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What Will Planes Fly On Once Oil Runs Out?  
User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 390 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17523 times:

I was reading the other that oil is set to run out fairly soon, with the last drop of oil being used in 37 years time. Very soon, if it has not ocurred already, production will reach its peak and actually start decreasing year by year (whilst demand continues to increase, you can imagine what will happen to prices, in fact this is already happening).

In 18 years time yearly oil production could be half what it is today, which would obviously lead to extreme shortages and oil prices far too high to sustain most of today's air traffic. That's without taking into account possible wars for control over the remaining petroleum, and the general effect on the world's economy.

So, to avoid most air services from being stopped within the next 20-30 years, we would have to switch an alternative fuel. So my question to those of you that might have some knowledge in this areas is: is there one? Can planes fly on anything else, or will the end of oil also be the end of avaition?

[Edited 2006-02-18 23:32:48]

127 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17516 times:

Surely it will not be the end of aviation, but we haven't developed the new technology today. Sadly, many businesses involved are not enough forward thinking to start worrying about this problem now. How many CEOs and management teams, as well as investors and researchers, want to pour money into something (affecting their financial numbers negatively right now) for something that may only be valuable 20-40 years from now (most likely long after they're not longer involved with the company)?

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 17476 times:

When I was a kid, I had this neat plane with a rubber band propeller. It worked!
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSeanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17448 times:

Biodiesel? It can be made from algae. Plus it would burn nicely in turbines.

User currently offlineN742AT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 46 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17432 times:

Well it would be nice if H2O was an option, but since it isnt solar is always a thought. Planes do see a lot of sun so its an option.

User currently offlineIanatstn From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17432 times:

Would be interesting to hear the ideas for the new types of fuel.

Would also be interested in hearing what would happen to the aircraft already in service, how much of a job would it be to reconfigure all existing aircraft to run off newer fuels? Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Ian.



Ian@STN ::
User currently offlineMoparman From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17420 times:

Ummm... LOL!! Where are you getting this idea that the world is running out of oil? There are enormous reserves in Russia; there are enormous reserves in South America; the largest reserves (and also the most expensive to get to) are in North America. By the time it does run out, current estimates range from 200-500 years at current consumption, there will be other sources of power for aircraft (and spacecraft).


"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
User currently offlineNateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17402 times:

Actually, we are never going to "run out" of oil.

It may get too expensive relative to other energy sources, but we will never exhaust the world's oil resources. A superior alternative will be developed, I have no doubt.

[Edited 2006-02-19 00:12:09]


Set Love Free
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17389 times:

I say we just sit it out and wait a few million years and...just like that.... we'll have enormous quantities of oil again ready for our consumption!

Regarding solar, though... would never work. Panels are too heavy.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17354 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Regarding solar, though... would never work. Panels are too heavy.



Quoting http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0407_050407_solarairplanes.html:
NASA's Helios prototype solar-powered airplane flies over the Pacific Ocean near Hawaii. Solar cells on the craft's 247-foot (75-meter) wings supply the plane with electricity to power its propellers.

Photograph courtesy NASA



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17330 times:

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Thread starter):
I was reading the other that oil is set to run out fairly soon, with the last drop of oil being used in 37 years time. Very soon, if it has not ocurred already, production will reach its peak and actually start decreasing year by year (whilst demand continues to increase, you can imagine what will happen to prices, in fact this is already happening).

In 18 years time yearly oil production could be half what it is today, which would obviously lead to extreme shortages and oil prices far too high to sustain most of today's air traffic. That's without taking into account possible wars for control over the remaining petroleum, and the general effect on the world's economy.

Your premise that we will run out of oil in the next 30 years is wrong. While the easily extracted oil we have been using may run out, the vast majority of our oil deposits have not been tapped. Just in the last few years the oil sands of Alberta have been tapped and the oil shale if the USA have not been tapped at all. True, fuel will cost more, but it will be available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_sands

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale


User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 17324 times:

Quoting Moparman (Reply 6):
Where are you getting this idea that the world is running out of oil? There are enormous reserves in Russia; there are enormous reserves in South America; the largest reserves (and also the most expensive to get to) are in North America. By the time it does run out, current estimates range from 200-500 years at current consumption, there will be other sources of power for aircraft (and spacecraft).

