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The Future Of Delta Airlines  
User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16818 times:

I recently was speaking to a couple Delta pilots and wanted to dicuss the future of Delta Airlines.

The first pilot was from my GSP-ATL flight on a Boeing 737-200. He said that most of the stuff that we hear on the news etc is DALPA trying to scare the general public and Delta Management to believing that they will strike. When I Asked him if they would, he said very firmly NO WAY! He said that Delta and the Pilots will agree before that happens and that the strike would do nothing but put over 10,000 people out of work and ruin the state of Georgia's economy. I then asked him what the future of Delta was and he was very positive saying that he has heard many things and that the 787 is in Delta's future and that he expects Delta to be the largest International carrier out of the United States by 2010. He also said that he and his fellow pilots are pretty certin that they will be out of BK by mid 2007 and in the black again by 2008.

Now the second pilot i talked to wasnt quite as talkative but he did confirm the same thing regarding DALPA trying to scare management to cut them down to around 250 Million in cuts vs 350 million in cuts. He also said that there will never be a Delta strike with the Pilots Union.

What are your thoughts? Where do you think Delta will be in the future?

I think that the pilots will not stirke and reach a deal with Delta for around 225 Million in cuts.

As far as Delta's future. I think they are on line to come out of BK by the middle of 2007 and that they should return to profitability by 2008. I see a large 787 order upon exit from BK and possibally a 747 order with there new International hopes. I see them going to China and Austrailia in the future and returning the joy of flying in the US. I think that Delta will give all their planes the new leather and personal IFE's. I see a reduced amount of RJ's by 2010 and more mainline flights with 738's which will be ordered.

Please try and keep this thread positive as we do enough Delta bashing!

Thanks in Advance for your input!!


Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
155 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16765 times:

it's all politics...there is no way that DL pilots would strike, making them unemployed. They are just trying to scare management and management is doing the same thing. I think that DL's future does look bright and I could agree that DL will be come the U.S.'s most international carrier by 2010 maybe even before. But dont expect to see a 787 order until they exit bankruptcy.


FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16765 times:

I think I enjoy flying on delta more than any other legacy carrier in the US. I'd love if they flew more international. I'm not sure if I see them as the largest international carrier by 2010 though. Buying 747s? Those are pricey. I see more 777 and 787s, and a program to replace and unify their mainline jets (732s, M80s, M90s, etc) with 738's (and perhaps other 73G variants). But all of this can't happen until they have money again, which might be a little bit. Delta has a good relationship with their pilots i believe, I don't think they'll strike.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16725 times:

Well given the state of delta. The pilots know if there is a strike. They will be out of work. The pilots union are a bunch of smart cookies. It's just a scare tactic to get the management to play some hardball. They wont do something stupid like this that they know will put em on the street. Just look at the NW mecs.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16696 times:

Definately a tactic on the part of DL pilots...I live in "Delta-land", and have alot of neighbors who are DL pilots. They live a very nice life-style, and even when they have given back 30%, its still a good job. To loose it would be dumb, and how many more times do we need to see this game being played.

As much as I dislike DL today (from a customer standpoint), I do believe they will emerge as a leaner company. THey have been battling AirTran here in ATL for years now, and have been making adjustments as they learn to compete with a bonafide LCC. That will only make them better. As far as new aircraft, they will most certainly take a page out of the UA playbook. You won't see new DL aircraft for years.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16658 times:

As for some 744s...I'm pretty sure DL's plan is to stick with twinjets.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1254 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16617 times:

I think we will see a large 787/777 order, as I think they need them to accomplish their ambitious international plans. I think we will see expanded use of the 764 in the interim. They will most certainly emerge from BK much leaner, but I highly doubt they will surpass AA and their other competitors as the largest international carriers out of the US, but I will certainly enjoy watching them try. I am not a huge DL fan, as a customer, but I would love to see them succeed. I wish them the best of luck.


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineDalb777 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16574 times:

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
I think we will see a large 787/777 order

In previous threads, people speculated DL will order the 777-200LR. Do you think DL will seriously consider buying the LR to expand to destinations the ER's can't make non-stop? I know that they won't buy anything until after they get out of BK, but I'm just curious as to the possibility of the LR in the future DL fleet. Maybe the addition of the LR is a start on them becoming the largest international carrier out of the United States???



Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
User currently offlineTwoLz2Rn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16564 times:

yeah...747's don't seem to fit in well...even with the international expansion...i would think 777LR (MAYBE 773 for the highest passenger volume routes) and 787 are more likely to fit...

User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16546 times:

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 7):
In previous threads, people speculated DL will order the 777-200LR. Do you think DL will seriously consider buying the LR to expand to destinations the ER's can't make non-stop? I know that they won't buy anything until after they get out of BK, but I'm just curious as to the possibility of the LR in the future DL fleet. Maybe the addition of the LR is a start on them becoming the largest international carrier out of the United States???

I dono how feasable the LR would be for DL. However if they could get approval for ATL-SYD and other such routes, I could see the 772LR in the future of DL in the long run. I think the biggest orders will be either a 787 or 777-200ER. I would really like to see DL pick up the LR and be able to run long distance locations with non-stop flights.

Time will tell on the LR but the ER and 787 seem almost positive once they get back in the Green  Smile



Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 16546 times:

Well that's a relief. Everyone at my mother's station is really in a depressing state right now because of those damn pilots.

Here's a few reason for you guys NOT to strike:

You will lose your own job which still pays a great amount of money and is the norm compared to the other airlines.

You will lose your benefits. Have fun paying for your flights. You know Delta treats us generously when it comes to flight benefits at least.

You will put tens of thousands of employees out of work and the economy will go into a decline.

You will have wasted ALL of that money you spent on training to become a pilot, and it will be incredibly hard to find another job with another airline. You will also lose all of your many years of seniority and be at the bottom of the totem pole. If you do find another job with an airline, they are likely to not pay you as much as DL even with the cuts, as you will be on your first year with the new airline.

So please don't strike. It would be selfish and incredibly greedy.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16495 times:

I tend to think that Delta will survive, simply because it only has one major union, ALPA, and its labor relations have been better than other legacy carriers.

That said, Delta has to try to differentiate itself from the other large U.S. carriers, once it comes out of bankruptcy.

In the days of regulation, you knew you were dealing with Delta, because its reservations agents all had southern accents, its flight attendants were predominantly southern, and its meal service was southern. My father used to fly Delta, if he needed to go to Atlanta, Nashville, or Louisville, because Eastern's food was plain and boring, while Delta had grits on breakfast flights.

As an international carrier, DL does have to have a level of sophistication that WN doesn't have or need, but it should try to have a more southern feel on its domestic service.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16478 times:

Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

N


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16478 times:

Once DL puts their union troubles behind them, then an exit from bankruptcy will not be far off. I would expect a big order for the 777/787 so they can start phasing out the older 767s, continue beef up their expanding Europe operations, and make a bigger push into Asia.

I don't see the 748 in their plans however. DL and the 747 were never a good mix. Yes they used to fly a few but it was the 70's, and everybody was experimenting!



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16467 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

As a resident of suburban ATL, I would very much agree. DL is an economy by itself. Major regional impact if they go...which is another reason why they won't.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineN917ME From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16445 times:

Even though I don't think they will strike, no one thought Pan Am or Eastern would go away...more recently TWA. How many TWA employees still work at American??? not many.

User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16445 times:

i wish the best of luck to DL and NW as well

User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16425 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 12):
Just a slight update to the original poster... If DL went under, way more than 10,000 people would be out of a job.

I would imagine closer to 50,000, if not even closer to 100,000.

N

You are completely right. That is my error. Thank you for your correction  Smile



Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16269 times:

Rumor mill is going strong again, I see. As far as what the OP said that the pilots said, I sure hope it is true, as regardless of what many people say, DL has already made quite a progress in restructuring, though they are obviously nowhere near their goals just yet.
As far as new orders go, yes, DL would likely order the 787, but no, they won't order any 772LRs. I even think DL could dispose off their 772ERs if Boeing were to really launch the 787-10, because then DL could combine both their small 777 fleet and their huge 767 into one friggin' huge 787 fleet. DL currently doesn't have any routes that a 787-8 couldn't do, and if DL were to seriously think about ATL-SYD (for the love of God), a 787-9 could do the job as well as a 777, and except maybe MEL, there is no market of interest in 772LR range that couldn't also be done with a 787-9. Not to mention that it will cost quite a few $$$ less.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6631 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16159 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
Rumor mill is going strong again, I see. As far as what the OP said that the pilots said, I sure hope it is true, as regardless of what many people say, DL has already made quite a progress in restructuring, though they are obviously nowhere near their goals just yet.
As far as new orders go, yes, DL would likely order the 787, but no, they won't order any 772LRs. I even think DL could dispose off their 772ERs if Boeing were to really launch the 787-10, because then DL could combine both their small 777 fleet and their huge 767 into one friggin' huge 787 fleet. DL currently doesn't have any routes that a 787-8 couldn't do, and if DL were to seriously think about ATL-SYD (for the love of God), a 787-9 could do the job as well as a 777, and except maybe MEL, there is no market of interest in 772LR range that couldn't also be done with a 787-9. Not to mention that it will cost quite a few $$$ less.

