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Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10781 times:

Qantas does not want to share LAX-SYD with Singapore Airlines.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...self/2006/02/19/1140283949283.html

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnitedtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
Qantas does not want to share LAX-SYD with Singapore Airlines.

There is a shocker...UA wants it to them selfs too! Wait till AC starts!

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26626 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10770 times:

Quoting Juventus (Thread starter):
Qantas Wants Lucrative LAX-SYD To Itself....

Well, they already don't have it to themselves, but that is a side issue. United operates the route and Air Canada will as well starting next year.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10715 times:

Australia is almost always among the most expensive tickets from SAT. Take a look at the lowest priced, most restricted tickets from SAT over the next few months from Sabre...

$133.00 West Palm Beach, FL
$163.00 Chicago, IL - all
$163.00 Orlando, FL
$171.00 Washington, DC - all
$173.00 El Paso, TX
$173.00 Phoenix, AZ
$181.00 Buffalo, NY
$203.00 Albuquerque, NM
$203.00 Boise, ID
$203.00 Las Vegas, NV
$203.00 Los Angeles, CA
$203.00 Spokane, WA
$209.00 Albany, NY
$213.00 Denver, CO
$213.00 San Francisco, CA
$225.00 Baton Rouge, LA
$231.50 New York, NY - all
$245.00 Cleveland, OH
$263.00 Columbus, OH
$284.00 Paris, France - all
$299.00 Aspen, CO
$299.00 Vail, CO
$306.00 Guadalajara, Mexico
$325.00 Atlanta, GA
$329.00 San Jose del Cabo, Mexico
$330.00 Calgary, Canada
$331.00 Geneva, Switzerland
$331.00 Zurich, Switzerland
$353.00 Montego Bay, Jamaica
$359.00 Acapulco, Mexico
$359.00 Puerto Vallarta, Mexico
$371.00 Rochester, NY
$385.00 Amsterdam, Netherlands
$389.00 Stockholm, Sweden
$403.60 Anchorage, AK
$416.00 Copenhagan, Denmark
$418.00 Berlin, Germany
$418.00 Munich, Germany
$420.00 Edinburgh, Scotland
$438.00 Nassau, Bahamas
$441.00 Cheyenne, WY
$449.00 Burlington, VT
$450.00 Milan, Italy
$450.00 Rome, Italy
$455.00 Nice, France
$459.00 Butte, MT
$463.00 San Juan, Puerto Rico
$482.00 Istanbul, Turkey
$483.00 Dublin, Ireland
$488.00 Athens, Greece
$497.60 Maui, HI
$501.00 Telluride, CO
$504.00 Portland, ME
$537.60 Honolulu, HI
$630.60 Fairbanks, AK
$654.00 Tokyo, Japan
$671.71 Quebec, Canada
$680.00 Shanghai, China
$684.00 Caracas, Venezuela
$711.00 Bangkok, Thailand
$723.00 Taipei, Taiwan
$726.00 Hong Kong, HK
$745.00 Lima, Peru
$755.00 Singapore, SG
$790.00 Tel Aviv, Israel
$863.00 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
$865.00 Buenos Aires, Argentina
$878.00 Cairo, Egypt
$885.00 Jakarta, Indonesia
$907.00 Seoul, South Korea
$910.00 Abu Dhabi, Uae
$934.00 La Paz, Bolivia
$954.00 Santiago, Chile
$969.00 Bangalore, India
$1007.00 Montevideo, Uruguay
$1163.00 Sydney, Australia
$1175.00 Melbourne, Australia

$1211.00 Cape Town, South Africa
$1294.00 Christchurch, New Zealand
$1396.00 Nairobi, Kenya


Good luck if they want my business. Then again, if they fly the A380 to the US first, and the seat pitch is decent, then maybe I'll fly them at some point.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10654 times:

Amazingly they (Qantas) didn't mention about AC which is pretty cool. I guess AC isn't much of a threat to QF unless I'm mistaken. I wonder if SQ will codeshare on AC's flight if they can't get access to SYD-LAX routing?.

User currently offlineTwoLz2Rn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10654 times:

well no duh they want it to themselves!

until UA fixes their IFE, Qantas is my choice


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10591 times:

AC will have their brand new and improvement IFE too on their 767-300ERS, A330-300 and two newer a/c 777s and 787s. Available in AVOD.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10514 times:

A few questions:

1. Will QF be using the A380 on this route?
2. What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

Someone is going to lose on this route. I don't think QF, maybe UA if they don't upgrade their product enough, or perhaps AC. My bet is AC, but we'll see.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10479 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
A few questions:

1. Will QF be using the A380 on this route?
2. What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

Someone is going to lose on this route. I don't think QF, maybe UA if they don't upgrade their product enough, or perhaps AC. My bet is AC, but we'll see.

