Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WSJ: China Firms Up Full 150-frame 737 Deal  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Brief fair use excerpt:

Beijing Firms Up Deal To Buy 80 More Boeing Jets

SINGAPORE -- Beijing is firming up an oral agreement to buy 80 more Boeing 737s three months after making its first, written commitment for 70 of the aircraft during President Bush's visit to China, a senior Boeing executive said.

Completion of the combined 150-jet deal, which could come during Chinese President Hu Jintao's planned visit to the U.S. in April, would make it the biggest batch of Boeing planes to be sold in China so far.

Chinese aviation authorities have already signed contracts and paid deposits for the initial 70 single-aisle 737s that they committed to buy when Mr. Bush traveled to China in November, said Larry Dickenson, senior vice president for the Asia-Pacific region for Boeing's commercial aircraft unit. That sale, at list prices, is valued at about $4 billion, though buyers usually get substantial discounts, especially for large orders.

[...]


[Edited 2006-02-21 17:58:33]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Congratulations to Boeing, Chinese Airlines and the 737.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Do you think Boeing new what they were doing when they built this 737?


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5458 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 2):
Do you think Boeing new what they were doing when they built this 737?

Nah, it'll never sell.  Wink


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

This was my belief all along. China orders are political. And it's one reason that Boeing says Airbus was lying about their 150 firmed orders in 2005 for the A320. Boeing likely had THE SAME deal at the time, but didn't feel it was right to list all 150 at that time, and got pissed when Airbus took liberties to 'win' the year. Just my take on the whole thing. Either way, they both sold about the same number of planes, with or without the China order.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

It will be very interesting to see where they will deploy all airplanes. ATW had an article which said that there are just 194 certified airports in China, compared to 14807 Airports in the US, 444 in Australia and tiny Iceland has 100 airports.


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5791 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

It seems to me that Boeing is being a bit more honest in accounting for when orders are firmed and deposits are paid.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

Congratulations to both Boeing and China. This had been rumoured for some time but its good to get a final confirmation. Its always great to see this old girl attract some major orders. But just like the 150 A320 order, this is nothing more than politacly motivated.


Looks like 2006 is also starting of well for comercial aviation.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 704 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
It seems to me that Boeing is being a bit more honest in accounting for when orders are firmed and deposits are paid

I wouldn't call Airbus dishonest, or Boeing "honest"... Different companies in different countries have different way of doing things...


User currently offlineCuprita From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5181 times:

Fantastic news for Boeing.


PANASONIC DMZ-FZ5
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 8):
I wouldn't call Airbus dishonest, or Boeing "honest"... Different companies in different countries have different way of doing things...

The fact is that what some people are alleging that Airbus did is not legal under GAAP. While GAAP is a U.S. standard, the EU is slowly moving towards it.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13302 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5081 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 5):
ATW had an article which said that there are just 194 certified airports in China, compared to 14807 Airports in the US, 444 in Australia and tiny Iceland has 100 airports.

While the CIA factbook agrees with your total numbers, you must subtract out *unpaved runways* for commercial service (I don't think a dirt runway could support a 737!). Also, the 737 isn't operating on a <914m runway...:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

Personally, I wouldn't consider runways below 1.5km suitable either:
US airports: I count 414 with 2438m+ runways, 1816 airports with 1524m+!

Quote:
Airports - with paved runways:
Definition Field Listing
total: 5,120
over 3,047 m: 191
2,438 to 3,047 m: 223
1,524 to 2,437 m: 1,402
914 to 1,523 m: 2,355
under 914 m: 949 (2005 est.)

china 174 with 2437m+ runways, 313 with 1524m+ (so China is doing ok):

Quote:
Airports - with paved runways:
Definition Field Listing
total: 389
over 3,047 m: 54
2,438 to 3,047 m: 120
1,524 to 2,437 m: 139
914 to 1,523 m: 23
under 914 m: 53 (2005 est.)

iceland: 1 with a runway over 2438m, 4 with 1,524m+ runways.

Quote:
Airports - with paved runways:
Definition Field Listing
total: 5
over 3,047 m: 1
1,524 to 2,437 m: 3
914 to 1,523 m: 1 (2005 est.)

So with 313 airports in China ready for the 737, they'll do ok.

Congrats to Boeing on this large sale. Will these be made on the 2nd 737 line?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 704 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 10):
The fact is that what some people are alleging that Airbus did is not legal under GAAP. While GAAP is a U.S. standard, the EU is slowly moving towards it.

Exactly. So Airbus did not break any laws by posting their Chinese orders on their 2005 books. If EU adopts GAAP in 2006, Airbus cannot follow the same practice.