Here are a couple of news articles and links about the subject:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/10/02/global.warming/

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
http://www.oilcrisis.com/magoon/
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/OilRunningOut.php


User currently offlineCRJ705 From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17259 times:

I asked my professor in Chemistry about the subject of oil running out. He basically laughed at me and said that if our reserves of easy to get oil runs out, we can always reform other hydrocarbons (coal comes into mind) and we can extract oil from the oil sands in Alberta as well as the Oil Shales in Colorado (I think thats where it is, please forgive me if I am wrong). My professor also said that as we have come to say that we will run out of oil, more is being discovered. Besides, we have enough oil at current production rates to last us a while, and if oil does run out, no doubt we would come up with alternatives to oil or use existing technology and techniques, despeite their lower yields. So the question of oil running out is a scenario that we must consider, but it is not something that we need to be too worried about.

Regards
CRJ705


User currently offlineSeanp11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17259 times:

These guys probably don't believe that a number of aquifers in the west are in danger of running out, and the surrounding rivers do not have enough flow to supply all the population centers in danger. We are running out of resources. To say that wont happen is asinine.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17244 times:

[quote=Seanp11,reply=13]We are running out of resources. To say that wont happen is asinine.
[/quote
Of course we are running out. We just disagree on WHEN we will exhaust the supply.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17213 times:

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 3):
Biodiesel? It can be made from algae. Plus it would burn nicely in turbines.

Biodiesel can and has been grown via plants. It is just an ordinary plant, has a flower, stem, leaf etc.

There are very, very few of these fields left. There used to be many a few years back, but sadly the 'Perfume' is too strong and would cause an Asthma attack for all asthmatics that went anywhere near it.

It is still possible, but would probably have to be grown in masssive enclosures like the 'Eden Project' but to fuel 50-100 aircraft, i think it would take the space of the 'Eden Project'. Considering how many aircraft there are, you would probably need an area the size of the UK with plants growing all year round to fullfil the requirements.

Thanks
Mike

Edit: Cars can be run on alcohol aswell, but i think this is just Ethanol.

[Edited 2006-02-19 01:25:16]

User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17192 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 9):
SATX

If your happy to fly over the atlantic in that thing go ahead be my guest im going no-where near that thing.  Wink

Their are massive massive companies out there earning gazzilions, you really think they are going to go bust!?! No, when the time is right they will pour money into research to find the cheapest soloution for everyone, their not going to let some oil make them bust.
They probably already have developed some sort of replacement and just not released it so that other companies dont copy. The world will never really resort to solar, Wind, Tidal etc because liek some have said its too much effort do so little.

Rgds --James--

P.S. I hope that made sense and I didnt just babble on



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8090 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17171 times:

Dude that's a solid flying wing. Try putting it on a fusulage with passengers, freight, baggage, etc. etc. etc. It wouldn't work.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineTjc2 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17165 times:

Although not strictly aviation, i feel this is relative to this topic:

I visited the World Centre for Joining (nr Cambridge, UK) which deals with a lot of 'joining' on a variety of scales. One of which was the micro-soldering/welding on micro-circuit boards, the kind incorporated in mobile telephones. Though in a vague fashion; our guide explained how the technology of mobile phones is leagues further than what is available to the public. It is not available yet because there is no need to bring it out when the current market of video/multimedia phones are making so much money for operators & service providers.

In this sense, If you look at the Oil Industry, it is one of the most lucrative in the world. Now I don't know exactly when the oil is going 'run out', but I don't think the companies would stop using it up (until the very last drop) unless it was truly evident that it was just about to, in a relative sense, run out.

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Thread starter):
That's without taking into account possible wars for control over the remaining petroleum

Don't forget that technology advances vastly during war. Look at WW1 and WW2 for instance. Two sides circumventing each other creating new technology of their own, and at the same time trying to develop means to be one up on the others.

I think this area of the future of aviation a very interesting discussion point and would like to read other peoples views on the matter.

enjoy,
coop



The only time I made a mistake was when I thought I was wrong...
User currently offlineN5176Y From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 17160 times:

Necessity is the mother of invention.

User currently offlineTifoso From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17127 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
, many businesses involved are not enough forward thinking to start worrying about this problem now.

We really need government money to further new energy sources. Not many CEOs are going to invest in research when they can do something else and show Wall Street better earnings and profits.

