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Federal Budget To Cut Funds To Small Airports, EAS  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3047 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

Courtesy: Regional Aviation News

Federal Budget To Cut Funds To Small Airports, EAS Carriers

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=5462

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Gone in the proposed budget is the Small Community Air Service Development grant program. Scaled back is the Essential Air Service (EAS) program. Fewer dollars are earmarked for the Airport Improvement Program (AIP).

Well, while I would be optimistic -- as I don't believe the federal government has any place funding any of these programs -- I of course know that none of these is probably every going to actually be eliminated. Some Congressman or Senator is going to make sure that some tiny little town in their district that has nowhere near enough traffic to actually support air service on a regular, competitive basis, gets free money from the federal government to subvert the free market and get two Beech 1900Cs per day. Sad, really.


User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2936 times:

The EAS program just be closed. Let the smaller communities bring raise there own money if they think there needs to be air service there in the first place.

User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2916 times:
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I say keep it going.
The government made airlines service dumb places or with totally too big equipment way back when(Frontier Convairs to Moab,UT and Duncan,OK) so why not keep it up.
They should make these places go 50/50 between local money and the rest of the nations tax money.
As well, there are places close enough to an airline served airport to not warrant any service (Latrobe,PA).
There is so much waste in our government now thanks to those fine, smart folks in DC (!?!?!?),why not use some for something that is at least a use to someone?



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2906 times:

I'm a fan of the EAS program. People need to travel, and they cannot do anything about the fact that their community may be too small to support air service. It is not expensive for the taxpayer, and unlike many ways money is spent, provides a really good service to the citizens of this country.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2897 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 3):
As well, there are places close enough to an airline served airport to not warrant any service (Latrobe,PA).

Latrobe is NOT an EAS market. Money that went to NW/Mesaba for this latest venture was primarily state/local.


User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2871 times:

I would have to agree with the FAA. SCASD is a waste of money; it just allocates a lot of money to airports that don't need it anyway. EAS, on the other hand, is essential (hence the name). People do need to get from the boondocks to LGA or LAX, so there is definite justification for that. Just my 2 cents.


Next flight: GRR-ORD-CLT-MUC-CLJ-MUC-YYZ-CLE-GRR
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 3):
The government made airlines service dumb places or with totally too big equipment way back when(Frontier Convairs to Moab,UT and Duncan,OK) so why not keep it up.

Because it's a waste of hard-earned Americans' taxpayer dollars.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 4):
People need to travel, and they cannot do anything about the fact that their community may be too small to support air service.

Neither can I, so why should I pay for their flights?


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9239 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):

Neither can I, so why should I pay for their flights?

because they pay for your interstate roads and for your local airport, too.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Why would you consider flying half-empty 19-seat Jetstreams and Beech 1900s around to be "essential" yet consider the successful SCASD grant program to be wasteful?


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 8):
because they pay for your interstate roads and for your local airport, too.

It's a fair point, and as long as you make it, I'd like to make it clear that I wish that did not receive federal funding either, but perhaps merely federal oversight at the most. That still doesn't excuse the fact that millions every year are being wasted on EAS -- wasted. If these small towns can't support EAS, that is not for the government to compensate for. Let the free market work its course.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9239 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

It's not so much about free market as it is a public works investment. Without the investment of the public dollars, there won't be a facility or an arena for the opportunity of any type of market place to exist in many of these locations.


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Neither can I, so why should I pay for their flights?

Its not just them. It is the communities. Outside people need to fly to these places too. Say you have relatives move to one of these towns and want to visit them, are you going to be glad that they have EAS service? I sure would be.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 12):
Say you have relatives move to one of these towns and want to visit them, are you going to be glad that they have EAS service?

I'd be more glad if they lowered my taxes, boosted the economy, putting more money in my pocket, and letting me decide to drive 90 minutes.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2807 times:
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Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
Latrobe is NOT an EAS market

OK, my error.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Because it's a waste of hard-earned Americans' taxpayer dollars.

So is the majority of govt expenses. So why not for a useful service?
Your money goes to AMTRAK as well, but how many people actually ride the train?



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
So is the majority of govt expenses.

No argument here.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
Your money goes to AMTRAK as well, but how many people actually ride the train?

Agree completely -- Amtrak is Essential Air Service sans the flight. Another waste of money that perverts the free market, subverts consumer choice, and hurts the economy.


User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Cut back EAS??? What will YV do with all the BE-1900 now.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 14):
Your money goes to AMTRAK as well, but how many people actually ride the train?

It is time to let AMTRAK go on their own.... if they don't make it, so be it!!



next flights ACY-ORD-DEN-IAH-ACY on UA
User currently offlineN312RC From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 2680 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Why on earth would you support EAS? Especially like some places in upstate New York that get Air Midwest B1900D equipment (ART, OGS, MSS).. They can drive to SYR and get a much higher standard of service, at a lower fare.