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 6):
It seems to me that Boeing is being a bit more honest in accounting for when orders are firmed and deposits are paid.

More to the point, Boeing can't get away with the Shennanigans Airbus pulled at the end of the year. The investors, media and government would jump all over them.

a) Because Boeing has active investigations for some of their actions under Condit.
b) Because moving up orders like this and "warming up the books" was a direct factor in the .COM crash.

Airbus can get away with the same actions because the European laws are different, they don't have the same stigma, and the .COM crash happened in America, not Europe.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 12):

Exactly. So Airbus did not break any laws by posting their Chinese orders on their 2005 books. If EU adopts GAAP in 2006, Airbus cannot follow the same practice.

Airbus is protected from a ton of different reporting requirements because of the unique EADS/Airbus structure. It should be noted that the new accounting rules (Sarbenes/Oxley) in America are far stricter still then GAAP when it comes to reporting requirements.


User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

I wonder if any of these orders will be for the -900ER? I hope so.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2754 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 11):

Thank you Lightsaber, for a very interesting post. I have been looking at the world fact-book, but never realised this.

One might expect that China eventually someday will surpass the US in the number of airports considering the population in the US compared to China.  Smile


US Population 295,734,134 (July 2005 est.)
China population 1,306,313,812 (July 2005 est.)



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2827 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4624 times:

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 15):
US Population 295,734,134 (July 2005 est.)

IIRC, The US will/has passed 300MM people some time this month. By 2020 The US will be larger then the entire EU population.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4455 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 16):
By 2020 The US will be larger then the entire EU population.

Huh?
US population might be around 350mil, by 2020.
EU is already 450mil, by 2020 could be around 600mil. (Ukraine, Turkey and others joining)


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Yes but isn't the EU population actually declining due to low birth rates and an aging population?

User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 18):
Yes but isn't the EU population actually declining due to low birth rates and an aging population?

but will increase when the next set of nations join. One day even Russia could apply although I doubt that will happen due to geography and many other factors.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Either way, they both sold about the same number of planes, with or without the China order.

The only people pushing this issue and making allegations are cheerleaders. Bottom line is that both orders are going to happen as there is the demand for both sets of aircraft and then some.

In fact some posters who were making wild allegations about Taiwan and not caring about Boeing sales are now having to eat their words. A little restraint from both sides would be nice.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3436 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe there will be some 737-700ER orders from China...you just never know. I think it would be cool to see the order book for the -900ER's to swell.

User currently offlineAbba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1373 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
This was my belief all along. China orders are political. And it's one reason that Boeing says Airbus was lying about their 150 firmed orders in 2005 for the A320. Boeing likely had THE SAME deal at the time, but didn't feel it was right to list all 150 at that time, and got pissed when Airbus took liberties to 'win' the year. Just my take on the whole thing. Either way, they both sold about the same number of planes, with or without the China order.

In China everything is political indeed. However, there was a difference between the Airbus deal and the Boeing deal. With Boeing China was giving the US a certain punishment because GW had come up with some politically sensitive statements before going to China (wasn’t it in Japan he said something about human rights or Taiwan that the Chinese didn’t particularly like?). Boeing, therefore, did not have their 150 at that time. They only got the rest - at least officially - later. Airbus got all theirs at once as no EU head of stat happened to have offended the Chinese sensitivities right before the order was to be given.

Abba


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing Firms Up 737 Replacement Studies. posted Thu Mar 2 2006 14:03:31 by WINGS
China LOI Up To 70 737's posted Mon Nov 21 2005 21:21:41 by Mark777300
Ryanair Orders UP To 150 New Boeing 737-800! posted Thu Jan 24 2002 14:29:35 by Airblue
Air Europa Firms Up A350 + Leases From Gecas posted Wed Jan 25 2006 18:10:54 by N1786b
UPS Firms Up Its A380F Order posted Tue Dec 13 2005 14:48:34 by N1786b
Royal Air Maroc Firms Up 4x 787 Order posted Wed Dec 7 2005 05:50:46 by 777ER
WSJ: CIT To Acquire 10 Undelivered Delta 737-800s posted Tue Dec 6 2005 15:30:50 by N328KF
Interjet Firms Up 10x A320 Order + Options. posted Wed Nov 2 2005 20:41:43 by WINGS
Jet Airways Firms Up 10x A330-200 Order. posted Wed Oct 26 2005 10:19:52 by WINGS
9W Firms Up On The A330 posted Sat Oct 22 2005 11:52:42 by Sam737