One cool solution would be nuclear. I wonder if we can make it safe enough for aviation.  Smile


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21414 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17100 times:

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Thread starter):
I was reading the other that oil is set to run out fairly soon, with the last drop of oil being used in 37 years time

They've been saying this since the 70s. Over a generation away is always the number, as it's far enough in the future that anyone who claims it will be retired before it doesn't come true.

I was just watching "The Man With The Golden Gun" and the whole premise of that 70s film is that oil is running out and there is this new solar technology that is 95% efficient and would solve the "energy crisis." Neither of those things have come to pass 30 years later. Must be one long crisis...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLhrmaccoll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17076 times:

Biodiesel. The way of the future. If you can run props on it, the technology will soon arise for turbines. 100% clean. 100% renewable.
Superb.


User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17063 times:

Quoting Tjc2 (Reply 18):
Don't forget that technology advances vastly during war. Look at WW1 and WW2 for instance. Two sides circumventing each other creating new technology of their own, and at the same time trying to develop means to be one up on the others.

The reason that technology has advanced so quickly this century is precisely because of oil. The difference between world war 1 and 2 in terms of technology is enormous, but if you think about it all of this technology was developed from oil: tanks, planes, etc. The F16s of today and even America's latest stealth fighters or cruise missiles are powered by the same fuel as those used in WW1.

In 100 years we haven't found an alternative, and we need it to be ready in 20 years or the whole industry is going to go into decline and ultimately collapse - not just a few, but almost all of the airlines will go bankrupt and there will be no flights. At least, not for most of us if a ticket from London to New York costs 20,000$.

Nobody even knows if it is possible to fuel this industry with something else. What is the point of planning to build new airports which will open in 2020 or so, if at that point the industry will be in decline and perhaps only have a maximum of 20 years of life left. At that point all of these new terminals might as well be demolished.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 10):
Your premise that we will run out of oil in the next 30 years is wrong. While the easily extracted oil we have been using may run out, the vast majority of our oil deposits have not been tapped. Just in the last few years the oil sands of Alberta have been tapped and the oil shale if the USA have not been tapped at all. True, fuel will cost more, but it will be available.

Regarding the oil sands etc, this is in fact taken into account in prediction of 37 years. These will be used last of course, once we run out of petrol in its liquid form, but a certain amount of energy is needed to extract the petrol from the oil sands and other solid sources. It is another factor which will increase the price of oil before it completely runs out. If you need to use a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil, it is futile, which means that in fact it is physically impossible for us to use all of the oil that exists on the planet.

Apart from the solar plane idea, which I find interesting but I don't see ever replacing a 747 (which is what we need), has anyone got any other ideas?


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 17051 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
I was just watching "The Man With The Golden Gun" and the whole premise of that 70s film is that oil is running out and there is this new solar technology that is 95% efficient and would solve the "energy crisis." Neither of those things have come to pass 30 years later. Must be one long crisis...

so was I.............!

along with Stromberg, Scramanga was always one of my favourites........

I'm not so sure about Daniel Craig as the newest James Bond member, I very much liked Pierce Brosnan...he was a phenomenal James Bond.



