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DL Cuts 757 From SDQ And STI  
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1925 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3924 times:
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I heard from a co-worker that the reason for the cutback of the 757 and during peak 767 to 737 Dominican Republic service is that we lost our freight contract. That sounds plausible but is it true

[Edited 2006-02-26 07:20:46]


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJumpseat70 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

I would think that if you work for Delta you could confirm this someplace other than here. Seems somewhat unprofessional.

User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Several freight forwarders are nervous with Delta's future. M6 has been gaining Caribbien market share along with Custom Air Transport. Don't forget there has been a mass exodus from DAL in departments. They're hiring in some area, but it's related to buying a ticket on the Titantic.

In addition, should the DAL ALPA not agree to this contract talks, 25 757 will be returned to GECAS.


DAL will be a much smaller airline should they survive. Notice the cut back in all hubs except ATL and JFK. They're retrenching in ATL to maintain it's gates. The BK courts gave Delta gate utilization plan or lose them to the city. AA is building up ATL. You don't want FL and AA circling you in the water when you're bleeding.

FL is the pirahnna and AA is the Great White.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
DAL will be a much smaller airline should they survive. Notice the cut back in all hubs except ATL and JFK. They're retrenching in ATL to maintain it's gates. The BK courts gave Delta gate utilization plan or lose them to the city. AA is building up ATL. You don't want FL and AA circling you in the water when you're bleeding.

AA is not building up ATL. They simply added service between ATL-LGA, one of the largest O&D markets in the country. AA adding a measly 5 daily flights, some of which are RJs, isn't going to even make a dent in DL's/OH's/EV's 950+ daily flights at ATL. AA was simply connecting some dots at LGA, similar to what DL's doing with the addition of LGA-ORD and LGA-DFW. This may very well be retaliatory, but it makes some sense from a business point of view.

Jeremy


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3682 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
DAL will be a much smaller airline should they survive.



Based on what info?

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
Notice the cut back in all hubs except ATL and JFK.

Right, and notice the huge growth in those two hubs. In aggregate, it more than makes up for any cutbacks at CVG or SLC. And what about all the growth in point to point service (i.e. RDU-LAX; BDL-LAX) and the focus cities such as CMH?

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
They're retrenching in ATL to maintain it's gates.

OR, because from a network planning standpoint it is the wisest choice. Geographically it is perfectly suited as a mega hub, plus the new 5th runway comes online in another 3 months so it handle the increased flights.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
AA is building up ATL.

How so? Increased service to MIA, DFW, ORD? New RJ service to LGA? Ooooh...scary.

[Edited 2006-02-26 20:26:27]

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 days ago) and read 3609 times:
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Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Thread starter):
I heard from a co-worker that the reason for the cutback of the 757 and during peak 767 to 737 Dominican Republic service is that we lost our freight contract.

The 757s return to both STI and SDQ in late June (starting around June 23 I think) in time for the peak summer season. During that time, every airline can easily sell out an A380 if they wanted to!


User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Thread starter):
I heard from a co-worker that the reason for the cutback of the 757 and during peak 767 to 737 Dominican Republic service is that we lost our freight contract.

I guess that'd make sense at least. A friend at DL said that SDQ was huge on freight. Then I saw the flights downgraded and was quite surprised.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 4):
Based on what info?

Based on the fact, there is over capacity in the market - this will force DAL to reduce it's capacity tremendously.

DAL secured credit from banks - GECAS and American Express instead of investment groups. The banks expectations on return have not been met.

Hence the reason, the banks petitioned the courts to force DAL to maintain, leveraged aircraft, to the same maintenace standards as their other aircraft. Delta filed SEC dislosure of an additional $20 million/month unforecasted cost to meet the court order. Not to mention GECAS will file a motion to remove 25 - 757 should the pilot deal not come together on 3/1.

DAL has a flawed plan, you can only build ATL ups so much to where it's not economical. When you had 600+/day with 85 % market share and increase to 900+/day with no increase in market share and record losses...proves it flawed. ATL was tapped out for domestic expansion long ago. Now DAL has decided to jump into the Int'l markets when it's a little late.

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 4):
How so? Increased service to MIA, DFW, ORD? New RJ service to LGA? Ooooh...scary.

