Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15351 times:
It is still not the 1st of April and this is (unfortunately) no joke.
The INAC (something similar to the FAA in the US), restricted the capacity from US airlines flying to Venezuela starting 1st March (!!).
DL flights to ATL were cancelled completely
CO flights to EWR and IAH were cancelled completely and
AA flights to JF, DFW, SJU, and MIA were reduced a 70%
Delta already cancelled their daily ATL service in the GDS. CO and AA flights are still available.
There was no reason given by the INAC so far but there is a pres conference scheduled for today.
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15299 times:
Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1): Venezuela to close DL and CO ticket counters?
Don't be too fast. I think there is still hope because there seems to be a meeting between the INAC and the airlines. And they are all still selling seats.
Just AA reduced their flights these days to 3xdaily to CCS but is adding a fourth one with A300 again on March 1st.
There are rumours that this is due to quality reasons .
Maybe it's just Aeropostal that is experiencing problems with their traffic rights application for ATL, MCO and PMV-MIA .....I don't know.
BTW: Correction to my previous post: DL has NOT cancelled their flight in the GDS (yet).
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15260 times:
Quoting Chiguire (Reply 2): Maybe it's just Aeropostal that is experiencing problems with their traffic rights application for ATL, MCO and PMV-MIA .....
FYI, Aeropostal already has MIA-PMV traffic rights. Nothing to get.
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15237 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4): FYI, Aeropostal already has MIA-PMV traffic rights. Nothing to get.
Yes, sorry. I know about that route. But the CCS-AUA-MCO and CCS-AUA-ATL ?
Do you know anything about the status on these routes ?
But nevertheless, I don't think that this is the reason. After all there were no problems (yet) for Venezuelan airlines to get the US rights. It was the venezuelan government which refused AA to fly SJU-PMV.....
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14984 times:
So there now is a press release on the INAC homepage saying:
Venezuela has improved its facilities and security measures, this has been autited by OACI.
Venezuela is above average if it comes to security. All this has been aknowledged by OACI.
FAA does not accept this and keeps Venezuela in Cat II.
So the decission was to bring back the capacity operated by US carriers to about the same from venezuelan side.
If you ready this, you are about to understad the measures.
Oh, and about those political issues:
I will not discuss this here. Bush is wrong in many points, I agree with TGV 100% !!
BUT - there IS a difference to Chavez !
Lamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 23 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14984 times:
Quoting Chiguire (Reply 4): It was the venezuelan government
and there we have the reason for all this: political games, as I see it.
Pinpricks, provocations, showing off, whatever you want to call it.
Chavez wants to show the US what he's capable of and win points with his people: "Look how I have Bush in a deadly grip!"
It will probably come to nothing but this show of force, but we'll follow the developments closely of course.
BA747 From Venezuela, joined Sep 2005, 104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14609 times:
I´m in shock. This news sucks. I don´t know what the hell is going on in this country or in the US. How in the world from one night to the following day they decide to do this? I´m sure this have to do with political problems between Venezuela and the US. If according to the Venezuelan government, the FAA decided to restrict flights to the US 10 years ago, Now is when they are going to pay them back by cancelling the only 3 US carriers that keep us connected with the US? Come on!!!!!!!!
Bongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1858 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14399 times:
I´m so sorry for Venezuelans fans and in general everybody. I only can say that this gives more passengers to Avianca and increases the feasibility of BOG as a big hub.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14325 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 23): I find it very interesting how the large American oil companies who had record profits could not match Venezuelan’s Citgo program to offer ‘oil’ aid to the elderly and the poor in the United states.
This is the best example how his politics work. Especially in the country itself.
Don't be blind !! There are other things than giving oil to poor ! Sure, they will vote for you next time just because of this.
But, come on, I expect something more from a president/government than just donating money and oil to the poor !
And back to the topic:
Quoting Juventus (Reply 14): What would be the best way for Venezuelans living in the US to visit their home?
There are still direct flights by Santa Barbara, Aeropostal and American between the countries. Air Canada has a daily service.
I don't expect Venezuela to be isolated as Cuba.
But really: I am afraid - if this happens it will happen from US side. Not from Venezuelan side !
Avianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5857 posts, RR: 40 Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14282 times:
Quoting Bongo (Reply 25): I´m so sorry for Venezuelans fans and in general everybody. I only can say that this gives more passengers to Avianca and increases the feasibility of BOG as a big hub.
totally agree, so its time that Avianca increases the flights again....