"Up the Irons!"
25 Post contains images Dogfighter2111 : Actually Biodiesel is not 100% clean. It has less carbon emmisions that lead to Global Warming etc. and will still pollute the atmosphere. It is stil
26 Post contains links Peterinlisbon : This something which is needed now and nothing has been invented. If companies do not want to invest in developing this sort of new technology now wh
27 Post contains links and images SATX : Oh, you mean like this... First try and figure out where you're going to store the aircraft for the next million years. Then figure out how to make i
28 AirlineAV8tr : Catapult launch a new 300 pax glider maybe? In all seriousness, new alternative fuels are advancing rapidly, and new fossil fuel deposits are being di
29 David b. : Is there a way to extract oil from human sh*t?
30 Jacobin777 : turd is basically nitrogen, which doesn't do anything in terms of oil/gas/petroleum, which is basically carbon and hyrdogen
31 Post contains images VEEREF : Can you say "Mad Max"??
32 L-188 : Your professor was right to laugh. In 5 years you are going to see E85 blends common in the US. The recent gas spike made those plants profitable, an
33 NWADC9 : I guarentee you that planes will most likely be obsolete by then...
34 Post contains images Malaysia : The Glorious days will return..... no not Aviation Nuclear planes are not a safe idea, but these can handle the operation easier and safer. [Edited 20
35 Alaska737 : i can see the terrorists just rubbing their hands together....jk
36 Flywithjohn : Well planes wil stop flyign for a little while. Until they figure out how to make moonshine fuel. "why waste good moonshine flying one of these shit b
37 SSTsomeday : An alternative to oil (and the pollution it creates) could be ultra high speed trains I've heard about. I have read about transcontinental trains that
38 UA772IAD : Not only that, but from grease. If Biodiesel were to be used, think of the deals Fast Food corporations could make with petrolium companies, airlines
39 L-188 : No it isn't. Any estimates usually are based on current technology for extraction, and don't allow for improvement in milage, efficencies in the use
40 SATX : Why would they? Here in the US the average vehicle on the road gets WORSE mileage than twenty years ago!
41 Oftwftwoab : Oil is not going to run out in 37 years. We haven't even reached peak production yet, and there will be a long tail off. These kind of figures are alw
42 Post contains images Morvious : When I was a kid I heard the storys to.. Off course we are running short of oil one day, but predictions like 30-35 years is just to make fuel prices
43 Tifoso : They are called Maglev (Magnetic levitation) trains.
44 Oryx : The diesel itself is 100 percent clean as it is only burned what was taken out of the envirenment before. The only source of pullution is during the
45 Hmmmm... : It doesn't cost a barrel of oil to get a barrel of oil from the oil sands. Alberta is currently producing oil from the sands and getting rich off it.
46 Tjwgrr : I for one am glad we're going to run out of oil- finally an end to those nasty chemtrails..... I'll sleep better now.
47 Hmmmm... : As far as using shit to make fuel, yes, that is becoming an industry: In China, for example, some five million households are equipped with biogas dig
48 Post contains images Sllevin : I figured we'd just use all the hot air from a.net to power aircraft... Steve
49 Idlewild : I have seen the suture of alternative fuels. It is called "Soylent Green".....
50 Post contains images Boeing7E7 : 1. Last time I checked, there was more shale (sp) oil available than you can shake a stick at, getting it for less than $80 a barrel was cost prohibit
51 WhiteHatter : Short term it is a case of using what's available more efficiently rather than just pissing it away. Longer term, new technologies we haven't even beg
52 Rampart : As noted above, "turd" is actually mostly hydrocarbon. It, like any organic substance, decomposes into methane and other larger HC molecules... hence
53 WhiteHatter : it's easily converted into methane, which can be used to make electricity or compressed for storage. There are plenty of farms which use slurry tanks
54 777236ER : Biofuels are not 100% clean. You'll still get NOx production, and in slightly higher quantities than kerosene. Lends itself to gas turbines though.
55 Art : My take on this: oil will never actually run out. It may become uneconomic to extract it from the ground. Setting aside all pollution and global warmi
56 Zbrox : I.G.Y. (International Geophysical Year) By Donald Fagen "On that train all graphite and glitter Undersea by rail Ninety minutes from New York to Pari
57 Poitin : Why use oil to cook the tar out of the sand, when all you need is a nuclear pile? All things concerned, we are going to nuclear power over the next 5
58 Peterinlisbon : No, in fact it will be one of the first to run out. North Sea oil has already peaked. The last remaining oil fields will be in the Middle East, mainl
59 WhiteHatter : One method of attacking the NOx problem has been the Camden Council project. Their streets have been paved in certain areas with new paving which con
60 Post contains links Poitin : I strongly urge you to go to Wikipedia and read about oil shale. You are confusing easy-to-pump-out-of-ground oil with the reality of shale oil. http
