PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3085 posts, RR: 90 Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3179 times:
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Just announced at the Singapore Aerospace Show. Adam Air of Indonesia have ordered up to 30 A320s. Delivery to commence in 2007.
Source:
By Katherine Espina
Feb. 23 (Bloomberg) -- PT Adam Skyconnection Airlines, an Indonesia-based budget carrier, said it has placed an order for 30 of the A320 planes made by Airbus SAS to replace its fleet of Boeing Co.'s 737 aircraft.
[End - Fair use Excerpt]
This combined with Frontier and GoAir has seen a successfull week for the A320 in sales. Total of 46 A320 series firm plus 10 Options and 8 Conversions.
Scbriml From United Kingdom (England), joined Jul 2003, 8937 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3081 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter): Total of 46 A320 series firm plus 10 Options and 8 Conversions.
I think you can just about double that number - don't forget IC finally signed for their 43. All the talk of single-aisle replacements doesn't seem to have done much to slow the current buying frenzy.
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3085 posts, RR: 90 Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3024 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2): I think you can just about double that number - don't forget IC finally signed for their 43
Fair point Scbriml however, let's recall that M Forgeard stated that he expected no major orders during the Singapore Show. Yet Mr Leahy see's only around 800 to 850 total orders for both Airbus and Boeing this year. 46 firm have been announced this week add the 19 booked in January and IC as you mention and that's already 23% of their expected orders for the year assuming they retain 55% market share in terms of units sold.
Things that make you go Hmmmm? I think Airbus are being very conservative with their public forecast's this year.
Astuteman From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2005, 6303 posts, RR: 89 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2951 times:
Add the 90 or so 737's firmed up this month, and I make that around 200 narrowbody's confirmed already this year, amost all this month.
Pretty impressive.
Makes you wonder, though. Whereare the widebody orders? I'd have expected one or two single digit ones by now.
A
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18471 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2940 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3): Things that make you go Hmmmm? I think Airbus are being very conservative with their public forecast's this year.
Either that or they already know who's planning on ordering this year, and announcements are a formality. Airbus has a good winter and spring last year, and a good final month, and boeing had a better middle of the year, so you can't really project that 110 planes in 2 months equals 660 in 12 months.
That's like saying that since Boeing has only sold 45 737s and no other jets so far, they will sell nothing but 737s this year.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
CCA From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Oct 2002, 429 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2917 times:
Qantas considering stake in Indonesian LCC Adam Airc
Tuesday February 7, 2006
Qantas is considering acquiring a share of Indonesian budget carrier Adam Air to strengthen its position in the high-growth Southeast Asia market. Adam Air CEO Gunawan Suherman confirmed that Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon and CFO Peter Gregg were in Jakarta last Friday to discuss the acquisition of 20%-30% of the operation. According to Gunawan, Qantas is planning to establish Jakarta as a second Asian hub after Singapore. Adam Air began flying in December 2002 with 737s and currently operates 20 aircraft to 39 destinations, including Malaysia and Singapore. The privately owned LCC has flagged ambitions to triple its fleet over the next three years to 50 aircraft. Qantas already owns 49% of Singapore-based LCC Jetstar Asia. Under Indonesian law, foreign carriers may buy up to 49% of domestic airlines.
Who ??? By the time it more and more dawns on me: Airbus is setting up their own customers ...
Maybe not the worst idea. Just give a few hundred millions to some smart and aviation-experienced business men who set a new airline and expect them to buy your aircrafts ... . Just kidding, great deal for Airbus I hope ...
Astuteman From United Kingdom (England), joined Jan 2005, 6303 posts, RR: 89 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2787 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 8): Wasn't that 150 B737s for China?
Yes. My understanding was 80 of those have been firmed up this year, the other 70 having already been accounted for.
A
Scbriml From United Kingdom (England), joined Jul 2003, 8937 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2780 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting 777ER (Reply 8): Wasn't that 150 B737s for China?
No. It seems that China will order the balance of what was originally to have been 150 last year. But that was before some Texan upset the Chinese and they reduced the order to 70.