American has secured a deal with the courts and the City of ATL in first rights of refusal. This was filed with the bankruptcy courts with in days of the filing. UAL will be moving to the freed up gates of US or HP and AA will take the landside gates and very close to annoucing one-stop Int'l service to Asia. Trust me, DAL is very concerned!!! There talent is leaving the company in record numbers. Although, they've reduced capacity Q4 loads were lower. DAL has lost pax confidence and market share. Delta AirLogistic's is for sale.

The begining of the end.


This is a typical move by a company who researches customer demand as opposed to meeting customer demand. Tehy've gotten by on sheer luck of the years and they've ran out. This will not be the same company it was 15 years ago if they're capable of surviing. Which they're proving they cannot.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3550 times:
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Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
Although, they've reduced capacity Q4 loads were lower.

Both RPMs and ASMs were lower in Q4 though RPM decreased by a smaller percentage, thereby raising LFs.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
The begining of the end.

Yes we ALL know. Delta Air Lines will cease to exist and the world will be a better place. Thanks for clarifying again for us.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
Notice the cut back in all hubs except ATL and JFK.

The only hub to have lost serious capacity is CVG. In the past year and a half or so we've seen new DL service from SLC to MIA, FLL, RDU, LIT, TPA, MEM, BNA, MSY, BDL, CLE, CMH, IND, MKE, KOA, PVR, and SJD among others. Not too shabby if you ask me. Sounds more like expansion than cutbacks.

Jeremy


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3011 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
The begining of the end.

I think you're incorrect. Though I'm a B6 investor, and a DL fallout would certainly push my stock up through the roof, I have no desire to see DL fail simply because our economy would be devastated, tens of thousands would be put out of work, etc.

In any case, DL is rapidly cutting costs. Albeit through BK (which I hate with a passion), DL's CASM is falling. If they can get costs from pilots (I'm neutral on that issue), then the CASM will be even lower.

IMO, DL is making some good decisions as far as route management. I think focussing on international growth is a great strategy as there isn't any LCC competition. It's also nice to see them shedding excess gates at MCO - improving efficiency is a great way to cut costs. I also think that ATL has a lot of ability to save DL, but they just don't know how to exploit that potential.

DL isn't going anywhere, IMO. That's not to say that they don't have many problems, because they obviously do. But today's BK policies make it virtually impossible for an airline to fold (except FlyI, but their management was much less competent than DL's).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
DAL has a flawed plan, you can only build ATL ups so much to where it's not economical. When you had 600+/day with 85 % market share and increase to 900+/day with no increase in market share and record losses...proves it flawed. ATL was tapped out for domestic expansion long ago.

Define "market share". If you are talking purely about the ATL market, who cares? An 85% market share is an 85% share. Remember, it is a HUB city, the idea is to get people from point a to point C through point B (ATL). They don't market it to solely serve ATL. The growth isn't there to capture more ATL share, it's to capture mor global share.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
Now DAL has decided to jump into the Int'l markets when it's a little late.

Wow, I must have missed something. Seems like they have been fairly strong across the Atlantic since, I don't know, 1991? And didn't they have a huge Central/South American expansion circa 1998/99/00?

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
UAL will be moving to the freed up gates of US or HP and AA will take the landside gates and very close to annoucing one-stop Int'l service to Asia.

They already have one stop service to Asia. You get on an RJ or MD-80 to DFW or ORD, and you connect to a non-stop to Asia.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
The begining of the end.

Hmm, I guess we know whom you consult for.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
Trust me, DAL is very concerned!!! There talent is leaving the company in record numbers. Although, they've reduced capacity Q4 loads were lower. DAL has lost pax confidence and market share. Delta AirLogistic's is for sale.

Of course they are, but not about AA.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
Based on the fact, there is over capacity in the market - this will force DAL to reduce it's capacity tremendously.

Right, and all the growth sure does underscore your argument.


Quoting SESGDL (Reply 10):
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 2):
Notice the cut back in all hubs except ATL and JFK.

The only hub to have lost serious capacity is CVG. In the past year and a half or so we've seen new DL service from SLC to MIA, FLL, RDU, LIT, TPA, MEM, BNA, MSY, BDL, CLE, CMH, IND, MKE, KOA, PVR, and SJD among others. Not too shabby if you ask me. Sounds more like expansion than cutbacks.

Jeremy

I stand corrected! Thanks for the clarification.