61 Zbrox : But that is......PEOPLE!!!!
62 Peterinlisbon : Regarding oil shales: The average citizen . . . is led to believe that the United States really has no oil supply problem when oil shales hold "recove
63 Post contains images N766UA : That has no fusulage to speak of and none of the freight, baggage I had in mind. And unless you want 1 person paying 100,000 for airfare I don't thin
64 FlyDreamliner : 200-500 years is completely ignorant. If you look at it from an economical and practical point of view, within 50-100 years, oil will no longer be pr
65 WhiteHatter : Hydrogen tech is a very interesting way to go, after all the Russians modified a Tu-154 for testing out hydrogen powered flight. Before all the 21st
66 SATX : What a typical pro-nuclear argument you have there. If people disagree with spending government money on nuclear power, just question their manhood.
67 Hmmmm... : The earth will never run out of a supply of cheap energy in the ground. There is already a supply of cheap energy right under your feet. It's called g
68 FlyDreamliner : Geothermal is nice. The whole earth could be powered by wind power, but for portable power, we need something. Oil has fit that well. We'll figure som
69 L-188 : That is actually a misleading figure, I have seen stats that show that the average US car-which now weights about the same as a car in the 1970's get
70 WhiteHatter : The major issue here is the investment required for large energy programs. We still have too many people in places of power who actively resist capit
71 Post contains images OPNLguy : Either someone will figure out a way to make jet fuel out of sea water, or else these things will be perfected...
72 Seanp11 : Iceland has the advantage of being situated on both a mantle plume (hot spot) and the mid-atlantic ridge. To say you have to drill further down in ot
73 Post contains images A5XX : Ya wanna be the first to try it?
74 Post contains images Tjc2 : I reckon this is the most likely route which will be taken good man... I reckon the governments will suddenly realise that oil is uneconomic and will
75 777-200 : Chocolate. 772
76 Post contains links Poitin : I would like to know where you get this dribble. At this time they are producing oil in Alberta for about $15 USD per barrel and producing about 1/3
77 SATX : It's not just a 'figure' it's also a FACT. Which part is misleading exactly? The net amount of fuel used by the average vehicle on the road today is
78 SSTsomeday : [quote=OPNLguy,reply=71]Either someone will figure out a way to make jet fuel out of sea water, or else these things will be perfected... Re: the tran
79 Post contains images Poitin : Actually, Boeing is working on them. This is Keesje, who recently defected to Boeing, explaining the transporter beam Boeing is going to announce on
80 Post contains links Peterinlisbon : Here is quite an interesting article about Oil Shale. http://www.energybulletin.net/11707.html
81 AirlineAV8tr : Passenger travel on ships and ferries is the most dangerous means of transportation known to man! More people die in ferry accidents than any other f
82 Peterinlisbon : Replacements for jet fuel: Nuclear - uranium is running out as well, in any case it's too dangerous Electricity - batteries would be too heavy Solar -
83 Poitin : " target=_blank>http://www.energybulletin.net/11707.html What about the oil sands that are in production? As I said, nuclear power was needed for oil
84 Malaysia : This thread has become a sad state, cause we are advancing now at a much slower pace nowadays than in the early 20th century where we went from paper
85 Seanp11 : I assume you mean natural gas, and the current fields are not supposed to last much longer than the petroleum fields. There are supposed to be deposi
86 Derekone : if non of these makes it. Then vegetable oil just kidding
87 AAden : ha ha vegtable oil it works with cars
88 Post contains links Concentriq : in the future, there will be no planes: teleportation (long thought to be only a sci-fi notion) will make it possible to instantly move people and goo
89 AndesSMF : Congratulations on everybody for such an interesting subject. Now I will provide my two cents worth. We will not run out of oil, and maybe never run o
90 FVTu134 : Quite funny how you all tend to stick to the oil or oil variant idea. Oil is not without limits and even though Russia, Iraq and to a lesser extent th
91 AM744 : We can grow corn to no end. I don't think so. Soil has its limits too... also lots of fertilizers would be needed, and water and...
92 Thorny : Do keep in mind that 1964 was the height of the nuclear arms race, with atomic tests being carried out regularly. Whatever plutonium contamination ma
93 Boeing7E7 : So, just for the sake of argument..... If we are slated to run out of oil, then doesn't that throw a monkey wrench into the global warming argument? S
94 Post contains links SATX : Ever heard of coal? Field burning? Waste incineration? Methane from agriculture? Nitrous oxide from manufacturing? Massive deforestation? The list go
95 L-188 : Most of these outer planet space probes wouldn't have been able to work, or would have to go with much less science on board if they didn't have them.