It is rumoured that the remaining 80 will be signed for when the Chinese Premier visits the US soon.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2788 posts, RR: 76 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2763 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter): Just announced at the Singapore Aerospace Show. Adam Air of Indonesia have ordered up to 30 A320s. Delivery to commence in 2007.
Excellent news for the A320 program. This is just another vote of confidence to the A320, especially from a current B737 operator.
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3): let's recall that M Forgeard stated that he expected no major orders during the Singapore
Maybe this particular order was not expected yet.
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3): Things that make you go Hmmmm? I think Airbus are being very conservative with their public forecast's this year.
Yes they are. It would be useful if they shut their mouth more often.
Quoting PADSpot (Reply 7):
Who ??? By the time it more and more dawns on me: Airbus is setting up their own customers ...
Actually no. They are snatching current Boeing customers. Dont forget that Adam Air is a current B737 operator that is going to switch over to the A320.
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3085 posts, RR: 90 Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2702 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5): so you can't really project that 110 planes in 2 months equals 660 in 12 months.
I'm not trying to project that. My point is more along the line of how well the year is starting to go for them by comparison to Mr Leahy's statement and many media articles which it has generated in regard to their initial guidance for 2006 sales.
Of note, with IC, that is a carry over order from last year. At the end of January Airbus carried about 200 pending orders which were announced last year though yet to be booked. IC was one of them as was Hamburg International, ANA and Air Europa, all of which have been announced, yet booked in December 2005, except IC. Orders such as that will distort their official forecast's and guidance.
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5): That's like saying that since Boeing has only sold 45 737s and no other jets so far, they will sell nothing but 737s this year.
There is no way I implied any such scenario as I was referring to total unit sales for all product lines.
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4): Whereare the widebody orders? I'd have expected one or two single digit ones by now.
ILFC Have ordered 2 A358 & 2 A359 whilst EI have ordered 2 A330s. They are out there. QR, only today, stated they may make a decision between the A340 & B777 in March.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 11): Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3):
Things that make you go Hmmmm? I think Airbus are being very conservative with their public forecast's this year.
Yes they are. It would be useful if they shut their mouth more often.
It will be interesting to see their Official Market Forecast when it is published. That should provide us with better guidance. That said, refer to my earlier statement about Pending orders which have carried over from last year. Once those are firmed up that will distort the distinction between what they forecast for sales this year and what they actually book with a bias to the upside of what's booked as oppossed to what's announced. As for staying quiet, you expect that of a Salesman?
Back on topic, Adam Air's order will be a mixture of firm orders and leases, similar to what Jagson Airways announced with their A321s. In this case, no breakdown is yet available.
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2146 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2600 times:
PanAm_DC10
Another great information coming from you.
I was just opening a new thread about A320 Adam Air , when i saw yours , but of course will do not it.
The information i got is a little bit different than yours.
There were reports it had gone to Boeing with the 737 however given the Lion Air and Garuda Orders which were announced last year they did have one factor which limited them. It's to do with their Credit criteria assessment for certain countries. I can't provide a link to substantiate it to provide greater detail though.
Quoting FCKC (Reply 14): Only 6 A320s will be leased first , and they plan to have a 30 A320s strong fleet over the next 5 years to come.
Thank you FCKC. This is the detail I mention in my thread above, I assume we just have to wait for the final breakdown as to how many will be leased and ordered direct. Dow Jones, Reuters & Bloomberg have all said 30 so I believe the initial leases will be interim until the firm deliveries start taking place.
On another note, Mr Leahy stated today that Airbus had sold 71 airplanes this year after this announcement. I count 19 booked in January and 46 announced this week for Adam Air, Go Air and Frontier. Add 2 for EI and that leaves the 4 for BA which should account for all the orders year to date that he has mentioned.
W3ndytj4n From Indonesia, joined Feb 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2324 times:
Wow, It is a good news from Adam Air, Adam Air is a budget carrier in Indonesia, they offer a very competitive price compare to any other carrier. Now, they are operating 737-200Adv, 737-300, 737-400, 737-500, how come now they choose to buy Airbus? It is a weird decision...
