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Big LH Long Range Order To Be Announced In March  
User currently offlineBolu340 From Spain, joined Jan 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16301 times:

LH will announce a big long range order in March which will affect as well A300600 Fleet.

Lets wait and expect big surprises!!

Best Regards

79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNirvarma From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16233 times:

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
LH will announce a big long range order in March which will affect as well A300600 Fleet.

Interesting, where may I ask did you hear this? Could you provide a source please.

TIA
NV


User currently offlineBolu340 From Spain, joined Jan 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16146 times:

Hi Nirvarma!

It´s a reliable LH internal source.

Best Regards


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30641 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16060 times:
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Well the A340-600HGW will be a given over the 777, if they are looking at that category.

This might also be the first passenger order for the 747-8I, since their A380s and A346s will probably not be appropriate for all existing 747 markets.

In the medium-sized widebody market, I'm guessing the A350 has the inside track due to LH's fleet of A330s and A340s. The A350-800 would make a good A340-300 replacement and the A350-900 would offer some growth room to markets not strong enough for an A340-600.

Not sure what they will do with the A300-600. I would guess more A321s? Don't think the 787-3 will be in the cards, but one never knows, I guess...

[Edited 2006-02-28 01:41:21]

User currently offlineAF-A319 From France, joined Oct 1999, 603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 16060 times:

I think this topic was discussed before. Basically, Lufthansa wants to select replacements for its A340-300s and 737-300s.

According to an article in the 20dec05 edition of FI:

-The widebody evaluation will basically be a A350 vs 787 competition.
-Despite having ordered 15 A380s, the 747-8 will be considered as well.

The article did not say anything about the 737-300s but I guess some new A32S could be easily added to the fleet.

Reminder:

-LH currently operates 33 733s, 29 735s and 29 A343s
-About the A340-300s at LH: the first one (D-AIGA) joined the fleet in 1993 and now has more than 57,000 flying hours - the last one (D-AIFF) was accepted in 2001 and approaches its 21,000th hour)

Edited: typo

[Edited 2006-02-28 01:35:48]

User currently offlineTifoso From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15928 times:

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
Lets wait and expect big surprises!!

Surprises? I don't see any. It's going to be Airbus all the way  Smile

I'm not too sure about the 748 either, after the CEO announced recently that they are going to order more A380s.


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15793 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
The A350-800 would make a good A340-300 replacement and the A350-900 would offer some growth room to markets not strong enough for an A340-600.

Aaaaaaaand you say this based on what?

The A350-8 is a direct compitition to the 787-9, and hence, it is an ideal 767/A300/A330-200 replacement. Not an A340-300 or A330-300 replacement, which would then be the territory of the A350-9.

787-8 210-250 Boeing
787-9 250-290 Boeing
787-10X 290+

A350-8 253 Airbus
A350-9 300 Airbus


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15766 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 6):
The A350-8 is a direct compitition to the 787-9

Can we please not mix Airbus and Boeing numbering schemes.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineEmirates Skies From Australia, joined Nov 2001, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15739 times:

I see this one going for Airbus rather than Boeing for the reason that LH seem to be going for an all-Airbus fleet.

Slightly off-topic, but do you think that Condor may need to replace its B767s in the medium-term?

Do you think that Condor might take up some of Lufthansa's A330s to replace the B767s when a replacement is due? Or do you think that Condor may be up to something completely different to that? Thx.



Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 15664 times:

Wouldn't the 787-3 be a good replacement for LH's A300s? They currently use them on shorter routes. A 787-8/9 or A350-800/900 would be too much of an airplane for those shorter routes, wouldn't they? Why would you have a plane that can fly half-way around the world fly 3 hour flights? The 787-3 isn't perfect but is closer to the A300's capabilities.

A300
Seating: 266
Range: 4,050 (4,150) nm (7,500 (7,700) km.)

787-3
Seating: 290 to 330 passengers
Range: 3,000 to 3,500 nautical miles (5,550 to 6,500 km)

There really isn't a good replacement for the A300. It seems airlines either need to add frequency with a smaller aircraft of go much bigger.

I am excited for March.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

I don´t believe that we will see the long range order in March, I really hope so that we do but honestly don�t believe it will be so soon.

