slogan, was "every man a king."
Think of Southwest that way - every station a hub.
That's not entirely true, but here's what it boils down to.
Southwest puts planes on routes as supported by O&D traffic.
Some stations support more flights than others, to more destinations.
Cities like that support a lot of connections.
Southwest doesn't schedule based on connecting traffic, those opportunities just happen.
Yes, there are published connections in their schedule at places like MAF, LBB, AMA. That doesn't mean they are hubs. But LAS, PHX, HOU, MDW, & BWI are not hubs in the truest sense of the word.
Instead of a plethora of hubs, look at WN as a big collection of robust focus cities. Using the accepted definition, that's what they really are.
And it may be a matter of semantics, really. But a true hub & spoke system's focus is the connecting traffic. That's not how WN looks at .any of their stations. They build their schedule based on the passenger loads, and the connections are secondary
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2679 times:
Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 5): if you go to the southwest route-map on their webite and look at all the non-stops they have out of LAS, its hard not to call that their hub! IIRC, i counted only 13 of their total destinations are NOT served nonstop from LAS.
A designation of a hub has nothing to do with the number of flights a carrier has. A hub is passengers transfering between banks of flight at an airport to reach their final destination. Southwest does not schedule its flights to connect in banks.
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2602 times:
Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 7): Southwest doesn't schedule based on connecting traffic, those opportunities just happen.
Which, to me at least, is identified by the unofficial term "incidental hub." Which carries a very different meaning from the grossly inefficient high cost banked hubs of the legacies which the same seem determined to take to the proverbial grave with them. Though Southwest has what might be considered incidental hubs -- where connection possibilities "just happen" -- they have nothing that even remotely resembles the banked hubs-by-design of the legacies.
ATL, in fact, began its life as Delta's hub by their observation that connecting opportunities "just happen" when an airline has numerous flights to, from and through a particular airport. As always, leave it to the legacies to take a good idea and ruin it with excesses, such as making aircraft utilization and operational efficiencies captive to the need to schedule flights to arrive and depart in droves from an airport at the same times. Beside inviting congestion and delays, facilities and staff are pushed to their limits (and often beyond) for 1-2 hours at several intervals each day, while the same facilities become virtually deserted at other daytime hours. Not how it started for DL at ATL or NW at MSP or fill in the blanks with any legacy and their hub(s) but what it was allowed to become by typical legacy management who seem forever inclined to turn a sound idea into a self-defeating monstrosity -- sort'a like the person who mistakenly assumes that if taking one aspirin every four hours has good results, taking ten every four hours will be even better, which, of course, is anything but true in the long run.
So far, at least, it seems that Southwest has no inclinations toward creating anything resembling a banked hub. None other than Southwest's current CEO has even stated clearly that they prefer as much as possible to take pax from point A to point B non-stop or at least direct (same aircraft making one or more stops in going from A to B), for at least three very simple reasons: customers prefer to go non-stop, it costs less to carry pax on one flight, and it costs considerably more to take pax between A and B on two flights.
This, hopefully will help clear up some of the confusion over semantics. The "hubs" of Southwest are indeed so worlds apart from the hubs of the legacies as to question whether the same term can correctly be used for both. When referring to "Southwest's hubs," it is only proper to add the adjective "incidental" to differentiate their operations from the very different "banked" hubs of the legacies.
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2598 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9): A designation of a hub has nothing to do with the number of flights a carrier has. A hub is passengers transfering between banks of flight at an airport to reach their final destination. Southwest does not schedule its flights to connect in banks.
Well, in that case, I guess one could say South West's hub is the United States.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2298 times:
Just for the record; according to a report by Citigroup and confirmed by Southwest Spokesperson Linda Rutherford, Chicago Midway is expected to overtake Las Vegas as Southwest airport with the most departures by 2007.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2210 times:
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 9): As always, leave it to the legacies to take a good idea and ruin it with excesses, such as making aircraft utilization and operational efficiencies captive to the need to schedule flights to arrive and depart in droves from an airport at the same times.
Thankfully, this is a trend that is being reversed of late in the airline industry, as more and more airlines (led by AA at ORD and then DFW) have been depeaking their largest hubs (only the largest ones that have large enough O&D bases to support it) and changing around the proverbial equation so that, as the saying goes, "the planes aren't waiting for the people, the people are waiting for the planes."