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LOT In Edmonton?  
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

I was looking at LOT Polish Airlines' web-site and on their route map it showed Edmonton as a North American destination. Do they fly there?How often?With what equipment?Is there a large Polish population in Edmonton.

Thanks

LH423


« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNo YYC From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Yes, LOT does fly into YEG, on a weekly basis (At least during the summer months) to Warsaw. From what I have seen on the tarmac the equipment used is a 767-300.

User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Actually I think it's once every two weeks, I believe, at least when I looked it up it appeared that way. 767's are used, and to my knowledge it's only in the summer.

The route does seem a little odd, really. I suspect it's partly there in order to fill in the network a little, perhaps to edge in to try and eventually expand into the area. There are a lot of eastern European people on the prairies, but Poles aren't particularly prominent, and Edmonton's Polish community has never seemed terribly notable to me, the Ukrainians are much more so.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

This flight is only a summer charter, but it is very important because it offers a direct link from Western Canada to Eastern Europe, and not neccesarily just Poland, LOT's connctions throughtout Europe provide for a great way to get from Western Canada to Eastern Europe, without haveing to make so many connections...The rise in interest in Eastern European destinations Such as Odesa, Krakow, Prague, and Kyiv especially from those who are of Eastern European decent, like the thousands of Ukrainians out West has lead the major Canadian Charters like C3 ROYAL and AT begin looking at flying to these destinations...infact AT has laready started it's Warsaw run, and I have heard roumors that ROYAL was looking at setting up an entire Eastern European tour operation.....Edmonton, although seemingly odd at first was a great choice for LOT, because it also provides some good connections to the US, and other western Canadian cities...although YYC may have been a wise choice....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Yeah that is good for Edmonton. I wish the other westren Canada cities will get service to Europe. I hope YWG,YXE will see a 767 once in a while. It would be nice to see more wide bodies in these medium sized cities. Will LOT ever fly to YWG? YWG does have a large polish community. For intinse my hair dresser is polish and she goes to Warsaw once a year sometimes twice. She hates going through YYZ,LHR. I hope they even do a summer charter. Any opions.
Sorry for getting a little off topic
YWG777


User currently offlineYEG 757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

LOT only flies into YEG in the summer. In the past, they have used a 767-200 as well as the -300.

User currently offlineWestjet#1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

lot in yeg boy that's funny...you'd think they'd come to yyc before yeg. considering the size diff. from the two airports..

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

I found this funny as well. I'd have figured Detroit would get a LOT service. Detroit and eastern Michigan have large numbers of Slavic populations, particularily Polish and Bulgarian.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineNo YYC From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

What in the world does airport size have to do with whether an airline flys into a particular city? You can have the biggest airport on the planet, but if there aren't bodies interested in filling the seats your out of luck! When I lived in Calgary I don't recall there being a large Polish population, so why would LOT fly there? Now Vancouver, of all places is where LOT should be going, a city with a real airport, unfortunately with the demise of Canadian, Calgary will become a feeder, not a hub just like YEG, YXE, YWG, YYJ.

User currently offlineDaveT From Canada, joined Dec 2011, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1573 times:
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While everyone is out there second guessing the coming of christ.... (hope that does not get deleted?) I have been on the horn to YEG and we can expect a LOT 767 to arrive at YEG at 1305 hrs, Friday July 28, 2000.

I am unsure if it will continue on or turn around and head back to Warsaw.

I will be at YEG with camera in hand and post the pictures when they are developed.  



User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Why doesn't LOT decide to fly into YWG as well so it serves both Canadian Cities of YEG and YWG. Any comments? Also a bit off topic but how is that terminal doing in YEG? Any photos of the new terminal yet?
YWG777


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

LOT 767's regularly to YXE, I must say YWG777 that's about a far-fetched an idea as I can think of. Saskatoon is roughly 1/4 to 1/3 the size of the 3 big prairie cities, there's no way it would support LOT flights.

As to YYC vs. YEG, I would point out that the catchment area served by YEG is essentially the same population as YYC's, but YYC gets the benefit of almost all the connecting traffic, but there's nothing saying it has to be that way. Look at a map, and YEG is more logically placed for connecting flights to Europe. I do wonder, however, if part of LOT's reason for serving YEG has to do with the bilateral agreement it's service is governed by...

As to connecting passengers at YEG, it's not terribly great for US pax or even regional pax, although links are developing. And connections in Warsaw, well, at least from what I've seen LOT hasn't pushed that market too hard. They could, but don't seem to. There's potential for growth if they want, I know of quite a bit of traffic heading to eastern Europe from western Canada, but it would take some effort to generate/win that market.

