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Song (un)officially Dead In May  
User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6059 times:

Hey guys,
it appears as if the dreaded May schedule has come out. I was searching for BDL-FLL to go home for summer break and I have good news and bad news

The good news:
It will still be in a 1 class song aircraft
it will still be under the same flight numbers

the bad news:
its no longer a song operated by Delta
which means:
the fare is ridiculasly expensive. The same class as it was on song went from $100 to $259! It is now CHEAPER to connect in ATL.

I am not too happy about this. How does DL expect to fill the plane with fares THAT much higher?

I'm not sure if the other schedule changes are there at this time

please feel free post any other new schedule changes for may or more info on the song transition if possible! Thanks!

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6038 times:

Well thankfully I shot some on Sunday. Im gonna miss those snot-rockets.... But I agree with you, all those flights were leisure fare's, with folks who dont want to connect. But then again, they were [i]leisure[i/] fares which ment DL made no money on them. But people will still fly direct, becasue its direct, even if it costs more.


Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6027 times:

Actually i think this was just a name change from Song to Delta, thats it, but I still dont think May schedule has come out. Though this is likely a sign that the schedule update is comming soon. All i know is im trying to plan a trip to get on song before song is over and done.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6003 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
But people will still fly direct, becasue its direct, even if it costs more.

well, I've been a loyal DL flier all my life. I am flying WN BDL-MCO-FLL in March because I decided to travel later than the nonstop (and that backfired on me, so now I'm stuck with a morning WN connection because of my stupid spanish class)...
anyway, as loyal to DL as I have been, I am still a poor college student and I would fly WN if the price is right. Also, I don't care how in the red you are, you still have to offer liesure fares on these routes...and I'd like to add that the BDL routes are $250 while the LGA, JFK, and BOS fares are $70 :::caugh:::jetblue:::caugh::: (should I really be suprised that its only BDL losing their liesure fares...should I be worried that BDL will lose their FLL n.s?)


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5984 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 3):
and I'd like to add that the BDL routes are $250 while the LGA, JFK, and BOS fares are $70 :::caugh:::jetblue:::caugh:::

Well, frankly, there is no competition, well there is WN, but with DL's product you get IFE, BOB food and just a better ride IMHO. but it all boils down to the fact of supply and demand, DL and WN are the only suppliers, so they can charge what they want. But since B6 is undercutting them at evey station, they still have low fares....



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5932 times:

Well, welcome to WN then. I am a loyal CO flier, but that doesn't mean I don't take another airline once in a while, and WN is a nice airline to fly. You won't have your PTV's, that's true, but I still like them.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 3):
should I be worried that BDL will lose their FLL n.s?)

I doubt it, since FLL is a large market from BDL and DL is the primary (only?) n/s provider. With DL trying to eliminate all the leisure fares, i highly doubt all those BDL-FLA seats will remain intact, but i think all destinations will remain. The hardest thing is that there is no competitive force there besides WN, but nothing like what BOS JFK and LGA have.

Here is what I can see for BDL-post song ( by fall when transition is complete)

FLL 1-2 mainline (732/MD88/738/757)
MCO 2 mainlline (732/MD88/738/757)
TPA 1-2 mainline (732/MD88/738/757)
LAX goes to a 738 4-5x/ week
PBI Either 1 smaller mainline or perhaps will become 2x CR7 like RSW.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5901 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 3):
anyway, as loyal to DL as I have been, I am still a poor college student and I would fly WN if the price is right. Also, I don't care how in the red you are, you still have to offer liesure fares on these routes...and I'd like to add that the BDL routes are $250 while the LGA, JFK, and BOS fares are $70 :::caugh:::jetblue:::caugh::: (should I really be suprised that its only BDL losing their liesure fares...should I be worried that BDL will lose their FLL n.s?)

250 bucks is a good deal, and 70 bucks is a steal. Offering money losing non-stop leisure fares while in the red is fiscal stupidity. Where are they going to make the money back from?

I'd rather airlines protect themselves with higher prices, preventing people who have no business flying from doing so. Rather than becomming the city busses in the sky.