96 Tornado82 : No, it hasn't accounted for 37 years, I work the industry indirectly, and you're wrong, period. If you build these vacuum tubes, where do you get the
97 SSTsomeday : Good Question, but I don't think the engineers would see that challenge as the end of the debate. Otherwise it would not have garnered so much study
98 Post contains links Peterinlisbon : Apparently the fuel for nuclear power, uranium, is running out as well, so it´s not quite that simple. Here's what I could find out about oil sands.
99 Peterinlisbon : Exactly. We need to find something to avoid our civilisation from disintegrating once oil runs. I'm not against any of these options, what I'm saying
100 Post contains links ER757 : Good point - there are some who even believe that these companies are actually suppressing alternatives for the time being while they squeeze out eve
101 Thorny : Clinton funded the Cassini mission to Saturn and approved its launch (in 1997). The New Horizons mission to Pluto, launched last month, also was firs
102 Poitin : As for me, I am tired of Peterinlisbon's lack of understanding, knowledge, and most of all, willingness to learn. Time for a new thread.
103 Peterinlisbon : Willingness to learn = willingness to agree with you? I think you're missing the point. What matters is how much it costs. Ok, we could eventually tu
104 Ariis : Once we run out of oil, it will practically mean the end of the modern world as we know it so I wouldn't worry too much about flying in particular. F
105 Tornado82 : Exactly this is your unwillingness to learn. How many times in this thread has it been said that oil shales cost $80/bbl approximately? We were alrea
106 Peterinlisbon : I hope you're right about Oil Shale. But I think whether or not the industry has a future is relevant.
107 Boeing7E7 : Says you. I tend to side on reason. Eventually the resources reach a point of depletion that causes a shift and the Earth then gets even. Everything
108 Tornado82 : Thank You!!!! Nothing irks me more, with knowledge of the science, than people thinking our recorded history of climate here on Earth is enough to kn
109 SATX : Eventually the sun will engulf the earth and the universe will eventually cool to absolute zero and then everything will stop. And? What on earth doe
110 L-188 : I've seen lower figures, more on the order of $45. But I do believe that is based on operating surface shale mines. The deep rock will of course cost
111 Tornado82 : Clean Air Act and Global Warming were two different issues in its time. It was looking for things like the LA Basin smog problems, Pittsburgh being t
112 Boeing7E7 : Bummer... But it's bound to happen and dancing with special stones in your hand to save the world isn't going to stop it either. Who says we'll even
113 BHXFAOTIPYYC : 1. I'm pretty sure that Brazil has already certified an a/c to operate on ethanol which they grow from sugar cane. 2. Jeremy Clarkeson on BBC's Top Ge
114 ODwyerPW : When we reach peak oil all of this is irrelevant. Most of humanity will have beaten each other senseless in an attempt to capture the last bit of oil
115 L-188 : Yup, in fact Brazil is trying to go to all ethanol on their motor vehicles.
116 Seanp11 : We are not "still recovering" from the last ice age. The temperature of the earth has been mostly constant for the whole holocene (past 8000 years),
117 AirFrnt : There are a variety of future energy sources. The Colorado Oil Shale is a huge prospect, and here is a huge boom right now out here in Colorado by com
118 Peterinlisbon : Thank you all for your input. I feel less worried now about the future and I believe that we will make it, although it will be difficult. My conclusio
119 Post contains images Goaliemn : Based on the number of times in the last 75 years people have said we'll be out of oil in 20-30-40 years, I don't think anyone has any clue. I've hear
120 SATX : His was among the last administrations still openly contesting global warming and the premise that it's likely manmade. Who is still on the "global w
121 Nzrich : Well a New Zealand inventor Archie Blue managed to get a car that runs purely on water by the extraction of water ..An alledged offer of $500 million
122 Post contains images Mrocktor : No, we need the government to stay the hell out of business is what we need. Biodiesel is not "clean". We have not been looking for an alternative, s
123 NA : Any energy who´s reserves end within a short time (and the oil reserves will be consumed in a very short time, less than 200 years from the early beg
124 Mrocktor : So many groundless assertions in so short a text. "Short time" needs to be relative to some standard. The reasonable standard is the rate of technolo
125 HBJZA : Of course it has been developped yet and kind of "fuel" you wouldn't even imagine. But as soon it is developped, the big petroleum groups rush to buy
126 NA : One Chernobyl-size desaster again and even you will see this differently. The crux with Nuclear energy is that a single accident could change the wor
127 Post contains images Lindy : Wow, it took 82 replays for somebody to finally meantion about Gas. In Europe you have many cars running on natural gas. If they can't make aviation
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