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NH 773ER 53 Aircraft Order, Is It Gonna Happen?  
User currently offlineIntothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

In a few articles it has been mentioned that NH was intending on buying an additional 53 Boeing 773ERs to replace all older 777s and 747s, has there been any development here, is this going to happen? any information would be greatly appreciated.

cheers, Konstantin G.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6124 times:

I haven't seen anything about this since I read it here on A.net, but I fail to see why NH would wanna replace ALL their 777s with the -300ER. I think the PW-powered 200s and 300s used on domestic and regional routes will stay. For longhaul, they might wanna have an all 777-300ER fleet, eliminating the - PW-powered 200ERs, and the 747-400.

I think that they have stated that eventually their fleet will be 737s, 787s and 777s. Correct me if I'm wrong.


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3414 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6117 times:

I have heard that their fleet will evetually be 737, 787 and 777 aswell. I Suppose I could also see how eventually the older 777's might be phased out, but only after they acquire the 787s. Do they have any 7773ERs currently? How many A32Xs are in their fleet?

AA1818



God is a Trini...
User currently offlineIntothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

it was definately in atleast one newspaper article that there is a good chance that they would place this order at the Singapore air show this week, but I haven't heard of anything, to me it also doesnt make sense to replace new 777s with older ones, however if they would place a follow on order of lets say 35 to replace the 747-400s, yes i would understand this. Does anyone have any further information If this order will go through, I sure hope so.

User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5965 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 2):
Do they have any 7773ERs currently?

They currently have 3 773ERs in service. They also have 7 773s, 4 772ERs, and 16 772s. They have 2 772s, 3 772ERs, and 7 773ERs on order.

Its also interesting to note that the Boeing Order Site has them listed as ordering 2 GE 772s in 1995, which are still outstanding.

SOURCE: http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...pageid=m25064&RequestTimeout=20000


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5880 times:

All Nippons future fleet plan interestingly shows a single -undecided- type to replace all the 747s AND 777s, so I have my doubts regarding such a massive 773ER order. With many competitors getting A380s and a few likely getting the 747-8I I doubt NH will be competitive with 773s alone.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12060 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4848 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
With many competitors getting A380s and a few likely getting the 747-8I I doubt NH will be competitive with 773s alone.

Only a few of HN's competitors (other western Pacific/Asian airlines) are getting the A-380, but I don't think any airline has ordered the B-747-800, yet.

NH's direct competitor, JL, has not ordered either VLA, yet. But, I do see them eventually ordering the B-747-800.

How will only flying the B-777-300ER be a disadvantage for NH?

Seems obvious to me they want to settle their airline around just a few airplane types, the B-737NG, B-777-200ER/300ER, and B-787-800/900(?). For a good business model, that makes good sense to me. Flying fewer types means lower operating costs.


User currently offlineCIO666 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 4731 times:

ANA's current fleet
28 A320
7 A321
33 767-300
20 767-300ER
2 767-300F
16 777-200
4 777-200ER
7 777-300
3 777-300ER
1 747SR
1 747-200
12 747-400
11 747-400D

7 of the 767-300ERs are to be converted to 767-300BCF (Boeing Converted Freighters) by 2008.

The lone 747SR will be retired in March.

On order for ANA
2 767-300ER
2 767-300F
1 777-200
6 777-200ER
7 777-300ER
30 787-3
20 787-8

Source: March 2006 Airways magazine.

This article also states that ANA's fleet will eventually consist of just 3 types- 737NGs, 777s, and 787s, and that ANA carefully considered the A380 , but will focus on frequencies and service, rather than single aircraft capacity for now.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 4676 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
How will only flying the B-777-300ER be a disadvantage for NH?

the supposed "mine is bigger than yours, and the competition has the newest plane so we need it also" syndrome....

if anything, NH will add some 747-8's to the fleet, that's about it....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineYoungFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 4556 times:

I just read in Airways magazine that they are planning to have a fleet of 737, 777, and 787 like stated above. they want to fly to most asian routs w/ the 737s and maybe 787's. i hope the best of luck for them. they have quite an order for the 787's.
Dan



"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29671 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 4479 times:
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NH has moved from 744s to 773ERs on some of their "high-profile" routes like JFK-NRT and LAX-NRT.

Instead of chasing raw capacity, NH may have instead decided to fly less folks, but more profitably, by matching capacity to existing demand rather then buy the A388 or B748 and discount all three cabins to fill them up.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
NH has moved from 744s to 773ERs on some of their "high-profile" routes like JFK-NRT and LAX-NRT.

That is very true and this is the first i've read of NH looking to replace older a/c with new 773ERs. I hope they order some more here soon. I enjoy seeing the 773ER at LAX when I go home.


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Amazing!



