Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7132 times:
Perhaps FI got this wrong, I'm mistaken, or plans have changed. I thought MSN002 (F-WXXL) has been in Hamburg since last November being fitted-out with the 853 seat cabin for evacuation testing? We certainly haven't seen a lot of MSN002 since she made her maiden flight last November.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6732 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1): Perhaps FI got this wrong, I'm mistaken, or plans have changed. I thought MSN002 (F-WXXL) has been in Hamburg since last November being fitted-out with the 853 seat cabin for evacuation testing? We certainly haven't seen a lot of MSN002 since she made her maiden flight last November.
I've seen both aircraft mentioned for this test, and I have seen repeated statements of AFTER March 26. I suspect this is true as March 26 is a Sunday and who wants to get their church clothes messed up by bailing out of an airplane. THe problem with the timing is to get an aircraft with that many seats in it, requiring a major refit of which ever one they do use. I think they are taking out the galleys and toilets, which makes a 853 pax A380 sound like an interesting situation. However, all this test does is define the maximum number of pax that can be carried.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6703 times:
Quoting Poitin (Reply 2): I have seen repeated statements of AFTER March 26. I suspect this is true as March 26 is a Sunday and who wants to get their church clothes messed up by bailing out of an airplane.
I'd think scheduling/conducting the test on a Sunday makes sense because most of the 853 participants and/or the entire pool of participants, don't have to work on Sunday making it a lot easier for them to attend the test?
A319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6617 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4): I'd think scheduling/conducting the test on a Sunday makes sense because most of the 853 participants and/or the entire pool of participants, don't have to work on Sunday making it a lot easier for them to attend the test?
And the test won't disturb the normal workings in Finky which works Monday till Saturday.
I also thought that MSN002 currently getting a cabin in XFW is going to be the one for the evacuation tests.
MSN007 is coming tomorrow and is for long range route proving etc.
PipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1582 posts, RR: 57 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5941 times:
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Quoting OyKIE (Reply 3): I hope Discovery will be there capturing this. It will be awesome to watch
Well, might be, but I've seen evacuation test video of the 777 @ the BA crew training centre, you could see people piling up at the bottom of the slides. Ouch!
Imagine what it looks like at the bottom of the upper deck slides! It's VERY high up there...
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5560 times:
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 3): I hope Discovery will be there capturing this. It will be awesome to watch Smile
Only if you enjoy blood sports. This will be bloody. How bad, we will see, but there is no way I would go off the upper slides, which are pitched at 45 degrees.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 3818 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5434 times:
Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 6): Well, might be, but I've seen evacuation test video of the 777 @ the BA crew training centre, you could see people piling up at the bottom of the slides. Ouch!
Happens every time.
Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 8): OK, so what will actually happen during the evacuation test? How will they know if it is succesful? Time? Potential injury?
They have to get everyone out in 90 seconds. Injury's caused by use of the slides don't count against you, because a broken ankle is better then being burnt to death.
Boeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 9): They have to get everyone out in 90 seconds
Holy smokes (no pun intended!)! 90 seconds! That seems quite un-realistic. Well, I guess if the folks from AF at YYZ can do it without getting burnt to death, I'm sure they'll probably be able to figure it out.
By the way, it seems somewhat stupid to have slides coming from the exit doors in the upper level. Are there slides on the upper level?
Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
The rules are simple. The desired number of people to be tested get into an airplane in a darkened but not completely blacked out hanger. Half of the doors available are selected, deployed and secured. Then 853 people who must be a certain per centage female, over age 65 and other parameters are told "GO"
They have 90 seconds to get out. Not a real test as there will be no babies, really old people, people in wheelchairs, or drunks, but those are the rules.
Since the rules are the same for all aircraft, they are about as fair as they can be, and although perhaps not real. However, them is the rules, more or less.
My concern is the upper deck slope at 45 degrees and I foresee bloodshed on them. I pray I am wrong. I hope I am wrong, but we will see.
They are rough and approximate, but give the flavor. If you want more details
I can find them for you, as I have posted them on other threads. The rules are actually quite fair, given the gravity of the test. You may or may not make it out of a situation for totally other reasons -- you may have seconds, or many minutes, depending on so many other factors. So the test is what is is.
