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Boeing Sued For Helios Crash  
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 10518 times:

Read this in Flygtorget *only in swedish*

http://www.flygtorget.se/nyheter/nyhetsdetaljer.asp?ID=3821

More to read in http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/

Cant find the article thou....

Micke//SWE


Airbus SAS - Love them both
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 10396 times:

Since Swedish is far from being a lingua franca, how about a translation?


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 10396 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
Since Swedish is far from being a lingua franca, how about a translation?

 checkmark 

Chris



Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 10365 times:

Found this on the web

Boeing Sued

Basically, they are complaining that even though the pilots were possibly negligent, Boeing should have had a more robust checklist and alarm system for the pressurization system .....

How many takeoffs have 737's had?
How many decompressions?

This was a tragic accident, but I am not sure what the law will have to say about Boeing's responsibility here.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 10328 times:

CasInterest:

Thank U for saving me and my bad english translation

Micke//SWE  relieved 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17442 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 10328 times:

Boeing is always sued the instant a plane crashes, regardless of what the causes of the crash are. It's standard practice--sue first, ask questions later.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineYYZflyer From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10156 times:

Does the depressurization have something to do with the design of the 737 , bad maintenance or something else ?......


Avoid hangovers, stay drunk.
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10104 times:

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 6):
Does the depressurization have something to do with the design of the 737 , bad maintenance or something else ?.

See the document linked above. It has already been established that the pilots flew the aircraft with the pressurization system incorrectly configured, and are therefore negligently responsible.

The lawyers can complain all they like that Boeing were negligent in their alert system designs and checklists, but I don't think it will hold much weight. If anything, the lawsuit should be against Helios for evident inadequacies in training and situation testing of their pilots.


User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10098 times:

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 6):
Does the depressurization have something to do with the design of the 737

Apparently not. It's flown countless cycles and obviously has no problem with its pressurization design.



Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10035 times:

Quoting YYZflyer (Reply 6):
Does the depressurization have something to do with the design of the 737 , bad maintenance or something else ?......

If this was the 60's or 70's Id have to ask that question, but the basic design of the 737 has proven itself for decades. The fault lies with Helios' crew inadequacies.



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineAirlineAV8tr From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 191 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10016 times:

Does anyone know when this a/c was last inspected by maintenance? Seems to me that the fault would lay with them- not the pilots.


If we went into the funeral business, people would stop dying.-Martin S. (PanAm CEO)
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 9979 times:

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 3):
Found this on the web

The reader's comments are particularly nice

Quote:
Posted By: Borders
Comment:
Right. Boeing might even have been among the victims :

Cyprus' plane wasn't it flying too close to Turkish borders when the system reportedly went astray ?

Electronics are too fragile, when exposed to EM waves, etc.


and

Quote:
Posted By: Still flying
Comment:
Explain to me, what representative of Boeing was on the flight deck when the Helios pilots failed?

 biggrin   banghead   laughing 


User currently offlinePureKiwi From New Zealand, joined Feb 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 9895 times:

The crash was most likely caused by the pilots because most Aircraft Crashes these days are Human Error. Also it isn't boeings fault if the pilots forget to pressurize the plane or run the checklist properly and since this plane has been flying for years why would a fault only show up after all this time?

Robert


User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 9810 times:

Guys

This is standard litigation strategy. Sue all possible plaintiffs within the statute of limitations. If you don't you lose the possibility of it.

I also don't think anyone can say for sure that the airline, the pilots, the manufacturer of the aircraft, ATC, or anyone else involved is not responsible yet, as the facts are still being developed. Just because an airplane has been in service for decades doesn't mean that there might not have been a problem in this instance. Sometimes it takes years for a problem to be known. Also, you can bet that Boeing will defend the suit vigorously. A big factor here is that the big pockets happen to be with Boeing. Much more than the airline, which is a small company.