I believe that we see a split order between Airbus and Boeing. Likely Airbus will get the bigger share but that must not be case.
Mayrhuber announced a few days ago that they are looking into to buy more A380 maybe that means no 747-8 but 787s.
I really hope for a 747-8 order by LH because I am a huge 747 fan and as a German I have some affection towards Lufthansa and I simply can not imagine a Lufthansa without 747s and 737s.
Lufthansa is deeply connected with the 747:


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and especially with the 737:


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Sadly the long history of LH and the 737 will end in a few years  crying ,
as it is very unlikely that the 737-300s will be replaced with -700s



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9170 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15169 times:

Two dates - the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23 and the AGM on May 17 are relevant. An announcement of the orders could be made on or before the press conference.

Ads to the A380 - LH has 15+5 on order with the first 15 spread oiut over 7 years until 2015. Even if they exercise the options for delivery before 2015 I do not see a need to re-order A380s this year and not before 2010.

Both the 747-8 and the 787 stand a good chance. If they replace the 30 744s with 747-8 that will be a sizable fleet and gove LH Cargo the option to order a smaller number as well.

The 787 in different versions can replace the A300 as well as the 340s and gives great flexibility for the future, plus lower fuel costs. Delievry slots are becoming scarce, LH has to make a decision this year and likely before the AGM.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15143 times:

Quoting Emirates Skies (Reply 8):
I see this one going for Airbus rather than Boeing for the reason that LH seem to be going for an all-Airbus fleet.

I don't no alot about LH but I don't no why people think that just because they havn't ordered any Boeings for quite a while. Personally I don't think its true that they are going towards an all Airbus fleet at all.

I think LH have quite a big need for the 747-8 and maybe the 787 aswell. The 787 or A350 will be used to replace the A300's, and can also operate longhaul routes. The A380 will seat around 500ish in a 3 class configuration the 346 seats around what? 340 in a 2 class configuration, the 748 will fill the gap seating just over 400 in a 3 class configuration , plus they will still have some 744's for another 10-12 years yet and something needs to replace these eventually other than A380's or 346's IMO.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15040 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
I don ´t believe that we will see the long range order in March, I really hope so that we do but honestly don´ t believe it will be so soon.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Two dates - the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23 and the AGM on May 17 are relevant. An announcement of the orders could be made on or before the press conference.

Okay the Annual Report press and analysts conference on March 23rd can be the date where LH could make the announcement, totally forgot about that possibility.

I also agree with the rest of your post.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 15019 times:

Quoting AF-A319 (Reply 4):
The article did not say anything about the 737-300s but I guess some new A32S could be easily added to the fleet.

Lufthansa has stated time and time again that the 737 fleet is too large and too well suited for replacement in the short term. They are keeping both narrowbody fleets intact and no replacement will happen until the A320NG and 737NNG come out

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
Wouldn't the 787-3 be a good replacement for LH's A300s?

They would be the perfect replacement.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14907 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
They are keeping both narrowbody fleets intact and no replacement will happen until the A320NG and 737NNG come out

As it seems Airbus and Boeing do not have the same plans as Lufthansa because both manufacturers are very reluctant to come up with a successor for their best selling products.
LH wants to replace the early A320 and 737s around 2010 maybe a little later.
If Airbus and Boeing will not launch a A320NG or 737NNG/797 anytime soon LH will have to buy new A319/A320/A321 or 737NGs as an interim solution.
Apart from LH only WN has demanded a 737 successor so it will be interesting to see which of the two manufacturers comes out first..........



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14338 times:

I have this hunch that they might go for Boeing, or a A and B mix...

Might go as Stitch says.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14275 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
They would be the perfect replacement.

Maybe the best available replacement, but hardly perfect...


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14244 times:

I don't know about the large aircraft side of it - I'd imagine the A380 will be selected, but the 747-8 has superb economics. However, the fact that the A380 is already ordered and LH probably doesn't want to operate a new type unnecessarily should ensure a 380 order.

That said, if LH offers a very good deal on both the 787 and the 747-8, I think it would be in a stronger position.

