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No More Migs, Tupolevs, Yaks. Etc  
User currently offlineTexfly101 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 351 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Ran across this interesting article. Russia is making their aircraft industry a "one maker shop". Very interesting impacts as the future world will not be a B vs A world (too bad for the people who love to get wrapped up in that dispute). Add in Russia and China and its a 4 player world at the very least. My bet on the winner is the airframe manufactor that pairs best with an engine manufactor for an alternate fuel source. I'm posting the entire article rather than a link as the Times is a "pay per view" for some articles. Its from the New York Times, 2-22-06

MOSCOW, Feb. 21 -- When the Russian carrier Aeroflot announces next month which manufacturer will replace part of its aging fleet of long-range passenger jets, a Russian contestant will not even be in the running.

Yet much more than next month's deal is at stake. A fierce battle here between Boeing and its rival, Airbus, is just getting warm, with Airbus talking Tuesday of a long-term cooperation pact worth $25 billion as it jostles to gain the upper hand.

At the same time, Russia is planning an aviation-industry comeback of its own. President Vladimir V. Putin signed a decree on Tuesday creating a huge aviation entity, combining the nation's six major aircraft design and manufacturing companies into a single holding with substantial state control.

And in an acknowledgment of failure, Russia is largely withdrawing from the wide-body passenger jet business, after the Ilyushin 96, which entered service in 1992 as the pride of the domestic passenger fleet, proved unable to compete with Western-made aircraft.

Under Tuesday's decree, Russia will focus on smaller regional passenger jets with 100 seats, as well as military and transport aircraft. That way, analysts say, an industry that was flat on its back in the years after the Soviet Union collapsed may be in position to try a comeback.

"Putin has gone through with it," Elena Sakhnova, a transportation analyst at the United Financial Group, a Moscow brokerage firm, said in a telephone interview. "This is a real important change. The merger removes unnecessary competition and puts design bureaus and production assets under one roof."

With shared engineering and manufacturing skills, and the promise of Kremlin patronage, the new company could make Russian manufacturing a formidable competitor to Western makers, Ms. Sakhnova and other analysts said. The announcement came as Boeing and its European rival Airbus were competing for a contract to sell Aeroflot 22 or 23 planes, worth about $3 billion, for routes from Moscow to North and South America and Asia.

The Russian producer Ilyushin, the world's only other maker of wide-body passenger jets, was excluded from the bidding.

The battle here of the big Western companies became visible early Tuesday, when a representative of Airbus said the company was in talks with Russia for parts and design work that could total $25 billion in the coming decades. A spokesman at Airbus headquarters, however, refused to confirm the remarks.

Boeing and Airbus want both to sell aircraft and to scoop up engineering and design talent that might leave Russian companies after the merger that was just decreed.

Russian officials say the new holding company will have an initial capitalization of $10 billion, and that minority shareholders will be folded into the new company through share swaps. The government already has controlling stakes in all the components.

The merged company, to be called the United Aircraft Corporation, will combine Sukhoi, MIG, Tupolev, Irkut, Ilyushin and Yakovlev under one authority.

Russia will change its lineup of domestic-made passenger jets, shedding some, introducing new models and shutting outdated factories.

"We have a simple goal," said Andrei G. Reus, a Russian deputy minister of energy and industry, in an interview last month. "We are an aviation superpower and we intend to remain one. Nonetheless, we need to make some changes, which we are doing now." Mr. Reus spoke from the sprawling ministry building, a maze of red-carpeted hallways and large oak doors.

Analysts say that the Russian aircraft industry may be ready for a comeback. Its older long-range passenger jets, the IL-86 and IL-96, are rarely used on flights to Western destinations, though they fly extensively within the former Soviet Union.

The IL-86 was aimed at bringing spectators to the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, but did not enter service in time. It is no longer made. The newer IL-96 is banned at some European airports because it falls short of noise standards.

A decisive and embarrassing moment for the IL-96 program occurred last summer, when a particularly prominent IL-96, the presidential plane, broke down on a visit to Finland. The aircraft remained on the tarmac because of a brake problem while Mr. Putin flew home in a smaller plane. The president of Ilyushin was fired.

Usually, demands on the industry are less pointed. "We need to find a niche," said Yuri M. Koptev, the deputy industry minister in charge of aviation and a former director of Russia's space program, in an interview late last month. "Just as Boeing doesn't make a regional jet, we are also determining a direction for Russian aviation to become a world leader."

The merger will allow Russia to concentrate on a new Russian Regional Jet, or RRJ, that it hopes it can sell in Europe and the United States for short-range flights. Boeing is an adviser on the project.

Boeing estimates the wide-body jet market in Russia and other former Soviet republics at around 130 aircraft over the next 20 years. At list prices, they would be worth more than $19 billion today.