MEL-LAX and SYD-LAX and SYD-LHR are the three planned routes for now...


I don't think AC is going to lose out..........loyal customer base, not to mention, MUCH nicer, more efficient, and newer planes...

UA better get its act together, or its going to be the loser in this...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25840 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10432 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
Will QF be using the A380 on this route?

Reportedly yes. However it has been written QF will place A380 on the single LAX-MEL sector first instead of the current 3xdaily SYD-LAX route.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

New 777s that start delivery in 2007. AC gained access to the right as part of the new liberalized bilateral negotiated between Canada and the US last year.

Here is Air Canada's press releases.
http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...y=1401250761&view=13213-0&Start=10
Funny enough the Australian Minister of Tourism welcomes the Air Canada service
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060127/wl_canada_afp/australiacanada

At the end of the day, I see Qantas as the bigger looser with Air Canada's entry on the route. I am certain that Air Canada will help supplement United on the route and has coordinated this launch with their Star partner, somewhat similar coordination UA has had with AirNZ when it dropped AKL services, and also has until this year tempered capacity on the LAX-LHR sector in deference of AirNZ.
I also presume this will also allow UA to free and aircraft by not adding the the 2nd supplemental seasonal winter flight it has been running last few years to Australia.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10400 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
What will AC use, and how exactly did they get LAX-SYD authority?

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/australia_e.html


Routes and Associated Rights

CANADA

Points of Origin
Canada

Intermediate Points
San Francisco, Honolulu, Tahiti, Fiji, a point to be agreed

Points in Australia
Sydney. One other point in Australia to be named by Canada.

Points Beyond


Any point or points specified above may be omitted on any or all services, but all services shall originate or terminate in Canada.

1. The additional point in Australia to be named by Canada and the additional point in Canada to be named by Australia shall be any point with an airport designated for international operations.

2. Points to be named by either Contracting Party may be changed on 6 months notice given to the other Contracting Party.



It would seem that LAX is an Intermediate Point "to be agreed".


User currently offlineOneworld1 From Mauritius, joined Dec 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10355 times:

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 10):

Where does HA fit in to this?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26626 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10283 times:

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 10):

Actually, the new US/Canada bilateral is what gives AC the rights to fly this route.

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 11):
Where does HA fit in to this?

They don't. They are a US flag carrier and because of that can fly US-Australia under the bilateral free and clear



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineOneworld1 From Mauritius, joined Dec 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10258 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

Sorry, I didn't express myself well. Will HA not be the loser 'in all this', with AC's entry into the market?


User currently offlineUnitedtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10175 times:

Quoting Oneworld1 (Reply 13):
Sorry, I didn't express myself well. Will HA not be the loser 'in all this', with AC's entry into the market?

Actualy HA will win with this. Moveing AC from HNL SYD to LAX SYD will leave them and QF in the market.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10097 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 7):
2. What will AC use

AC will be using their brand new B777-200LR a/c for YYZ-LAX-SYD using the 5th freedom right. Can you imagine SQ have access to Australia and USA market, we'll have 4 Star Alliance carriers flying the south pacific from USA to Australia and / or New Zealand, AC, NZ,SQ and UA.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10070 times:

I think Qantas should have the route, what will Australia get for letting SQ operate the route? The price wont change SQ is expensive to fly with now so i wouldnt think they would be charging much less than Qantas. If all things work out within 2 years we will have QF, JQ international, DJ international, UA, AC operating the route. Look how the tasman route has ended up, started off a couple of airlines operating it now its a bloodbath because NZ and Aus let it happen.
My opinion anyway.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10038 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 3):
Australia is almost always among the most expensive tickets from SAT. Take a look at the lowest priced, most restricted tickets from SAT over the next few months from Sabre...

Not to be mean, but uh, no shit!

Australia is only what, 9000 miles away from SAT. That's gonna cost a bit more than West Palm Beach, Florida don't you think?



PHX based
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10023 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
Can you imagine SQ have access to Australia and USA market

Do you mean SQ flying Australia-US non stop? Frankly, I can't. It is logical QF wants to defend its self-interest.


User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10007 times:

You seem to forget about all the airlines that have tried SYD-LAX and failed. The fact is QF has a reputaion and people are happy to pay for that.

Air New Zealand, Northwest and Continental all tried and failed. UA has cut back whislt QF is adding more flights. What makes you think Singapore is going to be any more successful.

Reality is Australia has feared Sinapore Airlines for many years. Rumors of start up in Australia and the so called Ansett rescue that they never did. They have done Ausraltia no favour.... oh hang on they put to death one of our citizens.

Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineSEAPlane10 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 17):
Australia is only what, 9000 miles away from SAT. That's gonna cost a bit more than West Palm Beach, Florida don't you think?

The price per mile of the tickets to Australia, however, is quite high in comparison to other distant (5,000 miles or greater) destinations: Paris = $.052/mile; Istanbul = $.074/mile; Bangkok = $.078/mile; Tokyo = $.10/mile; Sydney = $.138/mile


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about

And it just happens to be in the middle of a monoply route Aussie-LHR



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9863 times:

Interesting how Qantas is threatened by Singapore, but OK with AC and United.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5353 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9853 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
AC will be using their brand new B777-200LR a/c for YYZ-LAX-SYD using the 5th freedom right.

Are you sure? Considering the 773ER has about the same range or a bit more than the 744ER and the 744ER can make LAX-SYD easily I see no reason why the 773ER can't, so personally I expect AC to use the 773ER. The 772LR will do the new YVR-SYD non stop. They could start LAX-SYD with a 772LR and upgrade to a 773ER I surpose.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
You seem to forget about all the airlines that have tried SYD-LAX and failed. The fact is QF has a reputaion and people are happy to pay for that.

Air New Zealand, Northwest and Continental all tried and failed. UA has cut back whislt QF is adding more flights. What makes you think Singapore is going to be any more successful.

So QF have a reputation and SQ don't?

NZ lost the AN feed, and they aren't US or Australian based so they struggled at the front end once AN dissappeared. NW had the sarga of going through Japan, while they did still fly LAX-SYD non stop 3x weekly and on the other days LAX-HNL-SYD they decided to quit because they couldn't go through Japan and pick up enough pax. So they decided to quit altogether. CO never served LAX-SYD non stop and didn't have the equipment to do so at the time. Their aircraft were jam packed but they were by far the cheapest on the route and had to stop in HNL when UA, QF and NZ were all doing LAX-SYD or LAX-AKL non stop.

So UA has cut back? Why then in the Southern summer do they offer 3 additional flights from both LAX and SFO to SYD? Because demand isn't there? Sure UA have admited themselves that the Australian market is so so, but they need to get out of Chapter 11 which they soon will and then get a new product.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 19):
Serious SIngapore only takes traffic into SIN becasue they want the tourist dollar, otherwise it would just be a little island that everybody forgot about

And the fact that SQ has a reputation.


User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9727 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
So UA has cut back

UA used to fly MEL_LAX non-stop. They have definitely cut their pacific services.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 23):
NZ lost the AN feed, and they aren't US or Australian based so they struggled at the front end once AN dissappeared.

And the same would apply to SQ - they have no feed either.

IF the service couldnt work for CO, NZ or NW then why is SQ so sure it will.

THE REAL PROBLEM WITH AUS-USA services is there is no competition on any service out of LAX except to SYD. More servives need to opert out of MEL and BNE.

AT least AC and UA are on the American continent and have some justification for operating to Australia. How would SQ feel if an American carrier came into SIN and started operting services on their lucrative routes???

I am all for encouraging competition - let's see another American carrier fly to Australia.

THE OTHER REASON QF seems to have a monopoly is the totally atrocious UA service. Their cabin ammenites and attitude towards passenger comfort is appauling. IF an American carrier operated a quality service I gurantee QF might have a problem, until then its staus quo. I just wish somebody like CO had the equipment and teamed up with Virgin Blue in Australia to operate an alliance