While some will disagree, I woudn't be suprised if Delta ordered 787-3s for domestic routes. The 787-3 would be an ideal replacement for the 767-200s and non-ER 767-300s.

Some claim that Delta intends to completely remove widebodies from domestic service. This is completely untrue. The domestic 767-300 non-ERs and 13 767-400ERs will REMAIN on domestic routes. These domestic routes served by 767-300s cannot warrant a 787-8 with BusinessElite seating, nor can it warrant many continuous narrowbodies.

BTW, here are other reasons why Delta would order the 787-3 over the 787-8 for domestic routes.
- The 787-3 is more fuel efficient than the 787-8
- The 787-3 can use the existing 767 gates



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16125 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
- The 787-3 is more fuel efficient than the 787-8

I dunno about that... they're practically the same weight.

N


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16102 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
I dunno about that... they're practically the same weight.

N

There is a several percentage point difference in OEWs. But the 787-3 is also configured for a 2 class configuration. The question is whether that configuration is heavier than Boeing's 3 class configration used in the 787-8 spec.

But I imagine the improved efficiency question would be a function of how the wing changes effect aerodynamics and whether the engines will tweaked enough for the 787-3 and whether they are as efficient at the lower thrust settings needed on the 787-3.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16051 times:

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 14):
DL is an economy by itself. Major regional impact if they go...which is another reason why they won't.

I don't know. After all, if you talk to people like Cairo, he says that if DL were to go under, the impact on GA and the entire country would be less than 1%. (sarcastic) RE: Ga. House Offers Help To Delta (by OttoPylit Feb 19 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2614740



Delta will be fine. The pilots always use these scare tactics to try and prove something, and they talk a lot of smack, but in the end, most of them know there is too much to lose. You have a lot of junior FO's that are willing to strike, and some captains who will threaten it for protection of what they believe is their's. However, when it comes down to it, many of them will think real hard about it and know that it will ruin everything they have ever worked for. Even with these cuts, being a pilot is still better than any real job, as they say. And other airlines have it much worse. Your still only working 75 hrs a month and more if you want to. Many senior captains will want something there to retire for. Many mid-level captains or senior FO's want to move up and don't want to start all over again after putting in their time "at the bottom." So only the junior FO's are the only ones wiht nothing to lose. Everyone also knows that the end of Delta is not just the end of pilots, but the end of the line for everyone. Dispatchers, gate agents, rampers, scheduling, operations, reservations, flight attendants, cabin service, everyone. The better part of 50,000 lives tumbled by the acts of a few. Not to mention the huge drain it would put on the local Atlanta and Georgia economy for the better part of a decade, probably.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 6):
I highly doubt they will surpass AA and their other competitors as the largest international carriers out of the US, but I will certainly enjoy watching them try.

I see, if DL and the pilots come to an agreement on what the company wants, DL emerging from BK by the end of the year and profitable by mid-2007. I see DL's international expansion rising rapidly and orders for more 777's and 787's while continuing to place orders for more 738's. Europe and S. America are the main focuses for expansion, and with DL already being the LARGEST carrier across the Atlantic, the expansion will only increase the foothold. But DL will not overlook Asia, and will re-commit to getting rights to fly to China, maybe a few lower Asian states, and maybe(hopefully) one day Australia.



OttoPylit


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15913 times:

For all the crazy ass DL pilots who like to scare the flying public and DL management:

CE Woolman is spinning in his grave becasue of you, and of people like your union reps and management freaks like Leo Mullin and Ron Allen. DL was a great airline at one time, I hope Grinstein can bring it back. Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

For all the widget-lovers:

Keep supporting DL. Rock on!