Your case is just another example of people looking for the cheapest fare, having no airline loyalty, and still complaining about the price.

[Edited 2006-02-22 17:55:31]

User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5879 times:

I thought the plan was to start converting these planes to a 2 class config, initially using them on all their current routes, but eventually expanding it to all flights over 1750 miles. However, I also thought that, unfortunately, the BOB program would be discontinued.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineFXMD11 From Thailand, joined Aug 2004, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5861 times:

Quoting Flairport (Thread starter):
the fare is ridiculasly expensive

Well, I had to pay 769.00 US$ to do JFK-LAX-JFK December 18/21 which I found ridiculasy expensive. OK, I only booked the ticket a week ahead, but
thought that this was a really high fare. Booking Class B. Never got the miles
for it either. Next time, will do UA for 298.00 US$ or may be even Jetblue.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 8):
I thought the plan was to start converting these planes to a 2 class config, initially using them on all their current routes, but eventually expanding it to all flights over 1750 miles. However, I also thought that, unfortunately, the BOB program would be discontinued.

Well things regaridng post song at DL have been very quiet. My own personal assumption is that the song 757s will be replacing the 763 and 764s domestically as those 76's get placed internationally. MD88/738s replace the 757s and down the line you go.....



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):
I feel you..obviously you have encountered enough strife growing up in upper middle class, white collar Connecticut, and attending school in Florida. 250 bucks is a good deal, and 70 bucks is a steal. Offering money losing non-stop leisure fares while in the red is fiscal stupidity. Where are they going to make the money back from?

IMO, that's rude and you have no right to talk to him like that. Flairport is actually from Florida and attends school in Connecticut, but that's besides the point. He was simply explaining that $259 is double what he had paid to fly Song previously, that the connecting flight is cheaper than the non-stop flight, and WN is offering a better fare.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5754 times:

Quoting FXMD11 (Reply 9):
Never got the miles
for it either.

Stop bitching. Call Delta. They'll give you the credit.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
Well things regaridng post song at DL have been very quiet. My own personal assumption is that the song 757s will be replacing the 763 and 764s domestically as those 76's get placed internationally. MD88/738s replace the 757s and down the line you go.....

Well, I know the 757s are going to replace the majority of the 763s and 764s domestically, but I've been told that DL is not going to switch from the 757s on the routes which song currently serves. I mean really...they fought hard against B6 to regain control of the market. I highly doubt they're going to put us back on the dreaded M80s.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 11):
IMO, that's rude and you have no right to talk to him like that

Here's a suggestion JetBluefan1...shut it.  Smile



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 12):
but I've been told that DL is not going to switch from the 757s on the routes which song currently serves. I mean really...they fought hard against B6 to regain control of the market.

I agree they will keep a good product from BOS and JFK... what they do in BDL will be most interesting since their only competition there is no frills WN.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5635 times:

Easy now people.... I agree the comment was out of line, however, i think we all need to realize the days of low fares as we knew them are gone. Just two years ago i was paying $1.25 a gallon for gas and $125 r/t from FLA-PVD. The revenue environment today doesnt allow for those low fares to exist and i think BDL had some fares lower than were necessary (no B6 competition and limited WN compeition). Gas stations would not be in business if they were still offering it for $1.25/ gallon, same goes for airlines.

Best way to see if you are gettign a decent deal is just calulate the yeild.

BDL-FLA (1100 mi) @ 0.10 = $110 e/w = $220 fare + taxes and fees means $259 r/t is a very fair fare.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2980 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 15):
as I realized that I came across as mean to Flair.. I edited my post accordingly.

Thanks for doing so. I don't think you meant to come across as rude but I understand how you're feeling. $259 is a reasonable fare for BDL-FLL, and I wouldn't mind paying it, but if there's a lower fare I'd definitely buy that one.

In any case, I commend DL for attempting to increase its revenue on routes that traditionally have low fares. However, to be successful in doing so, I would think that WN would have to match the fare increase or DL would have to drop capacity.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

DL should keep BDL with the low fares b/c I herd that they do great there on the BDL-FLA routes and by now making the fare sky high, they will most likely lose some PAX to WN and have tons more have to connect through ATL. I mean yea to connect through ATL is great b/c you have so many options but when you want BDL-Florida and a lot of people fly it and there is more than enough PAX to support the route, just keep it low.