BTW, NoYYC (where did you get the user name, anyways?) although it appears YYC won't be a major hub for AC/CP, it certainly has a good hub being built by WestJet. Also, Canadian geography dictates that our few major airports all have to handle some degree of connections simply to cover the huge amount of land, so some hubbing at YYC will remain, albeit probably of a fairly regional nature for AC/CP.

DaveT, looking forward to seeing the photos...  


User currently offlineDaveT From Canada, joined Dec 2011, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1556 times:
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To be honest, I only found out about this flight from the string we are creating....

Ummmm, regarding your question about flying a leg between YEG and YWG.... typically, these types of services of a foreign carrier are generally uneconomical and proove nothing but financial stress on the service. essentially that leg is a dead leg with no real revenue and I would imagine that LOT's marketers and planners have determened the YEG service to be good for the company.

Also, what freedom rights having been granted will also dictate just how "free" they can fly around the country.

I flew last out of YEG about a month ago and the structure seems to be taking shape well..... perhaps I can get a shot or two of it and if i remember, I will scan a picture and fire it over to you.

Hopefully any LOT pictures tomorrow will be of very good quality and they can get posted as YEG seems to be really lacking in the airliner.net data base.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

Thanks Dave T. Another thing about LOT is there are 5 prairie cities in Canada. YEG,YYC,YQR,YXE, and YWG. All these airports have one thing in common. They all have fairly long runways. YYC,YEG and YWG have the longest runways though so a 767 or a 747 can land on them. YXE takes a 4th and YQR takes a 5th. Why arn't any transborder or International flights flying in? My answer I think could be the demand in YQR, and YXE. But YWG certinally is the 3rd largest city on the Prairies and could use more International airlines. Beleive it or not in the 1970's KLM did fly a YWG-AMS. That route lasted for about 5 years tand then YWG went down the tubes in the 1980's. So why arn't there any. LOT would be perfect in YWG I am sure it would do well once a week. YWG has no International connection. AC dropped the LHR route QN only flies to Stasted in the summer only. Lots of people go to Europe and need at least 1 flight going out a week. That could work but not every day. Any opions?
YWG777


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

YWG777, welcome to the hub and spoke system: it doesn't matter what the demand is, if you're not the main hub, you don't get the flights. Not that YWG is a huge market (fairly middle sized actually) but still...

FWIW, YEG only gets charters, too, and it used to have a fair bit of scheduled transatlantic flights. It used to have FRA and LHR nonstops until the '90's. YWG also used to have LHR nonstops, from around 1960 to the '80's from what I can find, and another attempt in the early '90's.

YQR and YXE don't have the demand. The only international flights either airport has are 2X to MSP, and some seasonal charters to the US and Mexico. The markets at either city are only a fraction of the size of the big 3 prairie cities, with only 5 flights a day to YYZ for both airports combined - there's not enough demand, so they're not even worth considering until they grow.


User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

I'm gonna be in Edmonton from August 4th to 7th.(I'm not flying,so if I do a trip report it'll be on misc.transport.road ... LOL)
Does anyone know if LOT will be in YEG between those dates?
Any help would be greatly appeciated.
 


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

YWG has enough demand for International flights. YWG is not a YQF for intstance. YWG is a very large airport. even if AC tried the LHR route again once a week it would work. Not a daily thing though. In the future I predict YWG and YEG will have a transatlantic flight operating daily. I am sure LOT would fly into YWG. I mean YWG is a fair sized AC mini-hub if you know what I mean. AC has over 50 flights in and out of YWG a day.. Also YEG seems to get more transborder flights before YWG. Why?
YWG777


User currently offlineNo YYC From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

In all likelihood YEG will be getting scheduled LHR and FRA service by this time next year (According to the higher ups at the airport authority). It probably won't be daily service but twice or 3x's weekly. The flights will probably begin in YYC onwards to YEG and then overseas.

Slowly, YEG and Northern Alberta are building up demand for direct flights to various destinations. Along with an aggressive "Fly Edmonton First" campaign one can see increased activity at the airport. An airport that actually looks like an airport and not a morgue! As long as the demand increases will airlines consider providing direct service.

I must admit there is no better sight than flying south, looking down and passing Calgary at FL 270.

I'm sure somebody from Calgary will have something to say about this post. Fire away! As long as your nice.