I remember a few years ago Great Lakes (or was it Trans States), would pay their employees to ride around on the B1900D EAS flights that didnt have any scheduled pax that day so the airline could collect the subsidy.. they subsequently got in trouble for that one.. shows you how many people fly on some of these routes.


I can see EAS being used in Alaska (which is where it's mostly used, just ask the staffer in Ted Stevens' office who is dedicated totally to getting EAS money appropriated for Alaska). Those towns are isolated up there, and although Im certain the money is abused, it still provides an essential service... not like some of these Mesa routes like Brookings, SD to Omaha, NE... I mean, seriously.



Fly Delta's Big Jets!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
That still doesn't excuse the fact that millions every year are being wasted on EAS -- wasted. If these small towns can't support EAS, that is not for the government to compensate for. Let the free market work its course.

You do realize that the total "wasted" on EAS each year, per citizen, wouldn't amount to enough to buy you a 20oz Coke to take on your next flight, right?

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 9):
the successful SCASD grant program to be wasteful?

Successful, yeah just look at all those success stories. Rockford, there's a shining example of government waste.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11147 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
You do realize that the total "wasted" on EAS each year, per citizen, wouldn't amount to enough to buy you a 20oz Coke to take on your next flight, right?

The amount is not the point -- its the principle. Again, it's still a waste.


User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

I am all for EAS because there are in fact some small towns that do rely on it. I go to school at Kansas State in MHK and I have taken advantage of the B1900 to MCI multiple times. It is a great service for the community and without it, everyone would be forced to drive 2.5 hours to MCI. Trust me, it is the longest 2 1/2 hour drive of your life. Plus, its on a toll road to add insult to injury..

Plus, what if you cant drive and dont know anyone? My freshman year I didnt have a car out here and so instead of trying to find someone willing to drive 5 hours to take me to the airport, I got a friend to waste 10 minutes to drive across town and back to drop me off at MHK. Point being, these services, which may seem trivial to those who live in a big city near a large and convenient airport, are greatly appreciated and USED by the public in towns such as mine. Believe it or not, but the majority of people in this country don't live in New York or LA...


User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

I say close the program. It never made sense to me how you could potition to bring Md-80's into Salina, KS- SLN when airports like Rockford,IL- RFD or Worcester,MA- ORH had no air service. Nix it NOW.


The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Whoa!....Many thoughts. Brain. Verge. Exploding. Need. Clarity.

I am just thinking of all the things the United States Federal Government does with our tax dollars. A big chunk of those dollars, in the billions, are being spent as we speak, well beyond the shores of this nation, for reasons I am not entirely clear on.

And yet here we are, confirmed and documented aviation aficionados, squabbling over a few million Bucks to send a Beechcraft to Brookings.
What is wrong with the world today?

In the big picture, does it really matter?

An Abrams M1A2 Battle tank costs about $5 million bucks.

The EAS program swelled to $110 million bucks this year.
Granted, way too much dough...but $50 million, the min. level mandated by Congress is just fine, enough to get the places that really need it; the airline service they need.
So instead of cutting EAS altogether, I suggest a compromise. (Which will never happen)
Tell the Army it needs to give up 10 of its tanks and be done with it....

Now, as to where to fund the $20 million for SCASD? We could look at farm subsidies here.....considering 10% of the farms receive 70% of the $19 billion dollars in farm subsidies.
Yes, that is $19 billion with a "B". (And we like call shame on Europe for subsidizing Airbus!!)

In summary, since the US Government loves to write checks, with no end in sight, why not write a few for a few airplanes?
It's only fair, isn't it?

The average American pays more taxes in support of subsidies to Nut farmers, than they do the EAS.

I HATE walnuts. I LOVE airplanes.



Delete this User
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 22):


Now, as to where to fund the $20 million for SCASD? We could look at farm subsidies here.....considering 10% of the farms receive 70% of the $19 billion dollars in farm subsidies.
Yes, that is $19 billion with a "B". (And we like call shame on Europe for subsidizing Airbus!!)

In summary, since the US Government loves to write checks, with no end in sight, why not write a few for a few airplanes?
It's only fair, isn't it?

The average American pays more taxes in support of subsidies to Nut farmers, than they do the EAS.

Like they say... the smartest farmers never grow a single crop.

For more fuel in the fire, the amount spent on EAS is nearly the amount that's spent "naming" highways every year. You know, stuff like the Mr. John Doe Highway, or the Jane Smith Interchange. Those signs all add up, and need replaced quite frequently due to fading, damage, weather, etc... and yes, that costs as much as EAS. What's more important to you?


User currently offlineSX36 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

EAS is what keeps NW/XJ at airports in Northern MN and most of ND. Without them there would be a lot of people making a long and sometimes dangerous drive during the winterto MSP/DEN/YWG.


NW, the only way out.....
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5222 posts, RR: 7
Reply 25, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

These programs are cheap (as government stuff goes) and popular in a lot of districts. My prediction is that Congress will put them both back in the budget and the White House will acquiesce.


Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
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