N757KW From United States, joined Sep 2003, 380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2217 times:
Adamair offers single class flights. At least on the 2 flights I was on.
Now, I might have a chance to fly on something other than B737s on my way to visit the wife in Palembang. OK, Lion Air/Wings Air do operate MD80s and MD90s.
It would be interesting to see if these orders of Adamair and Lion Air materialize. At least Batavia Air has a A319 in their color scheme.
N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 15): On another note, Mr Leahy stated today that Airbus had sold 71 airplanes this year after this announcement. I count 19 booked in January and 46 announced this week for Adam Air, Go Air and Frontier. Add 2 for EI and that leaves the 4 for BA which should account for all the orders year to date that he has mentioned.
Thats getting pretty loose with the term sold don't you think?
M27 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2043 times:
Going back through the posts, I noticed this-
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter): This combined with Frontier and GoAir has seen a successfull week for the A320 in sales. Total of 46 A320 series firm plus 10 Options and 8 Conversions.
and this-
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3): 46 firm have been announced this week add the 19 booked in January and IC as you mention and that's already 23% of their expected orders for the year assuming they retain 55% market share in terms of units sold.
Zeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 4800 posts, RR: 66 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2043 times:
Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 16): Wow, It is a good news from Adam Air, Adam Air is a budget carrier in Indonesia, they offer a very competitive price compare to any other carrier. Now, they are operating 737-200Adv, 737-300, 737-400, 737-500, how come now they choose to buy Airbus? It is a weird decision...
Not if you marry this up with reports that QF are buying into the airline, and QF is using the 320 as its low cost machine of choice.
Also with the 318, its got the lowest PCN/ACN of any aircraft in the 737/320 series that you can purchase new, which you could basically operate unrestricted into most indoneasian ports. The 733/4/5 takes a payload hit on some airports already due to low pavement strength.
Cathay Pacific wins Airline of the Year 2009 Award. Great service. Great people. Great fares.
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3085 posts, RR: 90 Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1981 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Quoting M27 (Reply 19): Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 15):
On another note, Mr Leahy stated today that Airbus had sold 71 airplanes this year after this announcement. I count 19 booked in January and 46 announced this week for Adam Air, Go Air and Frontier. Add 2 for EI and that leaves the 4 for BA which should account for all the orders year to date that he has mentioned.
Thats getting pretty loose with the term sold don't you think?
Mr Leahy quoted it and it seems likely that is how many they have sold. I'm just trying to put the numbers together. It's not I who is "getting pretty loose with the term sold", ok? I'm just trying to piece together what they've sold, on an announced basis, year to date.
I've no doubt that Frontier, BA* & EI will all book their order's firm, as will GoAir. So there are another 22 which at this stage are LoI until they appear on the Airbus site.
IIRC, there are no, new build, direct order, delivery slots for Adam Air this year, thus the leased farmes, they already operate 2 leased and the other 6 to be leased are for them to transition to the A320 before they can start taking delivery of the the 30 they intend to order. Did you look into what Adam Air actually announced? If you did you'd be surprised as to their intentions and they do intend to acquire 30 as per the ATW article and their announcement yesterday.
That quote just doesn't add up in relation to the quote of mine you respond to.
You'd have to change that number of 16 to take into account the 19 units booked in January, assuming you classify Adam Air as an intention only. Then you'd have 78 firm and 30 "intentions" because IC is now firm nor does that include the 14 A321s which Jagson Airways are ordering plus the 6 they will lease. Number changes again. 78 firm and 50 intentions. Which is why, until all paperwork is finalised, "intentions" are known as LoI or Letters of Intent, just like Primaris have an LoI for 787s
Again, I'm just trying to match the number with Mr Leahy's quote. I guess once the Order book is updated in March we'll have more of an idea of what's firmed and what is not. If there is any "fluff and blah blah" in his quote please source it and post it as I'd appreciate the clarification.
* BA could be the 1 x A320 & 3 x A321 booked "undisclosed" by Airbus on Dec 29 2005
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 60 Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1899 times:
how come now they choose to buy Airbus? It is a weird decision...