Anyway, where can I find the schedule on the internet?
Thanks
 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 17):
I would think that WN would have to match the fare increase or DL would have to drop capacity.

WN would have to LOWER their fare to match DL!...Yet another example of how DL was offering fares much lower than they should have out of BDL

Lowest possible WN fare (in May) for BDL-FLL is $279!



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 18):
but when you want BDL-Florida and a lot of people fly it and there is more than enough PAX to support the route, just keep it low.

Why would any airline, esp once in BK want to offer low fares when they dont have to? My point is cut out the money loosing seats and let WN/LCCs have them. Offer a superior product to those who pay more, no crazy high fares, but decent ones where the airline breaks even.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

I enjoyed flying Song MCO-JFK & LGA....hopefully DL will incorporate their product into more of their main fleet and fare structure, I feel more people may try the service...

User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 15):
as I realized that I came across as mean to Flair.. I edited my post accordingly.

hold on buddy...you're not going to get off that easy!

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):
250 bucks is a good deal, and 70 bucks is a steal.

yes it was a big steal! My comment was that people are not going to go from $70 to $250 overnight! I expected a fare increase, but when 2 people have to go up and 3 come down to pack me up for college, thats a total of $1250! As opposed to $350! $250 is great for me, but not for the 2 times a year that I travel up with my family and they go home! Also, the market on FL-NE is not like the market in the Ohio area!

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):
Your case is just another example of people looking for the cheapest fare, having no airline loyalty, and still complaining about the price.

WRONG! I have loyalty to DL! I have been flying them for years! yes, if B6 had a nonstop, I'd probably fly them, but the reason I'm on WN this time is because of a scheduling error! Please understand, I'm a college student, money is tight for me, so sometimes I have to break from my loyalty, but I am a Deltaian thru and thru!

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 11):
Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):
I feel you..obviously you have encountered enough strife growing up in upper middle class, white collar Connecticut, and attending school in Florida. 250 bucks is a good deal, and 70 bucks is a steal. Offering money losing non-stop leisure fares while in the red is fiscal stupidity. Where are they going to make the money back from?

IMO, that's rude and you have no right to talk to him like that. Flairport is actually from Florida and attends school in Connecticut, but that's besides the point. He was simply explaining that $259 is double what he had paid to fly Song previously, that the connecting flight is cheaper than the non-stop flight, and WN is offering a better fare.

Now I understand you apologized, but i just want you to understand that it is such a large fare jump. Like I said if it was $70 to $150 it wouldn't matter. I see it as now that the song brand is gone, they can charge a premium and while thats not wrong, I don't know if its wise in this case.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
$220 fare + taxes and fees means $259 r/t is a very fair fare.

actually that was the one way fare!

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 19):
Lowest possible WN fare (in May) for BDL-FLL is $279!

I got $120 one way on the same day.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4663 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 22):
I got $120 one way on the same day.

The $279 was the $120 e/w + taxes and fees.

Id love to see anything like that for ATL-PVD!.... I miss the cheap FLA fares. Im lucky to find anything under $400 for ATL-PVD.

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 22):
My comment was that people are not going to go from $70 to $250 overnight

First gas prices, now airlines!



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13014 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4784 times:
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Quoting Flairport (Thread starter):
The same class as it was on song went from $100 to $259! It is now CHEAPER to connect in ATL.

I am not too happy about this. How does DL expect to fill the plane with fares THAT much higher?

 rotfl  Does this mean that DL isn't in a pissing contest with everyone and is actually going to persue RASM? While I agree this is a jump in fares... It would have broken my bank back when I was in college, so I feel your pain. However, it is a free market and you can take cheaper options (which I've noted you've done).  spin 

If I interpret your post 20 a little, you seem to be arguing for a "boiling frog" scenario where a slow increase in fares would preserve business/loyalty/customer relations rather than a sharp jump that everyone notices. Or did I put words in your mouth? $259 one way for your ticket isn't that bad, but it appears more than others will offer a 1-stop service for less. Gotta love the free market!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
I agree the comment was out of line, however, i think we all need to realize the days of low fares as we knew them are gone.