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
25 N1120A : Actually, United has expanded their Pacific services. The reason they cut LAX-MEL non-stop is because QF got the 744ER, which enabled them to under c
26 ZK-NBT : They cut that due to the operational requirements of the P/W Powered 744's. They probably only continue to serve MEL because they serve SYD from both
27 N1120A : Yes, the SFO-SYD service is timed to connect to the LAX-SYD-MEL service in Sydney so that United is able to spread the load well and make money. Addi
28 Post contains links SFORunner : AC still need approval from the folks in Canberra as LAX is not explicitly listed as a "Intermediate Point" the Canada / Australia bilateral (above).
29 N1120A : Actually, based on how the US/Canada bilateral is written, it may be the US/Australia bilateral that governs here, not the Canada/Australia one.
30 ZK-NBT : Ok, I thought it was only avaliable with GE's. There was another reason AKL was cut and that was the fact that they had 96 staff here for 1 daily fli
31 SFORunner : Perhaps. The point I make is that it's not "automatic" but more apt to happen than SQ's entry.
32 Aerokiwi : And Qantas is quite happy to heavily exploit this little island for its own advantage. Of course SQ wants the tourist dollar - what's your point? Eve
33 Airtropolis : and prevented millions of dollars worth of drugs from entering the OZ market and destroying even more lives or would that be a good thing in your opi
34 Jacobin777 : hence the need for 777-300ER or 7478I thus QF pushing Boeing to get the 777-200LR capable of flying SYD-LHR nonstop...
35 Deputydawghere : I agree with Jetfuel, "THE OTHER REASON QF seems to have a monopoly is the totally atrocious UA service. Their cabin ammenites and attitude towards pa
36 N1120A : 748I would be the best, given that UA would already be at a disadvantage to the QF 744ER with the 77W. Beyond that, they would be competing against t
37 DfwRevolution : Not to mention, the 747-8I is an evolutionary derrivitive from the 747-400 and would likely integrate into UA's fleet very smoothly, GE-engines aside
38 VonRichtofen : When AC starts the route with the their new 777's QF will have some serious competition on the route. I know it's not an American carrier, but I thin
39 N1120A : Yep. The common type rating will help a lot. Remember also that part of United's exit financing came from GE
40 SATX : As already stated, the cost per mile is still more than other long-haul flights. Why you decided to focus on Florida is beyond me, but next time I'll
41 AirCanada014 : I wonder if AC will take over UA LAX-MEL from YVR or YYC or YUL. So what do you think of having AC introduce LAX-MEL from any point in Canada?..Use th
42 Paulkaz : This afternoon(monday) the AustralianGoverment refused SQ rights to fly Aus-US.SQ tried to cherry pick the most profiable business route.Perhaps if th
43 Gemuser : Got a link or source? Everything seems to be saying the decision will be made tomorrow (Tuesday). Gemuser
44 Juventus : Don't think so. Its not the same. Not every city will work with MEL. LAX and possibly SFO can make this route profitable.
45 UAL777UK : They re-emerged from CH11 at the start of Feb and they will start making the upgrades to the International fleet in the third quarter of '06 having p
46 AirCanada014 : I guess we'll not see A380 do LAX-SYD routing. Unless the Australia government decide to postpone until SQ recieve their 380. Who knows. Time will tel
47 SunriseValley : Is this statement based on personal experience or is it based on hearsay?
48 SunriseValley : The ETOPSchart on Great Circle Mapper suggests that ETOPS180 is not a consideration on AKL-LAX.
49 Gemuser : QFs first A380 route will be MEL-LAX, followed by SYD-LAX and then SYD/MEL-LHR. Gemuser
50 Post contains links Juventus : Just an update. Singapore will not give up after setback, vows to continue pressing to get rights to the LAX-SYD route. http://www.smh.com.au/news/bus
51 Jetfuel : I have been travelling to the USA for many years on a regular basis. I have done it with QF, AZ, UA and CO. Consistently UA has had the worse service
52 N1120A : Um, United has F-class seating that is equal to that of any other airline. Their C is outdated, though FBNL seats have not been universally loved. Be
53 Travelin man : By that logic, the following routes should not be flown: NZ LAX-LHR AI LAX-FRA CX JFK-YVR El Al LAX-YYZ ...... or even QF SIN-LHR What the crap does
54 Post contains links Antskip : An editorial of the influential Aus newspaper "Australian" today sides squarely against the position of QF and the Aust govt, under the heading "A pro
55 HoosierCFI : The article which Juventus mentioned said that Virgin Blue is considering 777's to compete on the SYD-LAX route. Is this speculation / rumor, or have
56 Airtropolis : Since when did Alitalia (AZ) fly from LAX-SYD? Very true and may I add: QF SIN-FRA and in the past: SIN-BKK; BKK-HKG; SIN-HKG; SIN-CDG; SIN-JKT; SIN-
57 Jetfuel : From: AAP February 21, 2006 CABINET is today expected to shut Singapore Airlines out of the lucrative Australia-US Pacific route. Singapore Airlines h
58 N1120A : Tell that to the FAA when United lost one and had to divert.
59 ER757 : I wouldn't think HA would be affected very much. They offer non-stop HNL/SYD and they feed that flight from all their US Mainland origins. So another
60 Sllevin : Singapore offered those right to bring them more business. Otherwise QF could just tech through KUL, for example. I've never seen numbers showing tha
61 PanAm_DC10 : SQ have been denied Transpacific access for "several years" and the Federal Government will not raise the Foreign equity ownership cap on QF past it's
62 BMIFlyer : QF is just plain greedy. Wheres the competition spirit huh? What is QF scared of?? Lee
63 Gemuser : QF is a commerical operation with a legal mandate to maximise its shareholders wealth. Why on earth would THEY want more competition on their most pr
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