Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4116 times:
Starting 26 March 2006 IB will increase MAD-GRU flights from daily to 10 weekly flights A340-300/A340-600. The 3 additional frequencies will operate on Wed, Sat and Sun.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3898 times:
Quoting Juventus (Reply 2): Great news for the Brazilian passengers, not so great for Varig.
Not only Varig, but TAM should worry as well.
In general, it is great news to see the expansion, although largely centred in GRU. It is high time for the Brazilian Government to carry out a massive expansion in GRU. The subway link GRU-downtown is also long overdue.
It seems indeed that LH is rowing against the flow, while all major airlines are upgrading GRU LH, decided to cut one of its two daily flights. I'm sure LH will pay a very high price for this decision.
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3866 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3): It seems indeed that LH is rowing against the flow, while all major airlines are upgrading GRU LH
Very true!!
Despite IB operates with high loads in flights to GRU and GIG, wouldn't it have anything to do with British Airways' impossibility in increasing their frequencies?
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3715 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5): Infraero does not allow Air Madrid to fly to GIG and now allows IB to fly more to GRU... seems that the government does not like Rio very much.
Felipe, como ta?
Spanish carriers were flying regularly to Brazil (GIG), but registered as charter and there were no more frequencies in the bilateral — which, I believe, has just been reviewed.
Brazilian government cannot refuse any airline request for flights if the it satisfies the air Treaty's criteria. This is an agreement between two countries and Brazil would be then disregarding it (ilegally) just by saying that the airline is not eligible for some reason out of such agreement, i.e. "we don't like Rio that much".
By the way, I think INFRAERO doesn't hold any authority to allow / refuse flights requests.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3686 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3): It seems indeed that LH is rowing against the flow, while all major airlines are upgrading GRU LH, decided to cut one of its two daily flights. I'm sure LH will pay a very high price for this decision.
They don't need it anymore since TAP's entry into Star. Germans are now the largest group of European passengers on TP's flights to Brazil, after the Portuguese.
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3673 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7): They don't need it anymore since TAP's entry into Star. Germans are now the largest group of European passengers on TP's flights to Brazil, after the Portuguese.
Ach Gott!
"Greeeat" strategy of LH, no?
Shame on them! Some pax migrate to TAP but the other majority to AF/KL, IB and BA!
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3094 posts, RR: 59 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3630 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7): They don't need it anymore since TAP's entry into Star. Germans are now the largest group of European passengers on TP's flights to Brazil, after the Portuguese.
Really --- Latin America is not just only Brazil. LH does not have a clue of what to do with Latin America. TAP's presence in Brazil has always been strong, but that's just because of the market (and ties) that there's between Portugal and Brazil. Really, take a look at it, LH lost all of its business travelers to Air France because it axed the FRA-EZE-SCL to make it FRA-GRU-EZE/SCL. They really don't have a clue of what to do. And now, this is a lost market for them. Air France has won every inch of their business flyers. Lufthansa is the only one axing operations at GRU - but this is because of the poor performance of its routes. Adding the 2nd GRU daily, may have been good for Brazil, but it certainly was devastating for their Chilean and Argentine operations. Now, they are pulling out of SCL and codesharing with LX/SR on that leg.
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5): Infraero does not allow Air Madrid to fly to GIG and now allows IB to fly more to GRU... seems that the government does not like Rio very much.
Hola Felipe!
Are you sure this deal is with GIG and not with Air Madrid? Remember they have rejected Air Madrid from increasing more frequencies into Brazil.
I've heard this rumor over the last couple of days. . . is it true that the Federal Government is TRULY considering in giving out 8th freedom rights to NON Brazilian companies? I mean, that's outrageous, and confirms the clear anti-RG position this administration has.
I'm appalled by it.
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
yay, 1200th post!
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11230 posts, RR: 61 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3612 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 6): Felipe, como ta?
Spanish carriers were flying regularly to Brazil (GIG), but registered as charter and there were no more frequencies in the bilateral — which, I believe, has just been reviewed.
Ola Brasuca, estou bem e em Miami tirando uns dias pra "refill my batteries"
Brasuca, the question is that, Air Madrid can fly to GIG, but without rights for Buenos Aires and/or Santiago, buttttttttt ... if Air Madrid flies to FOR, the government can "grant" rights for EZE and SCL. Also Infraero creates a lot of problems for new airlines (info from an employee of Infraero) to start ops at Rio/São Paulo nowadays.
