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AA... Cheaper Out Of DAL Than DFW?  
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

While booking a romantic weekend for the missus and myself. I noticed... much to my dismay, that AA (eagle) ceased all AE flights to San Antonio from DFW. Only AA mainline service, which by the way is more expensive, exists out of DFW. So now I gotta drive all the way to DAL to catch an AA/AE flight, which blows cause I live in Ft Worth. I'm just trying to figure out what AA thinks its doing moving AE flights from DFW. (obviously a hub for AE) This doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do to the only part of AMR making money. All in all It's not that big a deal. The hundred bucks I saved on the ticket is going to more than cover my parking at DAL and extra fuel expenses. It's just frustrating. This isn't a Wright Amendment thing, Trust me, I am sick and tired of that same old BS. I just want to know if AA does indeed dictate AE's routes. If so, then i guess it's cool cause I'm pretty sure that ERJ 145's are more efficient than 737's. But why pull from DFW also. CO uses 737's at DFW and ERJ's at DAL going to IAH. And then again maybe I dont have just one question but many (a rant if you will). I would just like some other takes on this situation. (NOT WRIGHT AMENDMENT RELATED)


I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 921 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

Quoting BigJimFX (Thread starter):
(NOT WRIGHT AMENDMENT RELATED)

Heh...wishful thinking. The Wright Amendment is all this one gears off of.



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Dude I know. I can dream can't I?


I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5721 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Wow, you're wrong all over the place.
But, we still like ya.
ERJ-145s more efficient than 737s? Not even if you're smoking the cheapest of pot.
Let's talk about cost per available seat mile. The more seats a plane has, the less it costs the airline to fly that plane on a PER SEAT basis. A 737-900 is more economical than a 737-800, for example. A 777 is more economical than a 767.
One of the reasons that the RJ revolution proved to be such a curse is that airlines like Delta, which went bananas for the Canadair models, soon found out that no, people are NOT willing to pay more for an RJ flight than they were for a turboprop flight. The insanely high costs of operating small jets couldn't be made up for by selling more tickets.
Now, that's mixing two issues into one, but the principle remains- RJs are difficult to fly profitably on a consistent basis. Continental seems to do okay, as does American Eagle.

Here's more. MD-80s, though no longer the fuel sippers they were when introduced, are by default more fuel conscious than ERJs. Yeah, they burn more, but they spread it out over a LOT more seats. American is better off flying one MD-80 flight (I am speaking of cost considerations) than they are flying three ERJ-145 flights, which is what it would take to make up the seats.

Yes, AMR owns Eagle (at least, most of it). And they decide where they need small planes and where they need big ones.

You say that DFW is obviously a hub for AE. Well, in case you hadn't caught on, it's also a hub for AA. If you can fill 10 Super 80s between DFW and Austin every day, you'd not be doing anybody any favors by flying 28 ERD's.

I am shocked and appalled that AA charges $100 less to fly out of Love. But I prefer Love anyway, even though I live in Irving. Can you say LESS CONGESTED? Or maybe, SHORTER (if existent) LINES? Or perhaps NO OTHER PLANES IN LINE FOR THE RUNWAY? Or try I'M THE ONLY ONE WAITING FOR BAGS? Yes, all of that and more can be yours for a limited time only at Love Field.

American has carefully calculated how many of their customers are going to choose flying out of Love, and how many will continue DFW. Apparently, they have put these certain planes on the appropriate route. They hope, anyway. Interesting, they've already said they don't expect to make any money out of the Love shindig.

Anyway, I hope that sheds some light on the operations of airlines, and the oddities of flying in the beloved spot we call our Metroplex.
Have a nice romantic getaway... and eat lots of Mexican food!
Nowhere can you find better Mexican food than the riverwalk.... aaaaaah.
Maybe I should plan a romantic getaway with the missus to San Antonio.... I guess that would first involve acquiring a missus...


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Big Jim,

Keep in mind RJ's are not always cheaper than mainline aircraft. FL proved they could operate a 717 cheaper than ZW CRJ. The extra revenue (717 > seats than CRJ) makes the mainline aircraft more profitable. I'm sure AA knows this. Also, do not forget AE must match SW fares, so of course this will be cheaper.

Is AA flying out of DAL or AE only? Don't forget AA acknowledge DAL will not be profitable.