My own view is that if they want a single type to cover all the medium sized aircraft missions, then the 787 is the best choice by far; the 350 is no doubt a fine long hauler, but the 787 can fulfill many more missions:

A300-600 replacement: 787-3 (or more likely, 8)
A340 787-9/10.

Don't forget that (a) the 787-10 is expected to be launched in March with an EK order, and (b) can you think of a better signal Boeing could send out to potential customers than the A350 being rejected in favour of the 787 by one of the world's largest (if not the largest?) Airbus operator. The psychological value of that to Boeing can't be understated.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7090 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14075 times:

I see A300's being replaced with A321's.

There is no room within Europe for a widebodied short haul flying fleet.

Only LH, BA and KL have intra-european widebodied flying of the majors. BA is reducing their European 767 and 757 fleet, KL now only has a daily 767 to heathrow.

The remaining european scheduled carriers operating long haul in europe (OA, CY) are in desperate straits anyway - with the exception of EI who have a daily 330 to AGP.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12359 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14024 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 18):
I don't know about the large aircraft side of it - I'd imagine the A380 will be selected, but the 747-8 has superb economics. However, the fact that the A380 is already ordered and LH probably doesn't want to operate a new type unnecessarily should ensure a 380 order.

Let's see, the LH CEO says LH will be buying more A380s, and a Boeing rep says that they expect at least one passenger airline to order B747-8 this year. I think B needs an order from a prominent passenger airline badly, so I think the economics will be even better because B will sell at a very low price. B knows LH has a large 747 fleet, and knows if it gets a small order up front and the plane performs well, there probably will be follow-on orders. Also if LH goes to B747 it will make it easier for BA and CX to say yes. Of course, I have no idea what LH is thinking, and so am waiting for the very large a.net thread that will come after the LH announcement.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13959 times:

I would think that, as with Qantas, 787 orders are a certainty. If it performs as advertised, no airline can afford to be without it; if it doesn't, they don't need to take delivery. And, given the size of the order book, anyone who DOESN'T order now won't get any for many years.

The 748 is also a possibility - Boeing will be offering very attractive deals to early purchasers of the passenger version. And I don't expect that all Lufthansa's longhaul routes require more than 400 seats.

Be interesting to see if they order any 777s. They may still be smarting at Richard Aboulafia's famous gibe - "It could be said that anyone without a 777 either is not a serious player, or is Lufthansa."  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13928 times:

Quoting Bolu340 (Reply 2):
It´s a reliable LH internal source.

 sarcastic 



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineAirways45 From United Kingdom, joined May 2000, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13928 times:

It would make sense for Boeing to offer LH such a good deal on the 747 Advanced that they would be a fool not to take it... It would also give Boeing great PR since LH is also an A380 customer... If I was Boeing I would almost be giving 747-8 and 787s away to LH to keep Airbus away...

However, LH's A300 replacement shows there is no ideal replacement out there. The 787 and A350 have range that the A300 doesn't have. Why pay for range when you don't need it? Airbus decided a few years ago not to provide a replacement for the A300 / A310 line (short - medium haul high density aircraft). This was probably the correct decision, but it does leave LH with a problem - hence why their A300-600s are still flying.

Airways45


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7090 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13888 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
They may still be smarting at Richard Aboulafia's

Richard isn't biased or anything?  Smile

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 21):
787 orders are a certainty

LH need to replace the A300, and I cant see then going 787 to do this considering the short haul nature of these routes. I cant see them starting to replace the 343 just yet, unless they want to create a subfleet at MUC.



