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LH Plans More A380s, Considers The 747-8  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4138 posts, RR: 90
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11272 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Lufthansa will place an add on order for more A380's according to their CEO and he also comments on the 747-8

Fair use excerpt

By Vicki Kwong and Susanna Ray
Feb. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-largest airline, plans to buy more Airbus SAS A380 planes to replace or add to its fleet of long-range aircraft, Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said.

``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

``We have 15 firm orders for the A380 and five options, and anything above and beyond that for our long-range fleet hasn't yet been decided,'' said Michael Goentgens, a Lufthansa spokesman in Frankfurt.


On the 747

Mayrhuber said ``options are growing'' if the airline wants to add to its fleet of Boeing 747s. ``We're looking at this airplane,'' Mayrhuber said. ``We have no firm assessment.'' Lufthansa operates 29 Boeing 747-400s, according to it's website.

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11267 times:

Well that Lufthansa is considering the 748 is no suprise to me. They wanted this aircraft years ago and already said it.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11089 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We have no firm assessment.''

I hope they will have one soon - they always said they are interest but nothing firm yet. Let�s hope they will decide soon that they will buy it.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineNijltje From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11047 times:

It's a good sign if a company wants to place an add on order for a plane not even in commercial use. To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6885 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11016 times:

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 3):
To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?

They've re-ordered A340-600s too and have a fleet of A330s so it seems they are well pleased with Airbus widebodies. And that's not to mention the biggest fleet anywhere of A343s. They obviously love the 747 too but, yes, they seem to have confidence in Airbus.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 4138 posts, RR: 90
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11016 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 3):
It's a good sign if a company wants to place an add on order for a plane not even in commercial use. To me LH has a lot confidence in the A380, no?

Exactly. That is why I posted the thread. Unfortunately I would be in breach of Copyright if I posted more on the article. Once the story has been "on the wire" for a certain period of time a search via the link I provide will give the full interview and Mr Mayrhuber's comments on the A380 are very positive in relation to their view on the delays the program has had. I feel they will exercise their options sooner rather than later after reading them.

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10975 times:

I personally hope LH is going to order additional A388´s , probably some A388F´s and a huge order for the A350 this year.

The replacement of the B744 could be a little downgrade in capacity with the order of B777-300ER´s.Probably with some facilities in the lower deck as incorporated in the A346 to get add floor space in the main deck.This could result in a 370 to 380 seat config in 3-class layout.

So they would have a (long awaited) Boeing order and would replace the B744 with a very capable airplane.

In summary they would extend their modern A388 and A330/340-fleet with the most logical choice and add. would have the B777-300ER as the best replacement for the B744.

Johnny  Smile


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10851 times:

If there is a new Boeing in LHs future, its the 747-8.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10648 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 7):
If there is a new Boeing in LHs future, its the 747-8.

I agree - the question that LH (and many other airlines) is considering is whether is needs an aircraft to slot inbetween the A346 and the A388.....and do the economics of maintaining another type in the fleet work out. LH currently has 29 744s in its fleet - with 15 A380s on order (and followup orders to come).....we are not talking about a huge number of 744s left over that will need replacement, and some 744 routes will also be flown by A346s possibly with increased frequency. On the other hand, there is expansion to consider, with LH needing all the capacity it can get at FRA and continued growth at Munich, and in the coming years LH will look to begin replacement of its A343 fleet (my prediciton is that the A343s will be very slowly phased out over time). LH could move to an A333/A346/747-8/A380 long haul fleet.

My guess is that we will see a LH order for the 747-8 in the future.....say for about 15 pax aircraft and additionally some cargo aircraft. Only a guess.


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10563 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
My guess is that we will see a LH order for the 747-8 in the future.....say for about 15 pax aircraft and additionally some cargo aircraft. Only a guess.

Nice assessment of the situation but I don't think they will opt for Cargo 748s.

Not gonna happen IMO.

Regds
jush



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10490 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out... arrow 



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10383 times:

Quoting Jush (Reply 9):
Nice assessment of the situation but I don't think they will opt for Cargo 748s

IMO, LH will not order pax748s, I can see LH having around 25 A380s and 5 B748Fs to replace some of the MD-11s. For some reason I cannot see any airline ordering pax A380 and B748s, the operational cost of running a moderate fleet of the 2 largest commercial aircraft would be staggering.

On a side note, I flew YYZ-FRA last year on a LH B744(ABVL), most uncomfortable cabin I have ever been flown trans-atlantic in. The seat killed my back, pitch was way less than AC or BA, food was indigestible and the FA's turned of the airshow so I was sitting in a dark 744 cabin staring at the wall for 3 hrs, horrible!! On the other hand, FRA-BUD on LH A321 was on of the best short-haul flights ever!!