767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14261 times:
I think we should take a reprisal and kick Aeropostal and possibly Santa Barbara out of the U.S.
[Edited 2006-02-24 15:28:40]
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14134 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 28): totally agree, so its time that Avianca increases the flights again....
Relax Mr. Avianca ! 4x daily AV flights are enough ! I would like to see S3 to fly that route first, then V0 pull out and then VH increase to 4.
Then AV can increase....
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 4726 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14038 times:
On the Cat II business, I can understand another government taking umbrage. The FAA is not saying Venezuelan maintenance practices and procedures are faulty, it is saying that the Venezuelan government is unable or unwilling to enforce its own aviation safety laws and regulations, which is quite a slap in the face.
Panama kept their heads down and fixed the problem; Argentina grumbled publicly but ultimately fixed things; with luck, Venezuela is just grumbling a little louder.
Dc10heaven From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13977 times:
Here is an additional article from Reuters:
UPDATE 1-Venezuela says limits U.S. airline flights
Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:24 AM ET
CARACAS, Venezuela, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Venezuela is limiting flights by U.S. carriers Delta Air Lines (DALRQ.PK: Quote, Profile, Research), Continental Airlines (CAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and AMR Corp.'s (AMR.N: Quote, Profile, Research) American Airlines after U.S. authorities failed to comply with aviation accords, officials and an industry group said on Friday.
The measure to reduce flights from U.S. airlines comes just weeks after Washington and Caracas expelled diplomats in an escalation of already tense relations between United States and the world's No. 5 oil exporter.
Venezuela's INAC aviation authority said in a statement the frequency of passenger and cargo flights would be reduced for some U.S. carriers from March 1, based "on the principles of equality, reciprocity and fair opportunities."
INAC did not name the airlines, but Roberto Pulido, president of the local Venezuelan airline association, said the measure would cancel some flight frequencies of Delta, American and Continental.
"The INAC has exhausted all conciliatory avenues with the U.S. aviation authorities... and has not been able to reestablish rights the bilateral accord gives to Venezuelan air carriers," the statement said.
Pulido said U.S. airline representatives were to hold a meeting with Venezuelan authorities later on Friday to discuss the measure and its impact on their flights. (Additional reporting by Magdalena Morales
CayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13977 times:
Although this is bad for passengers and the traveliong public in the US, Vzla and other countries and overall is a very unfortunate development---if you are AC you have to wonder if it is not helpful to them with their service YYZ to CCS going daily shorlty. Maybe it will even result in an equipment change or upguage.
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13956 times:
Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 11): Chavez wants to show the US what he's capable of and win points with his people: "Look how I have Bush in a deadly grip!"
The funny thing is that if this does come to fruition it will be Venezuelans who are employed by these US carriers who will be negatively affected. Guess old Hugo did'nt bother to think of that.
CayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13131 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 48): And the sad news is that the only people that will benefit from the move to cancell air service is AV and CM, who will now make a killing on their Caracas flights connecting to Miami.
Well--I think AC will beneifit too---if pax have to connect to CCS I am sure more would prefer to do so via YYZ than BOG.
Chiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2003 posts, RR: 19 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12727 times:
Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 60): will the moderator please close down this thread as it has digressed into something that is not about airliners. The first statement right above this box clearly says "Civil Aviation related posts only" Go somewhere else and have the political diatribe please.
I was expecting that.
But civil aviation is part of politics. And it is simply difficult to keep politics out of a discussion about such topics.
I hope that this topics stays here at least until we can clear up the open questions still pendig.
What happens to the passengers booked ß What happens to pending traffic rights, how will airlines react ? Is there still a chance. These are "civil aviation" and I hope we can talk about them in this thread here without opening a new one where those political discussions come up again.
To the topic: Why are AA, CO and DL still selling seats in the GDS ? Do they know more. It looks like they still have some hope ?
Dude have you even bothered to read this thread? I think it is pretty obvious that the decision is strictly a political matter. So you cannot keep politics out of this thread.
Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 60): will the moderator please close down this thread as it has digressed into something that is not about airliners. The first statement right above this box clearly says "Civil Aviation related posts only" Go somewhere else and have the political diatribe please.