AeroPiggot From United States, joined May 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5251 times:
I participated in the 777 evacuation test, (the first one) I heard it was repeated due to time exceedance. It is true we did board the airplane in the dark, as they put up black curtains around the entrance ramp. We evacuated via the slides in a darken hanger, with spot lights, and some one did hit me in the back with their foot as I hit the bottom of the slide...but no harm done. I also believe that baggage was spilled along the isle??? Can't remember though, this was back in 1995 I believe.
Was a lot of fun for me and I did get a free meal out of it.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5148 times:
Quoting Elton (Reply 15): Awesome ! 853 people, simply amazing. Good luck to them all....
Let us pray that no one is seriously hurt. In the past, people have been crippled.
Quoting Elton (Reply 16): What if, just if, after all the work, they can't make the evacuation test a success??
They can retest once more and then reduce the max number of PAX and test at the lower number. What ever they pass with is the MAX number of Pax they can claim in their adverts. In reality, the common 555 number should be a piece of cake,so it is only the LLCs with their 28 in pitch seats who will suffer.
Maybe it is just as well if the test fails, as I might end up on one of those flights.
However Airbus will no longer have a 853 pax airplane, although I doubt any more than 850 seats will ever be used as those last 3 seats require a new FA. (the Rule of 50).
EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 8433 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5071 times:
Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 8): OK, so what will actually happen during the evacuation test? How will they know if it is succesful? Time? Potential injury?
The people enter much like through a jetway so they have no clue as to their suroundings. Half the doors are set to fail and no one knows which doors. The windows are blacked out or the test hangar is dark. The cabin lights fail, emergancy lighst come on and everyone has 90 seconds to get off... from half the doors..!! Injurys must be kept to 'walking wounded' or they are not counted. If you saw '20th Century Jet- The Boeing 77' this bit Boeing as someone broke their ankle and they did not count them..... which forced Boeing to drop the certifided head count by one.
So, what does this mean for Airbus..? The command will be given to evacuate, the stop watches are started and the number of people that are off in 90 seconds will be the certified head count the A380 can carry...period. Airbus will have the option to re-test if the numbers are not to their liking. The big test in my mind will be the upper deck seats. If anyone 'freezes' and refuses to go... then blocks up the doors that will hamstring the headcount.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
AMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 935 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4527 times:
Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 19): Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
If anyone 'freezes' and refuses to go... then blocks up the doors that will hamstring the headcount.
No one will freeze for very long. They'll be pushed out. Thats the FA's job along with the guy behind him.
Besides, the upper part of the slide from the upper deck has a cover, so you can't see the floor deep, deep down.
474218 From United States, joined Oct 2005, 3818 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3805 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18): If you saw '20th Century Jet- The Boeing 77' this bit Boeing as someone broke their ankle and they did not count them..... which forced Boeing to drop the certifided head count by one.
Not true, but it does make good television. The 777-200 is certified to carry 440 passengers and the -300 500 or 550 passengers depending on the number of FA's. About 5 percent of the evacuees are expected to suffer injuries.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2484 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3771 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18): ..!! Injurys must be kept to 'walking wounded' or they are not counted. If you saw '20th Century Jet- The Boeing 77' this bit Boeing as someone broke their ankle and they did not count them..... which forced Boeing to drop the certifided head count by one.
The count was reduced by one in that test because a volunteer baulked at the door and refused to exit the plane via the slide. I think he/she was eventually persuaded to exit, but due to the delay they did not get out within 90 seconds and the evacuation count was reduced to one less than the total number of people on the aircraft. The guy who was injured is shown, but he wasn't cited as the reason for the reduced passenger count.
PVD757 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 3230 posts, RR: 22 Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3732 times:
I have a question - if they can't certify for 853 people, do they keep taking people off until they meet the 90 second rule? I was thinking they would just have to limit the amount of people an airline could carry going forward if it doesn't certify at this amount.
RedFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2005, 3603 posts, RR: 30 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3709 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18): Half the doors are set to fail and no one knows which doors.
I wonder if they will consider blocking a majority of the lower deck doors. It would be interesting to see how fast or how many people will migrate to the upper deck to get out.
A319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 25, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3689 times:
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 24): I wonder if they will consider blocking a majority of the lower deck doors. It would be interesting to see how fast or how many people will migrate to the upper deck to get out.
Originally it was tried to get both decks certified seperately, but the authorities wouldn't accept that.
But from what I've read in Flug Revue etc the stairs shouldn't be used.
Who knows if some people decide to try and run down them to get out though.