Krisyyz


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10283 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...  

Plain wrong. LH is very sensitive when it comes to the point of becoming dependent on one manufacturer. Surely it will stay an airline mainly flying Busses, but I´m sure there´ll be new Boeings in LHs fleet - when the product and price makes sense. The 747-8 as pax-aircraft and as freighter might as there is no alternative if you need exactly that size, as well as possibly the 787, and maybe the 772LRF in the distant future when the MD-11Fs get old by LH standards around 2015, or they want to expand with a similar-sized aircraft. 777 pax I don´t see at all. The big Airbus widebody fleet of same size and the huge maintenance base for them makes that almost unthinkable.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10205 times:

What engines for LH´s A388?

Thx

Micke//SE  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6885 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10205 times:

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 13):
What engines for LH´s A388?

RR


User currently offlinePlaneDane From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
``We definitely will grow the A380 fleet in the long term,'' he said, without giving a time frame.

To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...

Agreed. LH will be all Airbus before too long.

I don't really know why any Boeing aircraft are even being mentioned anymore other than to extract better pricing from Airbus. Airbus must surely know this as well.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

The 747-8 is too little too late for LH. They wanted it before the A380 came along but now they have the A380. And you can forget about the freighter version too. Mr. Mayrhuber has made it clear recently that LH Cargo would rather convert used aircraft rather than buy new ones.

User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10003 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 10):
To what level...20-25 A380s? Sounds to me like they would rather dump their remaining 744s and ignore the 747-8.

Like I said before, LH actually wants to move to an all-Airbus fleet. Even the remaining 737s are on the way out...

Lufthansa will not be all Airbus. The 737's are old makes (300/500's). They already have lots of Airbus narrowbodies so it only makes sense to keep them. Lufthansa still flies plenty of 747's and I believe they will fly what will make them the most money. The political pressure on Lufthansa by Airbus and the EU to me does not work as well compared other nations. Lufthansa is a business and will make their decision based on the proper aircraft.


What I don't understand is why Boeing didn't make a 747 the same size as the 744 but with new and improved engines and wings while also making the 748.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9913 times:

No mention of the 787 for LH? Do the A330's and A32X's fill their European needs or could there be a need for 787-3's??? Just a question. I don't think the 777 has a place at LH. If they are pleased with teh A346's operation (and they do seem to be pleased) then there is no need for the 777-3ER. The 747-8 Pax and Cargo seem to make some sense- but that depends on LH forcasts for the future. It seems to me thast with the A350, LH will not have any need for for Boeing widebodies. 747 routes get upgraded to A380, or downgraded to 2x widebodies i.e A350/ A340 and with a combination of A350/ A340 surely they can MATCH the 747's capacity. Honestly, I think Lh will become an all Airbus customer (even if they don't intend it, simply because Airbus a/c seem to fill ALL their needs. Boeing may have a chance in the second wave of competition in about 10 years with new S/H and some L/H. And then the EU/ Airbus pressure may be much less since Airbus seems to be outsourcing a lot more- China, Dubai, Russia, India.

Sorry for the long-winded 'speech' but that's my TT$0.01 (=£0.001)

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9775 times:

Good luck to both Airbus and Boeing for future orders, I realy hope they go for additional A380's and 747-8's!  Smile

Imagine the A380, 747-8 and A346 in one fleet, awesome! The only thing their missing is the 77W  Wink  cloudnine 

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA (whether or not they operate the WhaleJet). If LH were not taking full advantage of the WhaleJet, the opponents of the new runway could argue that it is not needed, that use of (or increased use of) the WhaleJet would obviate the need for a new runway. By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway. Until the new runway is approved, LH absolutely must say they will buy more WhaleJets -- even if it were transparently obvious that LH don't need any more.

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9659 times:

If they do get 748s I hope they will fit Y class with PTVs.

Saying that, I hope they will do this on the 380s as well.



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineLp0815 From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9601 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway.

Why does this depend solely on buying the A 380?
Wouldn't it be enough for LH to say: we increase our fleet with abc type of aircraft?
That and the predicted growth of LH traffic and traffic in general ex/to FRA should be sufficient as argument, shouldn't it?



Time waits for nobody
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17017 posts, RR: 67
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9548 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20):
This forum seems to always overlook one reason why LH must operate and express interest in buying more WhaleJets. LH very much needs a third runway at FRA (whether or not they operate the WhaleJet). If LH were not taking full advantage of the WhaleJet, the opponents of the new runway could argue that it is not needed, that use of (or increased use of) the WhaleJet would obviate the need for a new runway. By buying, operating, and saying they intend to buy more WhaleJets, LH eliminate part of their opponents' case against the new runway. Until the new runway is approved, LH absolutely must say they will buy more WhaleJets -- even if it were transparently obvious that LH don't need any more.