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 982 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15888 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 22):
Your still only working 75 hrs a month and more if you want to.

Don't say things like that. Those 75 hours are only hours spent in the cockpit actually flying. They do not include time spent away from home, sitting around the airport or waiting out delays. Its not as simple as a "real job" having a 40 hour work week and pilots having a 75 hour work month...not even close!



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
25 RwSEA : I don't see DL having a need for the 747, but I see them having a great need for the 73G, 738, E-190 and E-170 for domestic service. These planes cou
26 AirlineAV8tr : I don't mean any disrespect, but speaking with two pilots can hardly get a good barometer of DALPA's view as a whole. I have two uncles with DL, and w
27 Airlinespotter : Are you kidding me? I do not see Delta will be a making any profit by 2008 and a large order of 787 or 747 upon exit from BK. And new leather with pe
28 Alitalia744 : Haha. Thanks for the nod to the widget-lovers. Some of us go out of our way (including more than one connection) to fly on the widget. Why? Because s
29 DeltaOwnsAll : That all sounds very nice... As much as I'd love for DL to get some 744's, I really doubt that it will ever happen. They seem to be pretty set on thei
30 Adriaticus : Ditto on both counts. Long live, Delta; keep up the best service among US carriers servicing Mexico. __Ad. (DL SkyMiles Platinum Medallion)
31 Post contains images DeltaMD88 : Agreed, DL just finished off their tri-jet fleet to have an all twin, I cant see them going back to using anything with more engines than two althoug
32 Phuebner : My father worked for TWA for 37 years. A week after 9/11 he lost his job. Luckily he was able to retire with benefits. When 9/11 occurred the personn
33 AirlineAV8tr : And from what I've heard as well, you have every right to feel that way.
34 StevenUhl777 : I'd much rather see DL survive than NW at this point...I'm glad to hear that the likelihood of a strike is minimal at best. Hopefully DL can pick up s
35 Rdwelch : I used to fly to ATL from FLL when I was younger on DL to see my dad who was an instructor for Southern Bell in the 70's. I remember the F Class F/A
36 FlyDeltaJets : DL is the number 2 civilan employer in the state of Georgia.
37 DAL767400ER : Could also be done with a 787-9. Of course, ETOPS could be an issue, though. Too much competition. DL can't even fill the CDG-MAA flight properly, no
38 KAUSpilot : "only 75 hours a month". I hope you're kidding. Yeah, 75 hours is how much you get paid for. I'm sure you realize that 75 hours a month means 16-18 d
39 Post contains images GSPITNL : It took exactly 38 posts to go negative . KAUSpilot, your a very selfish man! You would rather see the pilots strike and put over 50,000-100,000 peop
40 Bobnwa : Do you think business travelers don't have the same waiting around airports and waiting out delays? And they work 40+ hours a week.
41 VgnAtl747 : Well said!
42 Post contains images GSPITNL :
43 SeeTheWorld : What bankruptcy judge has not thrown out the labor contracts? The writing is on the wall, and the employees of DL and NW know it. They will not strike
44 Cadet57 : So your saying being unemployed is better?
45 TinPusher007 : Of course I realize this, my mother used to travel multiple times a month on business. However, Otto Pylit's original post said "You're ONLY working
46 Flymix : I was flying on DL last week, and both crew members were ready and willing to strike. Nobody, especially the pilots, want DL to fail. But how much can
47 Congaboy : Not really...load factors are higher lately because the biz traveller is returning combined with ASM cutbacks. Personally, I am travelling more now t
48 Flymatt2bermud : Lets face it, times have changed. Most seasoned DELTA regulars bring their own food and entertainment. I prefer safety and on time performance to perk
49 SeeTheWorld : You know, I think the question for many of these employees is, "Do I still like my job, and would I accept my position today at my current pay?" Conti
50 Congaboy : Kudos to your sense of humer, KAUSpilot. I can relate to KAUSpilot, I did go through this, and ended up leaving well before (1984) EA went under...I
51 Bucky707 : I don't know what the deal is with the pilots you talked too, but I don't know anyone who is not willing to strike. Every FO I have flown with recentl
52 GSPITNL : Actually the pilots I talked to were saying that most of the other pilots feel the way they do that its better to make a deal than put 100k out of wo
53 DeltaGuy : Sorry, but the majority of these unfounded opinions are coming from users who bairley have 200 posts, and a RR of
