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Combining US & HP Certificates?

Phxplanes From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1167 times:

I was wondering what has to be done to combine the HP and US certificates. Why does it take around two years. It seems like all they have to do is sign a few papers. What takes so long for this process to happen?

8 replies: All unread, jump to last

Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

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The Operating Certificates will not be combined. When two airlines merge, one of the airlines' o.c. is surrendered and their operations are put under the o.c. of the other airline. When Valujet and AirTran merged, Valujet operated as AirTran Airlines using the Valujet o.c. (Valujet d.b.a. AirTran Airlines) while AirTran operated under theirs as AirTran Airways. Once they were far along enough in the integration of operations, the Valujet o.c. was returned to the F.A.A., the Airlines operation was integrated into the Airways operation, and Valujet was officially no more.

Ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3993 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

From all indications in this instance...HP's will be returned when they are ready to move everything over the US cert.

Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.

TropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1046 times:

Management will take what they "want" from the existing HP certificate and US certificate (i.e. OPS specs and other required manuals) and create a "new US Airways certificate" (all subject to FAA approval).

Planes will need to be modified to match each other (such as cockpit switches, emergency equipment etc.) Pilots, Mechanics and F/A's will need to be retrained to the new standards and the list goes on. That is why it takes a long time and lots of money.

Ouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3993 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 959 times:

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 3):
Management will take what they "want" from the existing HP certificate and US certificate (i.e. OPS specs and other required manuals) and create a "new US Airways certificate" (all subject to FAA approval).

Umm, they've already stated they will be returning the HP certificate and transfering everything to the US cert. There is no creating a "new cert" as you state...yes they will be adding things, but thats about it.

Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.

HPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 909 times:

I still haven't heard a timeline for when the HP certificate will be returned. I know the goal is to have the America West brand dead by the end of the year, I'd say about 30% of the fleet has already been painted in the new colors, and the new US Airways permanent signage (with an America West banner next to it) has been installed at LAS behind the ticket counter. I speak on behalf of many HP employees when I say there will be many tears shed (for both joy and sadness) the day the last HP plane is painted in the new colors.

TropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 874 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 4):
Umm, they've already stated they will be returning the HP certificate and transferring everything to the US cert. There is no creating a "new cert" as you state...yes they will be adding things, but that's about it.

By adding or deleting to the an existing certificate they will have modified that certificate to reflect what they consider the best of HP and US. It is then no longer the original "US" certificate but will reflect the best of both airlines and will not be the exact same certificate except in name of the carrier and certificate number.

The point that I was trying to make (in answer to the first question) on why it takes so long is that it's not just a matter of selecting one existing certificate and adopting it (at least in this and most cases). There are many other issues that must be addressed and those take time. Whose name is on the certificate is a matter of semantics.

Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 89
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 872 times:

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 3):
Planes will need to be modified to match each other (such as cockpit switches, emergency equipment etc.)

I don't believe that to be the case, at least with the cockpit... pilots and crew will just be trained on the differences.

N

TropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 824 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
I don't believe that to be the case, at least with the cockpit... pilots and crew will just be trained on the differences.

If a light or battery switch operates in a different direction or the TCAS use different indicators or features, these differences can cause accidents (especially in an emergency) and that is why they need to standardize for safety. For instance, AA modified the ex-TWA MD-80's to match their own MD-80 cockpits.

Aircraft have crashed because of non-standard cockpits in aircraft and these differences are usually corrected during the 'bridging' 'C' check which the aircraft will have to undergo. At least that is my understanding of how it is supposed to work.

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