User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
One of the reasons that the RJ revolution proved to be such a curse is that airlines like Delta, which went bananas for the Canadair models, soon found out that no, people are NOT willing to pay more for an RJ flight than they were for a turboprop flight

True... I would pick a brazillian over a CRJ anyday. I love Brazilias!

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Yes, AMR owns Eagle (at least, most of it). And they decide where they need small planes and where they need big ones

What a gip!

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
You say that DFW is obviously a hub for AE. Well, in case you hadn't caught on, it's also a hub for AA.

All day. Every day!

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Have a nice romantic getaway... and eat lots of Mexican food!

Don't think I have much of a choice, that's all the woman eats!

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 4):
Is AA flying out of DAL or AE only? Don't forget AA acknowledge DAL will not be profitable

Well I'm pretty sure that the only flights to SAT are on AE. I "think" that AA mainline is only facilitating flights to STL and MCI



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4358 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3687 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

If your unhappy with AA's crAAp, WN will be happy to have your business in DAL if your going to drive to DAL anyways. WN's everyday fares from DAL-SAT are $49 one way (given enough advance), with full fare walk up refundable only $110 one way. Go ahead, give WN a try. At least give someone who is keeping the prices low your money.


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineNateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Wow, you're wrong all over the place.
But, we still like ya.
ERJ-145s more efficient than 737s? Not even if you're smoking the cheapest of pot.
Let's talk about cost per available seat mile. The more seats a plane has, the less it costs the airline to fly that plane on a PER SEAT basis. A 737-900 is more economical than a 737-800, for example. A 777 is more economical than a 767.

Of course, assuming that you sell all the seats. Sometimes, a 737 is too big for the time or route.

Gordon Bethune said that you will never loose money by flying too small of an aircraft. He was right.



Set Love Free
User currently offlineNateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3680 times:

Quoting BigJimFX (Thread starter):
CO uses 737's at DFW and ERJ's at DAL going to IAH.

CO uses ERJs at DAL so they can sell connections. Airlines flying less than 56 seat equipment can fly outside the Wright boundaries or sell connections to anywhere.

When CO started at DAL, the slogan was "Love to the World." They still have some banners up at DAL.



Set Love Free
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3674 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
I am shocked and appalled that AA charges $100 less to fly out of Love.

And of course we all know that this could not possibly have anything to do with the presence of Southwest at DAL -- and their absence at DFW. After all, the experts at a.net have kept us well informed of the "fact" that the legacies' fares are always cheaper than the fares offered by Southwest on the same date and route Wink


User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3669 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 6):
WN's everyday fares from DAL-SAT are $49 one way (given enough advance), with full fare walk up refundable only $110 one way

I wouldn't mind, although it would kinda be like sleeping with the enemy. But I looked into it for a few days and believe it or not, AE was still cheaper.



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3649 times:

Quoting BigJimFX (Thread starter):
Only AA mainline service, which by the way is more expensive

That's just wrong. On a given day, a seat on an Eagle flight might be lower because of the lower demand for service on that day, but remember that that same seat might cost $39 or $229, depending upon what AA's pricing department thinks that it can get for it.

Southwest, on the other hand, doesn't play those games, at least not to the same extent as AA.

Funny how AA has to: (1) offer low, low prices; (2) offer TRIPLE FF miles, thus diverting its own DFW traffic to Love; and (3) offer TRIPLE Business Bribe points to companies, again diverting its own DFW traffic to Love, in order to even get a few folks to fly its planes from Love. What a hoot! More and more reminds me of when they tried the same approach to keep people from flying JetBlue to Southern California, blanketing the airports (SNA, for example) from JFK, and dumping seats and offering insane mileage bonuses, only to dump the whole mess within a year. And the same thing will happen at Love.


User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 11):
Quoting BigJimFX (Thread starter):
Only AA mainline service, which by the way is more expensive

That's just wrong. On a given day, a seat on an Eagle flight might be lower because of the lower demand for service on that day, but remember that that same seat might cost $39 or $229, depending upon what AA's pricing department thinks that it can get for it.