I believe that maintenance issues, pilot training, language problems and overall crew performance will be major factors here, but there could also be a problem with the aircraft systems. But we really don't know for sure yet. So the attorneys for the victims are simply doing their job.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

Yep, when i worked for a law firm in NYC, we had a hit and run client, and the standard procedure was to file suit against:

the driver who fled the scene
his employer (he was coming home from a function)
toyota of north america (he was driving a lexus)
toyota motor credit corporation (the lexus was leased)

deep pockets. Lawyers suck. These were good people I worked for, but it still turned me off of being a lawyer.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFUMANCHEWD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9541 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
Boeing is always sued the instant a plane crashes, regardless of what the causes of the crash are. It's standard practice--sue first, ask questions later.

This is true of all aircraft manufacturers and is mostly the reason why Cessna 172s cost almost as much as a decent house now. Remember the idiot who didn't have his seat in a secured position, the seat moved backward on flare, he stalled the aircraft, and he sued Cessna for his own inability to be "responsible for the operation of the aircraft"? Aviation lawyers are some of the most ruthless. I know of some who own their own jets. Anytime an airliner crashes there is ALWAYS litigation.


User currently offlineOnetogo From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9426 times:

Quoting FUMANCHEWD (Reply 15):
Remember the idiot who didn't have his seat in a secured position, the seat moved backward on flare, he stalled the aircraft, and he sued Cessna for his own inability to be "responsible for the operation of the aircraft"?

That gentleman actually lost his life in that fatal crash. His family filed a wrongful death suit on his behalf. Obviously you have never flown in the front seat of a Cessna aircraft before. All of us on here who have would know better than to label the victim as an 'idiot'. Please choose your words more wisely.


User currently offlineOptionsCLE From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8797 times:

Quoting Onetogo (Reply 16):
That gentleman actually lost his life in that fatal crash. His family filed a wrongful death suit on his behalf. Obviously you have never flown in the front seat of a Cessna aircraft before. All of us on here who have would know better than to label the victim as an 'idiot'. Please choose your words more wisely.

I have flow a 172, and can tell you that I would never take off without rocking back and forth to make sure that the seat is securely positioned. It's one of the first lessons learned! It is the pilots job to ensure the safety of the flight and that includes his/her own ability to safely control the aircraft.

First you sue McDonalds for heating your coffee too hot, next is Cessna for you being incompetent of positioning your seat correctly. Give me a break! Anyone who defends this person has never flown a plane.


User currently offlineDeC From Greece, joined Aug 2005, 616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8244 times:

Well, there's obviously no meaning to this as well as many other plane crashes where the manufacturer of the plane gets sued just for the sake of it. I perfectly understand the grief and pain of the families as I too come from Cyprus and I live all the events first-hand. However everyone pretty much knows that all the investigation evidence point to the direction of a clear pilot error and we’re just waiting for the official conclusion to prove this further; the rest are just plain silly lawyer policies.


DEC
User currently offlineIDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7915 times:

In my personal opinion based on what has been known so far about the accident, there was a small mistake by Boeing in using the same alarm for incorrect t/o config and lack of pressurization, and a larger and larger mistake by the pilots in not knowing the above small mistake.

I-DAWA.



Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
Yep, when i worked for a law firm in NYC, we had a hit and run client, and the standard procedure was to file suit against:

the driver who fled the scene
his employer (he was coming home from a function)
toyota of north america (he was driving a lexus)
toyota motor credit corporation (the lexus was leased)

deep pockets. Lawyers suck. These were good people I worked for, but it still turned me off of being a lawyer.

does that mean it's FedEx,Boeing,MAC and Newbalance that I tripped on my way into the plane yesterday morning?
Why do they allow these frivlous lawsuits?