54 SeeTheWorld : Dude ... If you're a DL employee, it's time for you to find a new job. Your management stinks, but when your management loses their jobs, they will b
55 Luv2fly : I am sure the employees of NW appreciate those kind words. Personally I would prefer all the carriers to survive and prosper in the coming years.
56 GSPITNL : I would make a toast to that!
57 Congaboy : You have reasonable things to say, DeltaGuy, but you're out of line here. Just because I decided to join A.net recently doesn't mean: a/ I haven't be
58 Panamair : Let's actually look at the FACTS instead of this oversimplified HYPERBOLE (Management = BAD; everyone else = GOOD). DL's management team is already r
59 KAUSpilot : If it's so easy for management to find another job, why do they need such a great severance package.
60 TinPusher007 : Took the words right out of my mouth. Yet, pilots who make much less than these guys should work for paltry sums relative to the industry? Who is res
61 ContnlEliteCMH : HOW those business passengers are paid isn't relevant. Their wages are set by a system that much more closely approximates the free market than any s
62 Bucky707 : well, I disagree. At least in my base (ATL), the vast majority is ready to strike if need be. Funny, used to be the ATL base that was made up of Kool
63 SeeTheWorld : They don't need the severance package, but they've convinced themselves they deserve it. Why? They are either stupid or greedy. Ding Ding Ding - They
64 FlyPNS1 : But the pilots pay has less to do with free market rules and more to do with mismanagement. The prime reason DL pilots (as well as all other employee
65 Halls120 : Good question. Just how IS Southwest paying their pilots so well AND making money?
66 Post contains images Cadet57 : I highly doubt a person would rather make no money "temporarily", as you say, opposed to still having a job, but making a bit less. Besides, last tim
67 Ptcflyer : The harsh reality for pilots is being dictated by the "law of supply and demand". It's just that simple. It does not matter how specialized your labor
68 Dokken10 : I do agree with you on most of your postings. With your statement, why are mechanics,F/A,bag handlers etc. not paid the same way as pilots for workin
69 Dokken10 : As an A/P mechanic, I see flying a 777 easier than flying a 737,MD-80 etc. Look at the hourly pay for a 777 compared to a MD-80. To me it makes no se
70 DeltaGuy : Management wants the pilot's furlough pay reduced to THREE months...plus have the ability to furlough whenever they like. Compare that to the million
71 Dokken10 : Since you brought up the liability issue, the pilots liability ends at the gate. As a mechanic my liability does not end until the plane is turned in
72 DeltaGuy : You have a point, Dokken, and I wish Mechs were paid more as well, they own the jets...as we say in the military, the pilot only 'borrows' the jet fro
73 TinPusher007 : Of course pilots would not agree to be payed based on profits because they have no direct control over that. And FYI, pilots are paid by seniority, I
74 Luv2fly : Most of us in the real world do not get anything except unemployment of we are let go, fired or down sized.
75 Dokken10 : What is the military pay for a fighter pilot compared to a cargo(transport) pilot? What is the pay for a city bus driver compared to a cross country b
76 Dokken10 : I'm not in anyway blaming the pilots for DAL problems!! I have always disagreed with the huge pay differences between different types of A/C for pilot
77 DeltaGuy : Both...combination of. Alot of the real world works in unskilled, blue collar labor- not highly skilled, upper echilon white collar (not bashing you
78 KAUSpilot : The disparity isn't HUGE, you get about 30% more to fly the widebodies. This is really just an extension of the seniority system, as the most senior
79 WesternA318 : And this is why I am in law school for labor law and siding with management just so i can head to some airline that has the IAM on its grounds. The o
80 Ptcflyer : Your comment assumes that Delta management really cares enough to salvage the company. Many of the "Management" ranks probably are just looking to ge
81 Post contains images MJackson : Why will Delta get back on their feet again where Eastern couldn't? Can you say Frank Lorenzo? Lorenzo was nothing more than a 'Union Buster'. He acco
82 Bucky707 : Your liability may not end until the plane is a beer can, but tell me....if you mess up who has to deal with it? You? Nope, you are sitting safe and
83 Bucky707 : I agree. Delta cannot survive a strike. And I am fine with that. I prepared to leave flying and move on to another career.
84 Post contains images DeltaGuy : Delta had/has these two fellow union-busters, Lorenzo and them probably break bread frequently... DeltaGuy