It may be... I appologize if I am wrong, I only looked into it for the weekend. AE may just not offer flights from DFW-SAT on that weekend. It just blows my mind cause I remember seeing SAT flights from DFW on AE a few months back. Oh well at least I'm not flying on an MD-80. I'm not a douglas hater cause I like -9's, -10's and -11's. I've just seen AA have too many problems with with the -80's. From gear problems to engines eating themselves. Then again, that may just be because of the shear volume of -80 traffic I see.



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 7):
Gordon Bethune said that you will never loose money by flying too small of an aircraft. He was right.

Or was he. What if he's got 75 people wanting to buy a ticket on a 50 seat RJ? Where do they go - the competition. Southwest always figured that if your load factor on a route got much above 75%, you were losing customers. Gordon may have been right talking about an RJ flying from CLE to Knoxville, but EWR-MCI? And the trend I see is more "long haul" RJ flying.


User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Quoting BigJimFX (Thread starter):
Only AA mainline service, which by the way is more expensive, exists out of DFW. So now I gotta drive all the way to DAL to catch an AA/AE flight

How the heck did you come up with this? They both cost the same. ($98 a month advanced) They only possible way this is true is if you looked on a date when all the cheap fares out of DFW are sold already, and DAL isn't. Other than that, this isn't remotely true. Especially when you say mainline is a hundred more. Competition with WN wouldn't even allow this is anyway.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3442 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 14):
How the heck did you come up with this? They both cost the same. ($98 a month advanced) They only possible way this is true is if you looked on a date when all the cheap fares out of DFW are sold already, and DAL isn't.

That makes sense. I didn't look into them till about 19 days ahead of time. This was kind of a last minute thing. But now momma's happy. And if momma's happy, I'm happy



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5721 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 5):
Don't think I have much of a choice, that's all the woman eats

Wow, good woman. Does she have a sister???
Or were you saying that ya'll are hispanic??? Although... come to think of it... I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea, either... hmmmmmmmm.


Okay, in all seriousness:

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 7):
Of course, assuming that you sell all the seats.

Certainly. But, as someone just pointed out, if I have 150 people that want to fly DAL-SAT and I show up in a Cessna 310, I'm losing money. My operation may be profitable, but look how much potential I am throwing away!

Incidentall, had you considered Continental? I think they're flying 757-300s between IAH and SAT. And let me tell ya, that is ONE NICE RIDE.
Granted, there's a connection in IAH which is totally unnecessary considering you've got AA or WN... but still. I am a huge CO fan.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3392 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 16):
I think they're flying 757-300s between IAH and SAT. And let me tell ya, that is ONE NICE RIDE.

Sounds nice! I flew a DL 763 from CVG-JFK and it was amazing - almost everyone else was connecting to international flights except me and 4 others.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9266 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 6):
If your unhappy with AA's crAAp, WN will be happy to have your business in DAL if your going to drive to DAL anyways. WN's everyday fares from DAL-SAT are $49 one way (given enough advance), with full fare walk up refundable only $110 one way. Go ahead, give WN a try. At least give someone who is keeping the prices low your money.



Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 10):
I wouldn't mind, although it would kinda be like sleeping with the enemy. But I looked into it for a few days and believe it or not, AE was still cheaper.

Well you can spend $49 and fly Southwest.

Or, you can spend $44 and fly American. That's what they've been charging as of lately.

And as we found out with the $.99 craze, the $5 less speaks volumes to the potential customer.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
people are NOT willing to pay more for an RJ flight than they were for a turboprop flight.

correct, but they are much more willing to pay the SAME fare on a respective route for an RJ as opposed to a prop.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineDFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

Just FYI, Eagle has never flown DFW-SAT. That has always been mainline. Eagle has never served SAT (at least since the Eagle merger 9 years ago). Eagle does serve AUS, but only from RDU, as the DFW-AUS also has always been mainline. Never eagle. Just clearing that up.

User currently offlineLegion242 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Nowhere can you find better Mexican food than the riverwalk.... aaaaaah.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! The places on the riverwalk are awful. Look for Ajua's by USAA. AWESOME FOOD.



Don't make me release the monkeys!!
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 18):

Well you can spend $49 and fly Southwest.

Or, you can spend $44 and fly American. That's what they've been charging as of lately.

And as we found out with the $.99 craze, the $5 less speaks volumes to the potential customer.

And here's the beautiful thing...it probably costs AA $47 to operate the flight, and it costs Southwest $46. And those differences speak even bigger volumes.


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