With the Aeroflot sale pending, the two Western companies have been emphasizing the work they are doing that has been outsourced here. Boeing's design center in Moscow, which opened with a dozen or so engineers hired through a cooperative program with Ilyushin in 1998, employs more than 1,200 Russians today. About 300 Russian engineers designed parts of the Boeing 787.

Airbus and its parent company, EADS, have invested $600 million over 10 years, the Europeans said here Tuesday. The company employs around 100 engineers at a Moscow design center, according to its Web site. Airbus will ramp up cooperation with Russia to $110 million annually by 2007, it said.

Over the longer term, Airbus is in talks to involve Russian manufacturers more closely in its A350 wide-body passenger jet program, while tapping Russian engineering talent for future airplane designs. Airbus is also in talks to offer Russia a contract for converting older passenger jets into cargo carriers.

"These partnerships aim to generate a turnover of $25 billion for Russia over the life of the programs," the Airbus statement said. But analysts said Airbus had rolled its existing business together with potential future expansion over many decades to arrive at the $25 billion figure; an Airbus spokesman said the company was not announcing new Russian deals.

Such announcements have become common here, where Airbus and Boeing are seeking business, though the Airbus claim on Tuesday was considered unusual. Generally, a big order is accompanied by promises of job creation in the client country. Almost always, at least a few parts will be made there as well.

For now, most of the foreign aircraft flying in Russia are Boeings -- 74 of 97 Western jets in service. But Airbus has a larger order book. To increase sales, each company will be trying to get in on the ground floor with the new Russian aerospace holding.

Boeing intends to invest $3 billion in Russian design and manufacturing through 2011, a spokesman, Viktor Anoshkin, said Tuesday. Boeing had anticipated the Russian aerospace merger, which was initially disclosed last year, and has a strategy for cooperation, he said.

"I guess," Mr. Anoshkin added, "that very, very soon, Boeing executives will start talking about specific projects because everybody was waiting for the signing of this decree."

Ms. Sakhnova, the aircraft analyst, said that the makers of fighter jets, MIG and Sukhoi, would combine efforts already under way on a new-generation Russian fighter.

How will the merger help this project?

"Naturally, nobody knows. It's secret," she said.

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

So how does this affect the Sukhoi/BOEING RRJ?

Should be interesting, though I still expect Aeroflot to go for the 787.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 1):
So how does this affect the Sukhoi/BOEING RRJ?

It was just yesterday that Finmeccanica announced that they were acquiring 25% of Sukhoi's civil division, and this announcement was today. Presumably Sukhoi saw the second announcement coming. Also, note that this announcement unites Sukhoi with two of their suppliers, Ilyushin and Yakovlev.

Anyhow, with regard to the thread title, I don't think the new company would be so stupid as to toss out the Sukhoi and Mikoyan brands.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1771 times:
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Quoting Texfly101 (Thread starter):
A decisive and embarrassing moment for the IL-96 program occurred last summer, when a particularly prominent IL-96, the presidential plane, broke down on a visit to Finland. The aircraft remained on the tarmac because of a brake problem while Mr. Putin flew home in a smaller plane. The president of Ilyushin was fired.

Perhaps one of the problems with the Russian aircraft manufacturing industry is the inclusion of policies like this. I mean, come on....although the plane is a presidential transport, I fail to see how a mechanical should result in the termination of the aircraft manufacturer's president.




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 3):
Perhaps one of the problems with the Russian aircraft manufacturing industry is the inclusion of policies like this. I mean, come on....although the plane is a presidential transport, I fail to see how a mechanical should result in the termination of the aircraft manufacturer's president.

Give them credit for progressing. Sixty years ago, the heads of design bureaus were terminated, in a different sense, for similar offenses.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineYukonTrader From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

Quoting Texfly101 (Thread starter):
The newer IL-96 is banned at some European airports because it falls short of noise standards.

Ops, that looks like bad research... If anything from the East still flies into the most noise aware airports like Salzburg etc., then the 96! Thanks to the PS-90A engines, the Il-96-300 is one of the few CIS-types left that does meet all noise regulations, along with the Tu-204. The Tu-154M and Yak 42 are currently also still squeezing into the limits. The above statement applies to the Il-86 which indeed exceeds stage III noise regulations.

See also Russian Aviation: One Big Player (by Nudelhirsch Feb 22 2006 in Civil Aviation)
Added a few cents already to the original thread on the topic, so won't comment again...

Cheers, Lukas


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12464 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1517 times:
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Quoting 2H4 (Reply 3):
I fail to see how a mechanical should result in the termination of the aircraft manufacturer's president.

IL-96s were grounded not because of a minor mechanical problem, but because uncertified parts were used in the manufacture of the planes. That clearly comes down to the top man at the manufacturing plant.

Grounded IL-96s:
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Photo © Steve Brimley
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Photo © Steve Brimley




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