I partially agree (or maybe totally, interpreting "tone" in posts is tough) in that fares will go up. However, I see no reason they won't stay low(ish). WN, B6, and others seem to be raising fares $40-$80/roundtrip not by $400 back up to the "good ol' days" of $1000+ walk up fares. (Yes, I know they still exist in some domestic markets... ouch!)

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 17):
WN would have to LOWER their fare to match DL!...Yet another example of how DL was offering fares much lower than they should have out of BDL

This I agree with also. DL seemed to aim for the foot and then reload... There is no reason their RASM couldn't be higher as this one example shows. I'm not saying they should get greedy, but a 10% increase in RASM (yes, that means a 15% to 20% increase in fare due to lower load factors) should be possible. IIRC they had about a 9.7 RASM. A 10.5 RASM would be pretty close to their BK inflated CASM. (Not quite, but at least slow the blood letting.)

For the record: DL was the first airline I flew on. For that reason and others I hope they make it. However, as their service from LAX has become... sparse... I admit I haven't flown them in a few years.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineTPAnx From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4736 times:

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 7):
I'd rather airlines protect themselves with higher prices, preventing people who have no business flying from doing so. Rather than becomming the city busses in the sky.

Who..in your opinion.."has no business flying?"
TPAnx



I read the news today..oh boy
User currently offlineNycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

One benefit for me will be that I can no fly delta to fl and get CO onepass miles for it (wasnt able to on song so always tried to avoid it whenever heading down there)


Father, Son, HOYA spirit
25 Post contains images DL4EVR : Didn't know song was except from OnePass....guess you learn something new everyday ...not that this knowledge really will matter within the next few
26 Mytravel330 : I would have thought that the mere point that you have booked a flight means you have business in flying on that plane even if it is for the ride,and
27 SESGDL : I don't know what schedules you all are looking at because all of the ones I've looked at still say Song 2*** even after May 1, 2006. Where are you lo
28 Panamair : At delta.com, the Reservations section offers you a selection of flights with Delta 2*** but if you look at the Flight Schedules section, they still
29 RL757PVD : I wouldnt trust any Delta schedule after 5/1/05 until the major update is done.
30 DeltAirlines : All I know is I'm looking forward to it happening...it'll be about time elites get pre-boarding and upgrades on these routes again...I will admit I ha
31 SR 103 : As a Skyteam Elite Plus, I have had no issues with pre-boarding on Song flights, especially in Orlando. Good for you, however if you never tried Song
32 Post contains images DL4EVR : As far as I know, the 5/1/05 schedule has been done for quite sometime now...at least a good 9 months Unless you're in a wheelchair or something of t
33 SongStar : song actually had preferred seats...rows 1-4 were preferred and would board in Zone 1...I understand the medallions frustration....however, for over 2
34 Post contains images RL757PVD : That doesnt mean its correct All airlines post up to 331 days in advance, however typically they are only accurate 2 months in advance. Often times y
35 Post contains images DL4EVR : You don't get it, lol. You keep saying 5/1/*05* ....you mean 5/1/*06*
36 RL757PVD : Thats what happens when u add 60 hrs/ week + little sleep! lol
37 DL4EVR : LOL I hear ya. High school senior here who has a 11 hour day *before* he gets home to do homework!!!
38 FLAIRPORT : as for the "prefered seating"...if i got to the airport early i could pick the close up seats. will that still apply until 1st class is offered?
39 DL4EVR : You mean if you pay for a coach fare, and get to the airport early, you get to choose a F seat??? Are you smokin somethin? LOL Unless you're a Medall
40 SongStar : Yes you could...however...Other than the pre-boarding...there's no perk to sitting in the front cabin ...what I consider premium seats are...17 A, C,
41 DL4EVR : No he means when F comes back. When there actually ARE perks to sitting in the front cabin, when it has a 26F seat config.
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