[Edited 2006-02-26 23:27:36]

User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Whats of even more interest, very interesting in fact, is that delta is flying an all coach B757 from JFK to SDQ. Not sure when this is starting but it comes up that way for the June 25th flight. This makes sense since the medallion upgrades on these flights are at a minimum, they might as well make the money with an all coach 757. I wonder if they are going to be ex song aircraft? it would make sense.

same thing for the ATL to SDQ flight. All coach B757 service. Interesting but smart move, IMO

[Edited 2006-02-27 04:40:51]

User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Might even see two daily ATL to SDQ flights this summer? Just about all ATL to SDQ flights for the month of June are already sold out, wouldnt it make sense to add frequency?

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful!!! And pretty darn well said. I can say this for Avconsultant. He is a one-liner. He can come on here and spin rhetoric, and then disappears into the dark to prove he knows not what he says. Assuming he sticks around, he is going to be a master at discrediting himself.




OttoPylit


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
Wow, I must have missed something. Seems like they have been fairly strong across the Atlantic since, I don't know, 1991? And didn't they have a huge Central/South American expansion circa 1998/99/00?

Apparently, you did. DAL is strong in numbers of pax carried not yield. DAL cutback Europe earlier this decade, not sure if it was Post - 9/11. Now DAL is returning to European destinations where AA and CO picked up after DAL discontinued service. DAL is attempting new markets in Latin America where CO and AA are well entrenched.

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
Define "market share". If you are talking purely about the ATL market, who cares? An 85% market share is an 85% share. Remember, it is a HUB city, the idea is to get people from point a to point C through point B (ATL). They don't market it to solely serve ATL. The growth isn't there to capture more ATL share, it's to capture mor global share.

This is exactly the mentaility that has DAL in trouble in CVG & SLC. A successful hub requires a strong local O&D market. Which ATL has and DFW had. You say who cares - apparently DAL cares. In 2004, 70% of their advertising budget was in the ATL market. That is critical when DAL ranks dead last in high yielding markets. Back to my comment on a flawed business plan.

You also mention, they do not market it to soley serve ATL. Why are they so sensitive towards FL when they add service in ATL? DAL is so focused on ATL, they have lost sight of reality and now blaming pilots, oil and competion for losses and being in BK.

You mention capture more global share - sure!!! However, they were a well established global airline in the late 90's. What happened?!?! FLAWED PLANNING. Besides ATL International O&D is nothing compared to JFK or LAX. Two cities where they had a sizable operation in the 90's.

Those markets have not changed, but by God everyone must go through ATL. Why???


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
There talent is leaving the company in record numbers.

1) Perhaps if you could learn to spell correctly...

2) What talent? There never was any- hence why we're in this spot today.

AvConsultant, whoever you consult for, check their cool-aid jug next time...sounds like it's been heavily spiked.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3254 times:
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Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
Now DAL is returning to European destinations where AA and CO picked up after DAL discontinued service

CO yes but not AA. AA has hardly budged on the European front and has not added any service that DL dropped (do you see them in WAW, PRG, BUD, HEL, ARN, OSL, LIS, OTP, HAM, GVA). The only two new markets AA has entered have been Ireland (but it's not like DL withdrew from Ireland completely) and ZRH (only because of the LX codeshares, which are going away soon).

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
However, they were a well established global airline in the late 90's.

Really? Granted, the Pacific is weak now, but it's not like they were that strong back then either. I wouldn't call having only about 4-5 transpacifics daily a "well-established global airline"; it was certainly nothing when compared to the powerhouses like UA and NW. Latin America has only continued to grow since the '90s in terms of DL's presence. If you look at Europe, the number of destinations operated with DL metal may have dropped over the years, but the number of transatlantic flights has not decreased significantly.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
Besides ATL International O&D is nothing compared to JFK or LAX. Two cities where they had a sizable operation in the 90's.

Yes, everybody and their mothers know that O&D are much larger at JFK and LAX. However, everybody and their mothers are also vying for the NYC/LAX pie. Even though they had sizeable ops at both JFK and LAX, they were losing $$ there. You think DL dropped JFK-NRT and LAX-NRT for the fun of it? You think that after acquiring all the ex-PA TATL routes, they decided to drop some of them for the fun of it?

I'm not saying that DL did everything correctly in the past decade but it's an oversimplification to say that concentration on ATL is to blame. As for SLC, it at least gives DL a sizeable presence out West, something which both NW and CO are greatly lacking.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
Wow, I must have missed something. Seems like they have been fairly strong across the Atlantic since, I don't know, 1991? And didn't they have a huge Central/South American expansion circa 1998/99/00?