26 474218: They will count how many passengers got off in the 90 seconds. That number is used in the investigation as to why the rest of the passengers did not
27 RedFlyer: I think that's a little unrealistic. After all, if the plane ever ditches in water or even experiences any kind of crash landing, chances are the low
28 MarkHKG: What makes the upper deck slide/rafts any better in that situation? If there is debris on the ground, it may puncture the slide regardless if it is a
29 Scbriml: I think you would if the only alternative was a horrible death.
30 RedFlyer: That is a good point. But you're not going to convince me that if the lower deck were rapidly filling with water after ditching that I'm going to jus
31 MarkHKG: I think you bring up an important issue for why cabin crew are so important! Their assertive nature to get the pax out the best exit-- and not the ex
32 RichardPrice: In all these cases, how would a single deck aircraft perform? Wouldnt an A380 with its double decks be safer than any single deck aircraft? In all of
33 BestWestern: On March 26th TLS just happens to be hosting the Anorexic Contortionist Sprinters and sky divers association annual get together.
34 Noelg: Good job the test's in Finkenwerder then!
35 RedFlyer: You're absolutely right, it would be like a bonus. And that was my whole point. When people panic, they will often times follow the path of least res
36 MarkHKG: Somehow I'm not buying the whole "it's safer" thing because it gives you "more options". Consider a situation when you have an evacuation slide failu
37 TaromA380: Exactly. They need two aircraft, because for realistic purpose, they will set up fire to the test frame, at the beginning of the evacuation process.
38 Leelaw: Surely, you're attempting to make a joke?
39 Jorge1812: Read on the web that an A-380 just landed at Hamburg for evacuation tests. http://www.airliners.de/news/news.php?articleid=7667 (only in German) So no
40 Jorge1812: To clarify the discussions. I read in a Hamburg Spotter Forum that MSN 007 arrived for the test at XFW today. Georg
41 A342: Actually, the crew included, it will be 873 persons on the aircraft. Of course he is. But I´ve read that there will be artificial smoke.
42 Leelaw: AFAIK, MSN002 (F-WXXL) has been at XFW since November 8 being fitted out with the 853 passenger seat cabin for evacuation testing which is now set to
43 Jorge1812: Two different oppinions, hope we can find out which plane will be used. Georg
44 Knoxibus: OK, to make things clear: - MSN 002 is currently being fitted with cabin interiors (all seat and galley suppliers). There is a cabin virtual first fli
45 Leelaw: Thanx for the clarrification. IIRC, that's a clear change of the plan that was announced at the time of the program delay last summer. At that time,
46 Knoxibus: Might be, but the cabin layouts for the evacuation tests that I have date back to mid-2003 and are for MSN 007 Indeed, but this is the first time thi
47 SKYMASTER: Wonder if there were any photographers in XFW when F-WWSD (cn007) landed yesterday. I was planning to be there, but could not get a confirmed landing
48 A319XFW: Someone did link to pics in another thread. But can't find them now, sorry! Nothing spectacular though. Landing in direction of 05 and a few puffs of
49 AMSSFO: That's what I remembered as well. In Aircraft Technology Engineering & Maintenance from June/July 2005 ( http://www.aviationindustrygroup.com/index.c
50 Leelaw: Thanx for your post, I saw another more detailed timeline (immediately post announcement of the program delay) which indicated the same format and te
51 Leelaw: Here's further evidence that the anticipated tasking of 002 & 007 regarding evacuation testing has changed significantly in just the last two months:
52 Lehpron: If people are dumb and jump out of the exit door, such that they land in the middle of the slide and effectively hit the ground faster than if they s
53 JayinKitsap: Any update on the evacuation test? Wasn't someone posting on the board that the actual test was this weekend?
54 Dreamflight767: On some documentary I saw on TV, the FAA was carrying out some evacuation tests (not on an A-380) I think they used an old 707. They were just trying
55 Alessandro: Discovery channel has already shown the test that the US manufacturer done.
56 MarkHKG: Yes, but that was a test of the SLIDE only. (In fact, only the overwing slide.) Now they need to test the entire aircraft to see if they can offload
57 Jet-lagged: Wow. Depending on the number evacuated in 90 seconds, that would be 30 to 45 people.
58 MarkHKG: Keep in mind that this is a very vague definition. Injury could mean a friction burn to a broken rib to-- god forbid-- someone getting paralyzed (whi
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