Our government is trying to drive all new flights out of Rio/São Paulo !
Do you know that RG receive some incentives to fly GIG-GRU-IGU-ASU instead of GRU-ASU ? And what to say about GRU-CWB-VVI instead of GRU-VVI ? Yes, they will change both routes effective march 06!
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 9): Are you sure this deal is with GIG and not with Air Madrid? Remember they have rejected Air Madrid from increasing more frequencies into Brazil.
Hi Gaston !
I'm sure, they confirm this in an interview this week at O GLOBO newspaper (Rio). They tried to fly again to Rio but if they decide in favor of GIG, no Freedom rights for EZE or SCL will be granted to them.
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 9): I've heard this rumor over the last couple of days. . . is it true that the Federal Government is TRULY considering in giving out 8th freedom rights to NON Brazilian companies? I mean, that's outrageous, and confirms the clear anti-RG position this administration has.
It was the first mistake of the brand new ANAC (National Agency for Civil Aviation) and its president. He made a speech trying to sell the idea of give 8th Freedom Rights. But he was forced by Varig, Tam, Gol, BRA, Ocean Air, Civil society, Infraero, and some congressmans, and confirmed two or three days ago that it will not happen!
Very CRAZY idea, while i personally love competition, it's clear that foreigners will try to take part on the best routes like Rio-São Paulo.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3560 times:
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 7): They don't need it anymore since TAP's entry into Star. Germans are now the largest group of European passengers on TP's flights to Brazil, after the Portuguese.
Although LH has to build on synergies with TP's 40 weekly flights to Brazil, it simply cannot substitute for LH flights and FRA hub connections. Take into accunt that a lot of LH pax in Brazil connect to many destinations TP does not serve, especially in Asia.
It was a big mistake LH decision to cut capacity in GRU. In fact, LH has been doing a lot of mistakes in the region: GRU, GIG, EZE, SCL, CCS. It will pay a heavy price for this and it will be difficult to come back.
LH already stated that the second daily flight FRA-GRU will axed only for 8 months, and resumed by the end of 2006. This is very poor marketing strategy. Many pax will simply switch to AF/KL, BA, IB, etc, while also growing further their operations in GRU. Detail: LH will cut the second daily flight to GRU exactly during the World Cup.
Yet I cannot understand how an airline such as LH does not fly EZE nonstop. LH has taken many wrong decisions in the region.
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 9): Really, take a look at it, LH lost all of its business travelers to Air France because it axed the FRA-EZE-SCL to make it FRA-GRU-EZE/SCL. They really don't have a clue of what to do.
Correct. And now LH will fly SCL with LX-operated aircraft, confusing pax and showing how poor is their marketing.
IB has said loud and clear that the A380 is too big for them. Yes, sometimes they could use an aircraft "slightly bigger" than the A346 on certain routes in certain days, but nothing more than that. Destinations such as EZE or MEX are doing fine with 2 daily A346s. In 10 years...who knows, but currently the A380 is not part of Iberia's plans and it would not make sense at all to get a couple of them just for 2 destinations, which btw on low season can show LOW load factors from time to time.
The 747-8 would fit better, but I don't think it will hapen either.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3094 posts, RR: 59 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3423 times:
Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 16): "Que lastima".So no A380 to south America?
No A380 for IB, that's what Alfonso meant.
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 15): The 747-8 would fit better, but I don't think it will hapen either.
Hola Alfonso!
Is there any there any "hint" from IB's BoD that they will stick or get the new A340-600E or switch to a plane like the A350?
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10): It was the first mistake of the brand new ANAC (National Agency for Civil Aviation) and its president. He made a speech trying to sell the idea of give 8th Freedom Rights. But he was forced by Varig, Tam, Gol, BRA, Ocean Air, Civil society, Infraero, and some congressmans, and confirmed two or three days ago that it will not happen!
Very CRAZY idea, while i personally love competition, it's clear that foreigners will try to take part on the best routes like Rio-São Paulo.
Hey Lipe!
Thank you very much for the information!
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7253 posts, RR: 45 Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3404 times:
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 15): Destinations such as EZE or MEX are doing fine with 2 daily A346s.