85 Dokken10 : You are 100% correct. With your statement a mechanics liability is just as great as a pilot or even more to insure that the A/C is safe.
86 Dokken10 : Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't EAL continue to fly for about a year after ALL groups went on strike? A few years back Comair pilots went on strike f
87 Dokken10 : Please tell me the difference between flying a 757 and a 767? Justify why a 767 pilot should make 30% more. The UPS pilots seem to be fine with the f
88 Bucky707 : this statement shows your ignorance about the Delta pilot contract. The pay rate is the same for the 757 and 767.
89 Dokken10 : Please tell me where I can get a copy of the DAL pilots contract or a link to read it online? Thanks for the name calling!! That question was not dir
90 FLALEFTY : I remember the days when Delta's management and labor were on the same page. That used to make Delta a profitable beacon of stability in the airline b
91 Dokken10 : Bucky707, what is the pay rate for a 767 pilot? What is the pay rate for a 777 pilot?
92 Bucky707 : you are right. My statement was uncalled for. The current rate for the 767/757 is 155 and for the 777 186.
93 Post contains links KAUSpilot : If you want to see the payrates for just about every US airline, go to http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...s/airlines/airlines-2005030344.htm At D
94 Dokken10 : Seems to me the DAL pilots have taken quite a hit already. How much more does DAL management want pilots to give up? Has all levels of management gave
95 N766UA : No upper-level managment types have taken ANY cuts. That's the problem with alot of airlines these days and that's why labor relations suck.
96 DeltaGuy : The 757 is classified as a widebody for the purposes of training and payscales, to the a.net user it is a narrowbody. The 757 and 767 are the essenti
97 Dokken10 : I would have to say Tilton and his gang take the cake, so far. Employees at UAL got screwed on the ESOP program. Tilton and his gang got new stock wi
98 Bucky707 : The 88 pays 138 an hour and the 737-200 pays 134. Even using the lower number, the 757/767 pay (155 an hour) is not 30% higher. Its more like 15%.
99 Alitalia744 : Didn't Gerry and Whitehurst take a cut? C'mon, Management is partially at fault, but you people need to realize it's a different world today...
100 Bobnwa : I really doubt that is true!!
101 Dokken10 : Besides employee paycuts,lay-offs,BK(any high school grad. could have done that) what has DAL management done to change their business model and stop
102 Dokken10 : Please explain why its a different world today?
103 Dokken10 : " target=_blank>http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...4.htm Thx. for the link. I knew about that one and others like it. What I really would like to
104 Yellowtail : anyone know how their new route to BZE is doing.....they moved it up to daily from Sat only....but have been moving around the BZE departure times it
105 Alitalia744 : Work in this country is dictated by the economy, what you'll do for 100 someone will come in and do it for 90. It's rules of the game today!
106 DeltaGuy : That wasn't my quote, it was UA's. While mgmt has taken a few cuts, Jerry "graciously" reduced his salary to 300K-ish, they still want retention bonu
107 Dokken10 : That does not apply to management as I see it.
108 Dokken10 : Report on CNBC about DAL bonuses coming up!! Tune in now!!
109 Dokken10 : BK judge approves DAL executives severance package!! WTF!!
110 Dokken10 : Retention bonuses coming soon, I bet.
111 TinPusher007 : I disagree...I think song was/is an excellent product and the whole purpose of it was to test the theory. Now they know what kind of a product to off
112 TinPusher007 : Hey are there any online articles about this?
113 Dokken10 : They had to create Song to figure that out!! Thats lame!!
114 Dokken10 : I did not see them, sorry.
115 TinPusher007 : Point taken. But, of all the bonehead things DL has done to try to remain competitive, I think song was good...at least it worked. I always liked son
116 Skibum9 : Don't forget their over reliance on the very high cost RJs and deferring mainline flying to these margin killers. Buying OH and ASA, selling ASA at a
117 Post contains links Alitalia744 : Delta Receives Court Approval
118 Alitalia744 : MGT took paycuts. Delta's management is already paid significantly less than other carrier's management... it applies to everyone and should include
119 Post contains links Panamair : http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060222/94678.html
120 TinPusher007 : DL pilots took pay cuts as well and are also paid less than other carriers pilots including WN.
121 Panamair : Yes, and even they have severance packages. DL management had their severance packages all removed when DL entered CH.11. Until now, they were pretty