Will the ignorant posters realize that this Civil Aviation related decision was based purely on politics so if people want to discuss this cancellation of flights to Venezuela, poltics can't be left out of the discussion.
I really hope that moderators realize that politics can't be avoided in this topic because Civil Aviation was affected by a purely political decision. If they go and close down this thread, no problem. A new one will start right away and politics will again be part of that thread.
What really needs to be deleted are Iraq/CIA related comments that certainly add nothing of value to this discussion.
Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
Viasa we miss you!. Good times will return after Chavez is gone!
Mikester540 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12587 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 63):
So is this a political matter or does it have to do with Venezuela restricting the number of US airlines and particular landing slots available to these airlines?
Well, Bmacleod, It's obvious that this IS a political matter! They are not doing this because of something in aviation, but in the name of "getting back at the USA."
We need men who can dream of things that never were. -John F. Kennedy
Gritzngravee From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12544 times:
I don't know about the rest of you but if there are major security concerns along with logistical quagmires due to heavy volumes of air traffic something has to be done to ensure the safety of the passengers. Americans feel like every place in the world should be like America, I'm sure the INAC doesn't have millions of dollars in their budget like the FAA nor do they see the amount of traffic that the USA has domestically!!!! I can just see it now, a major catastrophe at an Venezulan airport and then everyone would blame the INAC for not reforming their traffic and security policies. Of course all airlines are in business to make profits on their routes. And why is it that when someone acts unilateral towards our government they're disrespectful and when we do it, it is ok? And for those of you bashing President Bush, remember he was re-elected and a lot of you took the bait about terrorism and voted for him so don't complain!!!!!
25 Gritzngravee: Politicians rule CIVILIZATIONS so the responses are valid. I guess you need to tell the EU countries to sale all of their Airbus stock also!!!!!
26 MaverickM11: Awesome. As if the FUBAR bridge to the airport wasn't enough. Give the Venezuelan or Argentinian government some pocket lint and they'll build themse
27 Chiguire: The thing that surprises me most is, that after 48 hours after this decission was made public and communicated to the afected airlines, they are still
28 LX23: This is one of the few posts that is actually worth a couple of words.. AR385, you've hit the right spot. Essentially, if ICAO says Venezuela meets a
29 Tope98: Yeah right im an aristocrat... u sounded just like Chavez. If u dont like me is because you are rich and of course a bad person and you deserve hell.
30 Legion242: I personally think the political discourse, where it applies to SA politics, quite fascinating. I, as an average American, had no idea the severity of
31 Jetdeltamsy: One thinking man's sociopath is another thinking man's hero. It's too bad that airline routes are almost always the first thing to go when two countr
32 PlanesNTrains: There is a big difference between discussing the political side of Venezuela's move, as AA1818 did, and getting into another political bashfest. I ho
33 LTBEWR: I would suspect that Mr. Chavez is having this done to put the squezze for greater access for Venezula based airlines (as previously noted) and to red
34 Gritzngravee: AGAIN if it is a safety issue there is nothing wrong with what they're doing. Each side stands to loose out no one will gain anything from this except
35 Junction: Speaking of Citgo, now that their U.S. headquarters is in Houston, is there much travel by Citgo employees between CCS and IAH? Seems like VE governm
36 Lamedianaranja: If they have to pull out they might cite 'government orders' as a situation beyond their control and it will be difficult to get back money back for
37 Avianca: still all to CCS, and what I heard still very good booked. cargo and pax wise. do not agree BOG is much more logical than YYZ, flying 3 hours more to
38 777jaah: Any other great political ideas for this thread?? This is why (If Luis is 100% right, which I pressume he is) the FAA is keeping VZLA in Cat II. Actu
39 ScottB: What seems to be lost in all the political grandstanding is the fact that Venezuela has been in Category 2 since 1997 or earlier (source: http://www.z
40 CayMan: I never ever suggested MIA pax would even consider transiting through YYZ. Why would you assume that I did? MIA is not even in question as the flight
41 RiddlePilot215: You mean POLITICAL quality? We wouldn't be having this problem if Chavez and Bush got along. /End story It can't possibly be an airline quality probl
42 Cedars747: From now on ,only Bush Airways and Chavez Airlines will have the rights to operate flights between Venezuela and USA!!!