MEX does not even get that many seats. I believe IB flies 11x weekly to MEX using mostly A343's with some A346's thrown into the mix. And with AM getting 772ER's with 34 in. pitch and PTV's in Y, IB will be hard-pressed to improve its service before adding more capacity.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3094 posts, RR: 59 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3387 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18): MEX does not even get that many seats. I believe IB flies 11x weekly to MEX using mostly A343's with some A346's thrown into the mix. And with AM getting 772ER's with 34 in. pitch and PTV's in Y, IB will be hard-pressed to improve its service before adding more capacity.
Eddie,
I doubt IB will receive any pressure with these initial 772ERs. They pose no threat to IB, since IB is operating bigger planes and the 777s would only be able to go daily if you dedicate both to the route.
Still, it's an increase in capacity and a mixture between 772s and 762s would do fine with the route.
The real threat, I think, will begin as soon as AM starts getting more 772ERs, to be able to sustain a daily service with 772ERs. So, IB may start putting A340-600s now --- or just leave it like this, for the time being.
Cheers!
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7253 posts, RR: 45 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3382 times:
You are absolutely right about that. I need to clarify my point because I did not mean pressure so much in the sense of demand-supply because as you say, AM will only get 2 frames initially, but rather pressure in the sense of quality and preference. IB could start to lose some pax to AM because of the better service and inflight experience.
IBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1825 posts, RR: 62 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3380 times:
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 17): Hola Alfonso!
Is there any there any "hint" from IB's BoD that they will stick or get the new A340-600E or switch to a plane like the A350?
Hola colega.
Nope. Nothing has been said at the moment. IB is still waiting for 2 more A346s to be delivered this coming spring and the 18 A343s currently in service are still quite young to make the company's BoD think of an alternative.
This is the entire Iberia's A340-300/600 currently in service with each aircraft's delivery date:
REG.......MSN...TYPE......DELIVERY........NAME
EC-GGS...125 340-313 23/06/1996 Concha Espina
EC-GHX...134 340-313 01/11/1996 Rosalia De Castro
EC-GJT....145 340-313 01/11/1996 Rosa Chacel
EC-GLE....146 340-313 04/01/1997 Concepción Arenal
EC-GPB....193 340-313X 21/10/1997 Teresa de Ávila
EC-GQK....197 340-313X 10/11/1997 Emilia Pardo Bazán
EC-GUP....217 340-313X 26/05/1998 Agustina de Aragón
EC-GUQ...221 340-313X 25/06/1998 Beatriz Galindo
EC-HDQ...302 340-313X 01/12/1999 Sor Juana Inés De La Cruz
EC-HGU...318 340-313X 09/02/2000 María de Molina
EC-HGV...329 340-313X 11/04/2000 Maria Guerrero
EC-HGX...332 340-313X 13/04/2000 Maria Pita
EC-HQF...378 340-313X 16/01/2001 Maria de Zayas y Sotomayor
EC-HQH...387 340-313X 01/03/2001 Mariana de Silva
EC-HQN...414 340-313X 10/07/2001 Luisa Carvajal y Mendoza
EC-ICF....459 340-313X 28/02/2002 Maria Zambrano
EC-IDF....474 340-313X 21/05/2002 Mariana Pineda
EC-IIH.....483 340-313X 06/12/2002 Maria Bárbara de Braganza
EC-INO....431 340-642 24/06/2003 Gaudi
EC-IOB....440 340-642 31/08/2003 Julio Romero de Torres
EC-IQR....460 340-642 07/10/2003 Salvador Dali
EC-IZX....601 340-642 06/10/2004 Mariano Benlliure
EC-IZY....604 340-642 10/11/2004 Ignacio Zuloaga
EC-JBA....606 340-642 25/11/2004 Joaquín Rodrigo
EC-JCY....617 340-642 27/01/2005 Andres Segovia
EC-JCZ....619 340-642 25/02/2005 Vicente Aleixandre
EC-JFX....672 340-642 11/06/2005 Jacinto Benavente
EC-JLE....702 340-642 19/10/2005 Ramón y Cajal
EC-JNQ...727 340-642 10/02/2006 Antonio Machado
The next A340-600 to join the fleet will be registered as EC-JOH (msn 731) and it already made it's first flight on Feb 1st with the test registration F-WWCE. Aircraft's name will be Miguel De Unamuno.
IBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1825 posts, RR: 62 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3375 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18): MEX does not even get that many seats. I believe IB flies 11x weekly to MEX using mostly A343's with some A346's thrown into the mix.
There are days when both flights to MEX are operated with the A346.
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 15): Destinations such as EZE or MEX are doing fine with 2 daily A346s
I stand corrected. What I meant was "Destinations such as MEX or EZE can do fine with 2 daily A346s".
Btw...my trip to GUA via MEX is still pending, and it seems that it will have to be delayed once again.
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7253 posts, RR: 45 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3356 times:
Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 22): There are days when both flights to MEX are operated with the A346.
Very interesting! Not too long ago, the A343's were the rule and the -600's the exception. Good for IB! Thanks for the update. By the way, check your IM's.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 9): Really --- Latin America is not just only Brazil.
Not it's not but wasn't the topic of this thread about Brazil?
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 11): Take into accunt that a lot of LH pax in Brazil connect to many destinations TP does not serve, especially in Asia.
LH is still one of the most profitable airlines in Europe. they must be doing something right. If they've been pulling back from S.America and Brazil it's because they think they can make more money somewhere else. In most cases if the choice is between S.America or some Asian destination, the choice is a no-brainer. More so if they can code-share on those flights with one of their Star Alliance partners. The money and future growth opportunity is in Asia.
25 Cedars747: But do you think that some South American airlines could order the A380? Saludos desde Noruega Alex!!!
26 EddieDude: I don't think so. I mean, I am sure you can fill a 550+ seats flight between GRU-LIS, GRU-CDG and EZE-MAD for example, but can that be sustained all
27 Hardiwv: I would not be surprised if AF deploys the A380 to MEX, GRU or GIG. Sorry, but the statement "Asia" is too loose the same way the statement "South Am
28 CityAirline: You make it sound like China is the ONLY country in asia in which they can expand in, and the Philippines the ONLY country they cant expand to. For e
29 Avianca: I can imagine that the yields on the Europe-Gru routes are going down with the additional services... I agree that LH did made some mistakes in the r
30 Hardiwv: You did not get my point. I stated that Asia is too general a region. It is the same as saying "The Americas" (which includes the US, and is a comple
31 Avianca: true at least in th past the EZE-SCL flights were really money-maker and always full in ECO,Business and First. Sometimes they had even route busines
32 Tope98: i cant believe they will not get back daily to CCS this summer. its almost imposible to get a ticket during summer season with daily flights so this
33 Avianca: sadly true that they will not come back daily this summer. (its already confirmed) yes a B744 wouldnt be bad on the route and I am sure they could fi
34 CityAirline: No, I think I did get your point. I just ment why you took the philippines as an example (I know, it was just an example), when you could have taken
35 EddieDude: I have gotten two answers to that question. One is that they are focusing more on other destinations where they can make fatter profits. The second o
36 Hardiwv: Same here. In the meanwhile, AF and IB are ripping the benefits. AZ and TP are also doing well in CCS. Agree. AF/KL growth in the region has mainly b
37 Ghost77: Few days ago I was with IB A340 pilot and a.net spotter Javi Rodrí at MEX. I entered IB's briefing room and spoke with IB's MEX chief. IB a few mont
38 Avianca: yes this point is totally true, they are focusing to ASIA destinations
39 Airbazar: They're not being neglected. Like I said, Brazil is now better served than ever before via their Star Alliance partner, TAP. I don't think they've be
40 LipeGIG: You're right. Consolidators every day announce special fares for C class and even for Y and F (it's easy to buy one and get two tickets) due to the h
41 Anxebla: Do you really think that? On my point of view, I don't think so.
42 Hardiwv: Disagree. In my point of view, in general terms, Brazil is more important than India. Of course, the current darling of aviation is China, no doubt a
43 SOUTHAMERICA: Better served? Probably seen from LH's eyes, because we Latin Americans are the big-time loosers of the story. As Hardi well-said, TP's global servic
44 Hardiwv: Completely subscribe to the above statement. Totally agree. Out of all Star partners, the only ones with evident interest in the region are AC and TP
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