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Quoting CIO666 (Reply 7):
8 A320
7 A321
33 767-300
20 767-300ER
2 767-300F
16 777-200
4 777-200ER
7 777-300
3 777-300ER
1 747SR
1 747-200
12 747-400
11 747-400D

7 of the 767-300ERs are to be converted to 767-300BCF (Boeing Converted Freighters) by 2008.

The lone 747SR will be retired in March.

On order for ANA
2 767-300ER
2 767-300F
1 777-200
6 777-200ER
7 777-300ER
30 787-3
20 787-8

Source: March 2006 Airways magazine.

Interesting that Airways forgot about the 737s. There are many on order...to replace the A320s.

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Photo © Masato Nakao



Over in the Japan Thread we were discussing how JL and NH don't make much profit with their 744s flying domestic. They are not bringing in the big business class/first class bucks because so many of their seats are sold by discount tour companies like JTB.

NH has a goal to break into the top 5 airlines in the world and eventually unseat SQ, TG and CX. One of their first steps is to streamline their fleet and create a competative product that meets the demand of East Asia and attracts foreign travelers. This includes the 737 for doing more frequency and to more destinations. Think of it as doing what CO does with 757s on US-Europe in Asia with 737s. The distance between Japan and China, Korea and Taiwan are not so far and the destinations plentiful so a 737 is just the equipment needed. The goal is to have point-to-point or Hub-to-point flights to more destinations with frequency making profit than trying to just meet the need companies like JTB.

The fleet will be 737, 787 and 777. That is the goal.
But if you break it down furthur you get
737 (Mostly NGs)
787-3
787-8
777-200ER
777-300ER

The rumor has it that the 744s flying domestic (HND-large market) are going and will be replaced by frequency using 787-3 and 777s. However the 737 is becoming the norm for frequency to new and more various destinations in Japan.

As for the 53 777-300ERs...I would think that it will be more conservative and they will order a few and then add a few more as needed. They are not EK.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Can anyone explain why everyone on A.net feels that if one airline orders the A380, all others must to be competitive? I'm not understanding that logic at all...maybe it's me?


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

NH order 53 773ER?
I fail to see a logic in an order of that magnitude.
First, there's not much expansion happening at NRT anytime soon. Putting even 10-15 773ERs into KIX & NGO within 5 years would constitute financial suicide.
773ERs on Japanese domestic routes makes about as much sense as WN deciding to order A380 for US domestic service.

Now if an ultra-low gross weight and de-rated engine version of the 773ER comes out, then it makes sense but it wouldn't be a 773ER.

A top off order for a handful of 773ER to replace its remaining 744s makes the most sense currently.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

There are only 2 majors in Japan and they are extremely conservative when shopping for planes. They are also watching each other's every moves closely so long as one doesn't move the other won't. Or on the other hand if one suddenly decides it wants the B748 the other will follow suit within weeks.

I dont see why ANA would buy a whole fleet of B773ER only to fly them on sectors < 1000Nm multiple times a day when a B773 "classic" will do the job. Their B742s are being replaced with B773 but Japanese carriers are like American carriers - they fly their planes to death~ So I don't see them replacing their B744s any time soon. They should have another 10 years at least flying for ANA given they are only just replacing their last B742s after 20+ years.

I also don't see the Japanese buying A388s. First the era of size prestige is over. If an airline don't realistically need the A388 they wont get it just to be able to own a few. The airlines in Japan are competing with the Shinkansen just like BA/AF with Eurostar. So no large scale increase in passenger numbers in the foreseeable future. Also the Japanese big 2 "prefer" Boeing products. Given a B748 and an A388 on the market it's quite clear who they will turn to. I still don't understand why they are so stubborn. The history between the 2 countries and its legacy is one thing but do Airbus products really not match their specs?



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1706 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

I asked a Boeing Sales Person about this some time ago, and he said it was a mistake when it was printed last year.

Cheers


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
Can anyone explain why everyone on A.net feels that if one airline orders the A380, all others must to be competitive? I'm not understanding that logic at all...maybe it's me?



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
the supposed "mine is bigger than yours, and the competition has the newest plane so we need it also" syndrome....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCIO666 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2459 times:

Centrair,

Airways did mention the 45 737NGs on order but since the article states that they will be flown by ANA affiliate Air Nippon, I did not include them in my post.  Smile


User currently offlineIntothinair From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 392 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 16):
I asked a Boeing Sales Person about this some time ago, and he said it was a mistake when it was printed last year.

Alright, that pretty much sums it up, I wasn't aware of this. But still, wouldn't it be a good idea to eventually replace 747-400s with 773ER, maybe 20?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29671 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2129 times:
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Quoting Intothinair (Reply 19):
Alright, that pretty much sums it up, I wasn't aware of this. But still, wouldn't it be a good idea to eventually replace 747-400s with 773ER, maybe 20?

Depending on when those 744s need replacing, and how NH load factors work out (New Style is a significant cabin upgrade to Super Style, so that should draw more passengers), Boeing's Y3 program might be an option...


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