Apparently, you did. DAL is strong in numbers of pax carried not yield. DAL cutback Europe earlier this decade, not sure if it was Post - 9/11. Now DAL is returning to European destinations where AA and CO picked up after DAL discontinued service. DAL is attempting new markets in Latin America where CO and AA are well entrenched.



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 7):
Now DAL has decided to jump into the Int'l markets when it's a little late.

First you say they jumped into the int'l markets late. When that point is refuted, then you say, "well they are strong in terms of passengers carried but not in yield" (IIRC the strongest in terms of pax carried across the Atlantic for a US carrier; although CO may have surpassed them). Then you say they are going into cities they already served then abandoned, and now are opening up again because AA and CO are in there in Europe. Can you please tell me when DL served, from the US, cities like Kiev, Tel Aviv, Edinburgh, Johannesburg, Dakar, Quito, Managua, Sao Paolo (from JFK) etc. You can't, because it is all NEW SERVICE. But, then again, as an airline consultant, you already knew that.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
You also mention, they do not market it to soley serve ATL. Why are they so sensitive towards FL when they add service in ATL? DAL is so focused on ATL, they have lost sight of reality and now blaming pilots, oil and competion for losses and being in BK.

Not "so focused", more like "adequately focused". You continue your global gowth while maintaining an 85% share in ATL. Presumably YOU would want them to have a 100% share.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
Those markets have not changed, but by God everyone must go through ATL. Why???

Riiiight, as evidenced by the BDL-LAX, BDL-CMH, RDU-LAX, CMH-LAX, BOS-LAS, BOS-LAX, Northeast-Florida, Delta Shuttle, DCA-SAV, I could go on and on routes.


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6294 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Quoting Panamair (Reply 18):
Latin America has only continued to grow since the '90s in terms of DL's presence.

Maybe they are growing in LatAm.....but are they filling the plane? Are they making money?

CO & AA have this market sewn up with a loyal fan base....only crumbs remain



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3163 times:

[quote=Positiverate,reply=19]

Sounds to me like positiverate got denied an upgrade on Delta and now has a grudge with them.

Back to the orignal topic:

Has anyone else noticed that on SDQ from both JFK and ATL and STI from JFK Delta is not only going with the 757 but its going to be in an all coach layout! No more elite upgrades but this might be a wise move as I seriously doubt the market for Dom Rep. has medallion members. Adds capacity and it looks like they could even add another flight or two to these markets as most flights are already sold out for the summer months.

[Edited 2006-02-27 15:56:06]

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3141 times:

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 21):
Has anyone else noticed that on SDQ from both JFK and ATL and STI from JFK Delta is not only going with the 757 but its going to be in an all coach layout!

Which is due to the 757s being ex-Song 757s. The one-class layout will only be temporary, until DL is able to refit the Song 757s with a 26-seat F cabin, which will take a few months to complete.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22):
Which is due to the 757s being ex-Song 757s. The one-class layout will only be temporary, until DL is able to refit the Song 757s with a 26-seat F cabin, which will take a few months to complete.

Which begs the question, where's the extra two seats going? Current mainline DL 757s seat 24 in first...

Also are the song 757s going back to 31" pitch?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 23):
Which begs the question, where's the extra two seats going? Current mainline DL 757s seat 24 in first.

The two additional F seats will be in place of the F-Class closet, similar to row 1ABC on Song.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 23):
Also are the song 757s going back to 31" pitch?

From what I know, with the introduction of Song came thinner seats, so that the pitch will probably stay the same. Song has currently 154 seats in the main cabin, pretty similar to the 156 on most mainline planes, so imagine the pitch will stay at 33-34".


25 Positiverate : What are you talking about? I am defending them. Take the time to read my posts. [Edited 2006-02-27 16:48:10][Edited 2006-02-27 16:48:54]
26 FlyDeltaJets : At DL the ground employees are the last to hear any company news. It's only un-professional if you go by rumors, that's why I am trying to get fact.
27 Alitalia744 : Are they going to have an F-Class closet tho? It is nice when the F/A takes my coat. Perfect! As a frequent DL flyer, I find the 757 to be the most u
28 Jumbojet : I quoted the wrong user, sorry pal, let me correct the mistake [quote=AvConsultant,reply=16] Sounds to me like AvConsultant got denied an upgrade on
29 DAL767400ER : Well, if the layout will be similar to the Song layout, the closest will be in place of the galley that is on the left side in front of door 2, so ye
30 Positiverate : No worries at all.
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