I am shocked that politics would enter into it! Shocked I tell you!!! Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9472 times:

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 22):

Why does this depend solely on buying the A 380?
Wouldn't it be enough for LH to say: we increase our fleet with abc type of aircraft?
That and the predicted growth of LH traffic and traffic in general ex/to FRA should be sufficient as argument, shouldn't it?

The runway opponents will -- if given the opportunity -- present the argument that growth in the number of passengers can be accomodated either by building a new runway or by operating larger aircraft that accomodate more passengers per flight. LH must be able to answer that by saying "We already operate the largest airliner available and we intend to buy more of them. Despite that, we still need the new runway."

If, hypothetically, Airbus were ever to offer a stretched WhaleJet (before FRA's third runway is approved), LH would be forced to pursue it whether they had a place for it in their fleet or not.


25 PanHAM : That is no argument against the runway opponents. "The A380 needs more feeder flights to fill" is what they say in return. The 4th runway at FRA is ne
26 A319XFW : LH has now got 3 hubs - FRA, MUC and ZRH (with Swiss). Does anyone think that they will expand the A380 from FRA to the other 2 hubs? But they did say
27 Lightsaber : Interesting note. That new runway is direly needed... as well as new runways or runway reconfigurations at a few dozen other airports! (LHR, NRT, and
28 Wdleiser : If LH buys the 777 it will be for Lufthansa Cargo. I believe they are strongly interested in the 777LRF.
29 Post contains links Leskova : When did he say that? One of the reasons LH was angry with Boeing when they shut down the MD11 line was that they were actually forced to buy used pl
30 Bolu340 : Hi to everybody!! Watch LH ordering this year more A340-500/600 as well as B787 and 747-8. LH needs an a/c to replace A306 plus they need extra capaci
31 Airbazar : A third Runway at FRA is a Fraport issue not a Lufthansa issue. Buying more A380's is a LH issue not a Fraport issue. They are not related. I don't t
32 Zvezda : You think LH are neutral on the question of a new runway at FRA? Or you think that the bureaucrats will not take into account LH's operations in deci
33 PM : Er, I bet they will be!
34 Post contains links BoomBoom : Why not just post a link to the article? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...100&sid=aap47tbn_nKo&refer=germany[Edited 2006-02-23 22:15:18]
35 Post contains images A350 : And I always thought LH has ten options for the A380 A350
36 Lp0815 : Erm, last time I counted FRA already had three runways...
37 PADSpot : LH definitely need something for new respectively thin&long routes ... i.e. A350 or B787 Something wrong does not become true when it's repeated all
38 PanAm_DC10 : If you had quoted my full sentence you would realise that the article is embargoed for Bloomberg Subscribers only for a period of time. 12 hours late
39 Carpethead : Although LH Technik is a separate company, they are huge maintenance group that as long the number of aircraft at LH is large enough, they could order
40 LTU932 : I don't think so. As I've said many times, LH will buy whatever will fit into their business model and I believe they said they will not become an op
41 Cslusarc : I have to be honest with you all. I don't believe that LH would need any 747-8Is in its fleet. I doubt that it would be advantageous for LH to dump it
42 Columba : Since LH is one airline that always got a very good price for its used aircraft maybe they will replace their A300s sooner as we think as long as the
43 Leskova : Hmm... that's an interesting angle, I hadn't thought of that; but I doubt it has anything to do with other carriers placing follow on orders - after
44 LTU932 : It seems a bit unlikely now because the delivery slots of the 787 are pretty much booked. But if Boeing is willing to offer them good delivery slots
45 Post contains links and images Leskova : I think the ownership is still a 50/50 partnership between LH on one side and KarstadtQuelle on the other, with KarstadtQuelle usually focussing on t
46 PanHAM : It has been mentioned already but the new one will be the 4th runway in FRA, 2 are for take off and landing, one is for take offs only and the new on
47 Post contains images LTU932 : " target=_blank>http://www5.condor.com/tcf-de/geschi...orker Thanks for the link and information, Frank! Interesting indeed. I've heard lots of storie
48 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : It did, don't forget I warned you my German was rather poor I agree, we'll see sometime in the future. I thank you Leskova for your considered respon
49 Pavlin : A380 sure, but no more 747s
50 ZK-NBT : So why is that? I personally think that the 747-8 could be a vital part of LH's future aswell as growth plans. They might order more A380's so say th
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