43 Chiguire: How can you post something about the social and political situation in a country if you don't even know how to spell is correctly ?! Just another pre
44 Chiguire: If we can agree on that - great. Let's pray for it ! You are talking about the Aeropostal from about 5 years ago on domestic services, do you ? Ask s
45 Cedars747: You can add some Chavez Airlines flights to EZE,GRU and La Paz!!! Alex!!!
46 Chiguire: If it wouldn't be that serious we could laugh about it. Because in that list of destinations we could also find Damascus, Tehran and all other countr
47 Avianca: oh yes including the 3 x weekly flights to KUL........
48 Chiguire: Yup, a really important destinations nowadays. Another important gateway to the US. Thank you ! You are so right.
49 Cedars747: There once was a routemap from PanAm where they showed Beirut and Tehran as main destinations,"how world has changed"!!! Alex!!!
50 WesternA318: *SIGH* Now it'll be all that more difficult for me and my fiancee to get to her home country. Now whens the next Viasa DC-10 leaving??
51 Cedars747: And now Fedex is on the list,this is really sad for the Venezuelan aviation y el pueblo hermano de Venezuela Alex!!!
52 AndesSMF: Congratulations on a great description on the situation. Couldnt have said it better. BTW, the tickets from California to CUN seem awfully cheap, how
53 Westindian425: This would also be a good opportunity for BW, but I hear they're pulling out of CCS as well. So far I've learned a lot about the economy in Venezuela
54 Poitin: I still have not seen any office pool on the coup d'état against Chavez. Surely Fed Ex will organize one. IF not, does he had to band UPS and DHL as
55 Trintocan: This is a shocking decision but given the political "cold war" between Venezuela and the USA this is unsurprising. Venezuela has indeed been in Catego
56 Yanqui67: Chiguire, Bienvenido amis lista de usuarios respetados. I think I did that right, anyway welcome to my respected users list.
57 AA1818: TrinToCan- AC shudn't be affected as some of their YYZ-POS routings involve CCS- my cousins who flew in at Christmas actually flew into Caracas, staye
58 FUMANCHEWD: So let me get this straight. No published ILS. Intermittent VORs. I suppose that they have a crap load of uneffective ADF approaches that would put y
59 Chiguire: ?? But I think this is exactly the point. If Venezuela is not safe for aviation, why does that necessarily mean that airlines from this country are n
60 A388: (Venezuelan) people can still fly between the U.S. and Venezuela via CUR. It's not that big of a problem to transfer here as CUR is very close to CCS.
61 Civilav: Chigüire, I am very glad to see your last statements. In your opening words for this thread you claim you were still in a state of shock... yet, as I
62 Chiguire: Although there are more than 60 posts deleted from this thread, I would like to continue to post the newest developments in this matter here. The prev
63 Adriaticus: Don't forget MX and CM!! This is the reason why the INAC just officially took back the notification to FedEx, saying it had been "a mistake" in the f
64 A388: Don't forget CUR and all airlines flying to/from CUR. U.S. and Venezuelan citizens can fly between the U.S. and Venezuela by transferring in CUR, eas
65 Chiguire: Thanks for that great news. However, INAC now named the other that might be affected: UPS, Geminis Air Cargo, Tradewinds, Atlas Air, Amerijet, Arrow
66 Chiguire: Yes, you are right. Cura�ao might have the best geographical location but it has the disadvantage that you will need to change the airline. With
67 A388: You are right Chiguire, I was just suggesting here Interesting to hear about LAN flying from CCS to MIA, I didn't know this. How does this whole issue
68 Adriaticus: Hey buddy, with all due respect... Knock it down... It was this kind of "political" comments which made the original thread by my friend Luisde8cd be
69 Avianca: at least, because sometimes it is very hard to get space on the B727 flights for cargo.... oh no, a question there are some airlines for example Flor
70 Abrelosojos: This thread is getting way too political. I support INAC. I can think of many countries in South America/and many more around the world that deserves
71 Atmx2000: What else would you expect? The problem is if you obsess about "inequity" you often end up going in a direction that reduces the absolute level of li
72 Lamedianaranja: The new deadline is March 30, to give both parties some time to cool down and talk things over, as Chiguire states. But is it true that Venezuela can
73 777jaah: On friday MSNBC talked about it for a few minutes, didn't said much different of what has already been said here. Good luck.
74 Slider: Good point- and they've prospered as a result. Copa for example. Veenzuela should realize that this is a short-sighted approach. If anything, they ou
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