I wonder if anyone sued pepsi for breaking a nail and getting an infection for opening a can of Mt.Dew of course Ball for making a faulty can and the packin plant. The plant supervisor's mother, for giving birth to him and....just kidding



Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineKellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 17):
Quoting Onetogo (Reply 16):That gentleman actually lost his life in that fatal crash. His family filed a wrongful death suit on his behalf. Obviously you have never flown in the front seat of a Cessna aircraft before. All of us on here who have would know better than to label the victim as an 'idiot'. Please choose your words more wisely.

I have flow a 172, and can tell you that I would never take off without rocking back and forth to make sure that the seat is securely positioned. It's one of the first lessons learned! It is the pilots job to ensure the safety of the flight and that includes his/her own ability to safely control the aircraft.

A couple of important points.

1. As I recall, the seat track itself failed in that accident, so that even if you had checked the seat being secure before takeoff, it wouldn't have mattered.

2. Yes the lawsuit frenzy against general aviation aircraft manufacturers was very difficult for them and that is why a number of them went bankrupt (Piper) and others stopped producing light aircraft (Cessna). But this was changed by the General Aviation Revitalization Act in the 1990s, which placed limits (A statute of repose) on how far back you could actually go to sue a manufacturer, limiting it to 18 years maximum. This helped to protect manuafacturers who previously were open to lawsuits for aircraft they had built 30-40 years before.

This is why we have seen Cessna, New Piper, Beech but especially others, like Cirrus and Lancair/Columbia come back into the market. The number of general aviation aircraft being built is increasing year over year.


User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7097 times:

How many more backup systems can an aircraft have. The B737 has had its problems, but over all is one of the safest planes in the air. This law suit is just another way of taking the blame off of the aircraft maint. personel and the aircraft crew. You can only have so many backup systems and check list per aircraft type or the plane would never get off the ground.....

User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4878 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

This is ridiculous. Suing Boeing for an operator's stupidity is not on. What else do these jokers want to ground every 737 currently in use?  Yeah sure Idiots.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineFUMANCHEWD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

Quoting Onetogo (Reply 16):
That gentleman actually lost his life in that fatal crash. His family filed a wrongful death suit on his behalf. Obviously you have never flown in the front seat of a Cessna aircraft before. All of us on here who have would know better than to label the victim as an 'idiot'. Please choose your words more wisely.

I have quite a bit of time in Cessnas. Never assume that you know more than a stranger. Please tell me how my statement is incorrect? The seat system was flawed, but so was the pilots ability to be the "person directly responsible" for the aircraft. I always double check the seats are secure.

How is the fact whether the crash was fatal or not relevant to a frivolous lawsuit? Try making a valid point next time.


25 JoeCattoli : Not even very informed... wasn't it a 737-300? Ciao Joe
26 Post contains links and images DeC : Indeed, it was a Boeing 737-31S This was the plane: View Large View MediumPhoto © Richard Janura
27 SATX : The McDonald's coffee case sounds crazy, but was actually legit. Unless you have some new information in the case, you might want to think about that
28 Post contains images N908AW : Ahhh yes. The meticulous critique of a news article by a.nutters.
29 Onetogo : You called the victim an "idiot". How absurd.
30 Ikramerica : Well, allow and win are two different things. You file a complaint and list everyone as a defendant, then the judge in the case will examine the evid
31 Zeke : Some ponits to ponder ... 1) A function check of the masks maybe successful even with the Oxygen turned off upstream due to latent pressure in the sy
32 Bill142 : Exactly. Its most likley Helios' insurance company which is suing Boeing and not Helios. They have probably forked over to Helios for the hull write
33 Post contains images Piercey : Where was the lawsuit filed: Cyprus, Greece or other? Who has the deeper pockets? funny, I thought these were the own and drive their own RVs b/c fly
34 Kangar : I think this lawsuit can be filed under the "Throw enough s%&t and see if anything will stick anywhere" category......What's sad is that the days this
35 BuyantUkhaa : Actually, Boeing was also sued after the 1977 Tenerife disaster, and paid 5% of the total insurance that was given to the victims and relatives. The r
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