122 Dokken10 : " target=_blank>http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060222/94678.html Taken word for word from the Delta website. I swear CNBC said the package was worth 41 milli
123 Panamair : The number is around $14-15 million. CNBC got the 1 and 4 mixed up. The $14-15m is the max. amount if DL had to pay all of its management personnel i
124 Alitalia744 : And do DL pilots want a fucking cookie? Their company is not doing as well as WN.... Again, Management is partially at fault.
125 Dokken10 : Who is also at fault and details on why they are at fault?
126 TinPusher007 : No need for all that, I just made a similar comparisson as he did. How would you react if it happened to you? Give back nearly 50% of your compensati
127 Alitalia744 : Happened to me? It's happened to everyone pretty much in today's world in one way or another. Pilot's are no more special than anyone else in this wo
128 Dokken10 : Does that go for executives also? BTW todays world SUCKS if you have not noticed.
129 Raes : There seems to be a marked periodicity to the "how would YOU like it if / why don't YOU take a 50% pay cut" argument, and the "DL pilots already make
130 Halls120 : Partially? Who else is at fault for a flawed business plan? The tooth fairy?
131 GSPITNL : This message was deleted however I have removed why it was deleted and am reposting it " target=_blank>http://news.delta.com/article_displa...10100[Ed
132 Cadet57 : economic recession, 9/11, the war in iraq, gas prices, need I go on?
133 Jetdeltamsy : 10,000 people? try about 100,000 people which includes direct employees, subs and people whose companies provide ancillary services. it would be a di
134 Halls120 : WN, B6, FL and AA - among others - have all managed to escape bankruptcy operating in the same conditions as DL. Sounds to me like DL's management is
135 Dokken10 : According to the Bush admin. we are not in a recession! Outsourcing of good US jobs and people making less and paying more for most goods, so they cu
136 Dokken10 : Yes, you need to go on.
137 WDBRR : All this international Delta expansion reminds me of Braniff (I) in the late 70's when the were expanding to Europe, Asia and beyond almost overnight.
138 DeltaGuy : It is very clear- in fact, they were serving all employee's interests by opposing a needless expenditure, benefiting a useless and ineffective manage
139 SeeTheWorld : Compare the contract provisions for Southwest, AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier against United, Delta, Northwest, American (including benefits, pensions, et
140 Jetdeltamsy : It's called BANKRUPTCY. It's not fair, but neither is life.
141 Dokken10 : Since you seem to be so informed and creditable, let compare. Since this thread is about DAL lets just stick with them. Since you brought up unions a
142 Dokken10 : You are 100% correct, but we can still bitch about it. Who made it so unfair? The employees? The unions? Special interest groups,lobbyist,management?
143 Jetdeltamsy : If our management doesn't look at how other carriers are cutting costs in bankruptcy, then it is entirely possible that we will emerge from bankrupty
144 Dokken10 : Why don't the follow SWA business plan instead?
145 TL8490 : A question for the Pilots.... Since Management is really bad now...does that mean it was great when you got United +1.....
146 SeeTheWorld : My point is that you must compare not only the base wages but also the "work rules" at each airline, regardless of whether they are union or not. Sou
147 SeeTheWorld : EXACTLY!!!
148 KabAir : I'd like to make one point for those talking about how the economy dictates pay, and point out (accurately) that if you have a glut of potential emplo
149 Dokken10 : I know exactly what you are talking about. I hear that SWA pilot work more hours than DAL pilots, but without seeing the FULL contract of both its im
150 Dokken10 : Did you forget about the big consessions they gave in the early 90's?
151 FLALEFTY : Very well said! The key reason that WN succeeds is not its efficient equipment, or advertising, or pricing, but it is the fact that their management
152 Dokken10 : Being a X-NWA mechanic for about 3 years now, I can tell you first hand that the contracts between NWA and SWA were about the same for mechanics. I w
153 Dokken10 : EXACTLY!! If SWA management came to the employees and asked for paycuts I bet they would have no problem helping out!!
154 OttoPylit : Since this thread is pretty much dead, I will make my comment short. Sorry I was gone and missed out on the rest of it. In response to your replies,
155 Belizexp : The flt only ops 5 days now and the loads is light. I think your right with the departure time I also saw the flt is a direct flt into and out of LGA
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