User currently offlineSamurai 777 From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

That sounds right, No YYC! But it's a little strange why LOT would serve YEG in the first place and not Calgary, as Calgary sees more European tourists and has better business connections anyway. However, it remains to be seen as to what carrier will serve YEG from FRA and LHR. Air Canada? Fat chance. Look at how it axed the LHR-YEG route, while it was promising better air service from YEG. (Somehow, I don't trust airline execs much more than I do politicians!) Lufthansa? Maybe, but I have not heard anything. BA? Ha! Nothing here yet, either, and it doesn't look like it has much interest, but you never know - BA did indeed serve YEG and YYC for a very brief period in the early '80s. No YYC, your username sugeests that you're from Edmonton - is that right?

AC183, you're correct in that Edmonton doesn't have that large a Polish population - and that the Ukranian poluation is larger. But there are, however, some business connections, as I've seen in all my years of living in Edmonton.

What about the range limitation of a 767-200/300ER in going from Warsaw to YYC, as a possible reason for stopping in YEG instead? However, it doesn't sound that likely, as Edmonton and Calgary are not terribly far apart - only 30 minutes by jet a/c.


User currently offlineNo YYC From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Samurai 777: Yes, I am originally from Edmonton.

I'm not advocating that YEG become sometype of superhub. All I'm stating is that Edmonton and N. Alberta are presently underserved in regards to proper air service. The airlines have always stated if there is a demand for "lift" they will attempt to provide it. Well Mr. Milton, the Edmonton catchment area is at least as large if not larger than Calgary. We may not need service to Houston or Spokane but there are other destinations that would warrant direct service and turn a tidy profit margin for your monopoly.

It would be interesting to find out how many passengers from Edmonton and Northern Alberta fill the seats on the "lift" out of Calgary. Could Calgary sustain its present level of service if the YEG connections were eliminated?



User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1510 times:

How about making all AC Alberta-Europe flights originate at YYC, and having daily LHR and FRA nonstops from YYC, but taking the other LHR flight and flying YYC-YEG-LHR 4X weekly and YYC-YEG-FRA 3X weekly. This would reduce LHR capacity, and increase FRA flights, which is exactly what should be needed with CP pulling out of oneworld and moving towards Star Alliance, and would improve the route structure considerably. I think it could be sustainable, although selling it to the route planners might be a task in this hub-and-spoke world...

As to BA, I wonder, I'm hoping to see them at YYC, perhaps they'd do a LHR-YEG-YYC-LHR loop similar to how Martinair did with its AMS flights.


User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

I am reliably informed that the YEG-WAW service has the highest load factor on the LOT network. Sharing the flight with another city would not work. However, the flight operates on a charter basis (pro-AC bilaterals) and a couple of tour operators manage to fill all of the seats. LOT cannot offer connections on a charter service in tha same way as Martinair is restricted to charter services (similar pro-AC bilaterals).



User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Hi,

Alberta needs KLM or MARTINAIR and BA to operate a AMS-YYC-YEG-AMS and similarly LHR-YYC-YEG-LHR loop, I'm sure it prove successful, didn't KLM serve YYC sometime? Why did it stop?

Regards,
Marco



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Marco,
MP does serve YYC, YEG and YVR as a seasonal charter with 767-300s. The reason that it cannot operate scheduled services is the fact that Canada has some pretty complex air service agreements with most countries. For example, if the situation is not orted out for Icelandair, you can expect them to leave Halifax as the Canadians will not give them the rights that are needed to keep the route profitable.

Of course, Air Canada may feel sufficiently threatened by Icelandair to justify pushing them out of hte market. But I think they have had enough protection for long enough.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1498 times:

I can see YEG getting a LHR route. I have to dis agree on the FRA route though. I would say YEG I don't think will become a superhub quite yet but for sure a mini-hub to N. Alberta. How is that YEG-LAX route doing with CP. I think it was a good choice by AC/CP to add that one. I am sure that its bringing a lot of tourists from te extreme south west USA. YWG will be the next it after YEG to get a Europe Destionation. Also I herd that YEG may be expanding the airport runways and taxiways.Does any one know anything about it? Also I could see Rapid air for the YEG-YVR route.
YWG777


25 AC183 : YWG777, why would YEG-FRA be a "superhub"? A FRA route hardly makes any airport a superhub.... But why not YEG-FRA, the LH connections are quite impor
26 YWG777 : I didn't mean it in that way AC183. I ment a superhuub in International flights. YEG and YYC will be the next superhubs and I hope YWG is at least a m
27 Superdawg : Don't forget, that charters work quite differently in attracting people then the skeds. I'm mean who really would have thought that with quite a few c
28 Billy : Sorry, but my irony did not translate well. I feel that Air Canada does not need the protection of the Canadian Government bilaterals. However, AC doe
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