Well, in terms of cost per available seat, the 732s (which Adam's are non-RVSM compliant) are not that cheap anymore to operate with the current fuel prices (even operating in the RVSM altitudes), and the state of Adam's 732s are questionable, and the 733/4/5 too in recent weeks. The switch to Airbus could be because of significant discounts and/or very generous financial packages which could make the operating cost and initial ownership costs very very attractive.
Also with the 318, its got the lowest PCN/ACN of any aircraft in the 737/320 series that you can purchase new, which you could basically operate unrestricted into most indoneasian ports. The 733/4/5 takes a payload hit on some airports already due to low pavement strength.
If I remember correctly, the A318 and 735/6 ACN is still higher than the 732 (Which is still weight limited at some airports (eg: Pontianak/PNK/WIOO and Semarang/SRG/WARS and Sorong Mainland/SOQ/WAXX))... However, lower than the 733... So, some restrictions still apply... albeit not as punishing as the 733/A319...
We can expect that by the time the 732s are gone or an A319/736 makes a scene in Indonesia, those airports would have had a runway upgrade by then! Even if its ordered, I don't expect any A318s to fly here anytime soon though...
At least Batavia Air has a A319 in their color scheme.
I've seen 2 now.... PK-YVA and -YVC... though they're planned for Medan, Surabaya and Guangzhou... Dunno about Palembang at the moment... By the way, drop me a line next time if you pass through CGK...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3085 posts, RR: 90 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1882 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
There is actually an interesting twist to this order but we'll just have to wait for the information to appear in the public domain. It involves Adam Airs intention to operate up to 60 frames. All we've heard of is 30 thus far.
Atnight From Ecuador, joined Dec 2005, 520 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1822 times:
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24): There is actually an interesting twist to this order but we'll just have to wait for the information to appear in the public domain. It involves Adam Airs intention to operate up to 60 frames. All we've heard of is 30 thus far.
Regards, PanAm_DC10
As always, you're one of the few a.netters who have facts and figures well prepared and are careful of posting information without backup.. You're my first Respected user and I hope you keep your excellent posts for years to come, as they are excellent and mature posts!!! Thanks for all the info you share with us PanAm_DC10!
26 WINGS: Well said. I second that. Regards, Wings
27 BestWestern: At risk of causing an ego explosion - Can I third that also. Can I guess... Which East Asian market has a weak national carrier with a poor long haul
28 Flying-Tiger: Okay, that's my understanding by now: Adam Air has signed its intention to take 30 A320s, both leased and purchased. The first 6 will definately be le
29 M27: I have no problem with what you are trying to do! In fact I think its a good thing. My problem is with the use of the term sold and firm. You do say
30 Mandala499: Reading what Flying-Tigers wrote, this Adam Air deal sounds like the Batavia Air deal... which is initially 2 - 3 leased new A319s (2 are here... and
31 Astuteman: Consider it "fourthed" also. A pleasure to read you, as always, PanAmDC10 A
32 A342: The order is official now. See the Airbus website: http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...eases_items/06_02_23_adam_air.html
33 PanAm_DC10: M27 I'll provide you with a response even though it does appear that your last post implies that a Moderator has deleted some post's. Which were obvio
34 Mandala499: PanAmDC10, On that note I'll leave it, after all, this is good news for the local enthusiast's such as w3ndy, Mandala499 & HB-IWC who've I've no doubt
35 A388: That livery was designed by Lila Design, aka AirOrange. Congratulations AirOrange Roger
36 PanAm_DC10: You're welcome Mandala499 That is understandable, however, it'll be 60 commitments and I refer you to this quote. My problem is this. I have informat
37 Simpilicity: QF is in talks with Adam Air re possible purchase of part of. Early days though.
38 Mandala499: and Tiger Airways is also in talks according to local news... But Adam needs to have a relook at their maintenance and dispatch practices/policies...
39 PanAm_DC10: Yes, it is puzzling Mandala499 though only if one has not worked on the Financing of the deal, it is less so to me, thus my previous statements, abou
40 Mandala499: PanAm_DC10, OK... got the message... About the smoking hole in the ground... Well, the lenders better get good protection Sure sell them the planes...
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