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 NA : While I would be surprised about an order so soon somehow I expect some Boeings to be ordered by LH this time. Because of two reasons: A. Boeing has n
26 NAV20 : Airways45, BestWestern, the 788 and 789 (the 8,000nm. types) seem to be getting most of the publicity. But the 787 range also includes the 783, which
27 Revelation : Others have argued that the 783 is too heavy to be considered a replacement to the A300, but the counter-argument is that there is no other modern pl
28 PM : Tell LH that. For the FRA-TXL shuttle alone they need bigger planes than the A321. Shortly to be an A330. If the long-haul order does happen (and the
29 SQNo1 : What about a EMB 175/190/195 order? With Regards, Alex.B
30 PanHAM : and not only TXL-FRA . There are a number of routes from FRA i.e. to LHR/MUC/HAM with multiple AB6 flights daily The extra space/capacity over the 32
31 KLMCedric : IB,SA,SK,AC(for now),QF(for now),QR,NW,... Kinda arrogant if you don't call these serious players, if you ask me!
32 Glom : So the bookies are giving good odds on: A330 for expansion 783 to replace A300 A346HGW because they already have loads 748I to replace 744 A388 becaus
33 Post contains images MBJ2000 : Do you imagine the shock if LH comes out with a totally different big bang?? A la AC?! Let's see: 1st) throw away all 73x narrowbodies and replace the
34 Drewfly : It hasn't been mentioned here but I wouldn't be surprised if LH Cargo ordered some 777Fs. After all, they did want more MD-11Fs, and maybe Boeing is o
35 Johnny : Hi Guys, would be great to have a A350 / B787 Decision of one of the bluechips this year. I heard, the decision will be published in September not in
36 NAV20 : Agree with most of that, but puzzled by the weight point, Revelation? Boeing website gives MTOW of the 783 at 360,000lbs., A.net A/C Data gives the A
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : wont' fill their 4 daily A300's which they send to LHR.... would be interesting to see if they order the A330's, but I think the odds are stacked aga
38 BestWestern : You brought up the example - let me disprove it! Only 25.4% of LH FRA TXL seat capacity is flown by A300 equipment. If all flights were operated by A
39 Post contains links Revelation : I'm going by the data in reply 18 of this recent thread: RE: Airbus A300-800 Or How To Compete With The 783? (by AndesSMF Feb 24 2006 in Civil Aviati
40 Post contains images PM : Fair enough! I flew the route several times in the late 1990s and it was ALWAYS an A300 (or an A310) and it was ALWAYS full. I haven't checked recent
41 Post contains images MBJ2000 : Now I know what the announcement will be!!! This is from a very reliable source inside LH. No new orders BUT: The whole long range fleet will have PTV
42 Keesje : LH does 10-20 daily flight with A300/310 between 10 biggest domestic cities. Interseting what these should be replaced with IMO Airbus and Boeing hav
43 Glom : In that case, it's time for a war between the cheerleaders of whichever two companies lead IFE.
44 NAV20 : Thanks for the reference, Revelation. Looks like the MTOWs are almost the same, the A306's OEW is 25,000lbs. less. To my mind, the question is, how mu
45 DIA : Mix of both A & B is the best guess here. Unless LH is to replace the A306 with new A306s...then the 783 is the best available replacement, taking int
46 Ken777 : This one will be an interesting A-v-B battle to follow. I think that LH will go with some 748s as the 380 is not the perfect plane for all routes. The
47 PanHAM : The airlines name is Lufthansa and not Interflug. LH has to provide the seats when people want to fly and not when the average seat is provided by th
48 Post contains images CityAirline : Would it then be possible for a n/s to MNL without the stop in CAN, since China is growing now and LH maybe was thinking about giving CAN an own flig
49 Post contains images Stitch : Great Circle Mappers says FRA-MNL is 6408nm at ETOPS-207, which I should think would be comfortably within the range of an A358 or A359 in LH's curre
50 Post contains images Columba : Can it be that you mixed up "can" and" can´ t" ? I am really having a hard time to understand what you mean with that. Mayrhuber and other LH mana
51 FlyinTLow : Just my two cents: I think they will go for the 787 and a further order for some more A380s. Yeah, you will prolly call me insane, but think about it:
52 Kaitak744 : I do agree for the most part. However, lets not rule out a possible 797 over the A320NG. Also, Lufthansa actually might not purchace 747-8Fs. They wi
53 Post contains links A319XFW : Pardon? Then you haven't really looked at the most obvious source. www.airbus.com Click on "Aircraft Families"; select the aircraft you want and then
54 USAF336TFS : Not crazy at all... There have been rumors inside and outside the company of just such an order. I don't think it's "if" but rather "when" it will ha
55 Columba : I doubt that LH would order the 797/737NGG if they would place a 787/747-8 order. Ordering a Boeing narrowbody in addition to -a very likely - 787 an
56 AA777223 : I find it odd that you say that, after all, Air France is one of Boeings greatest customers, especially in the highly lucrative widebody market, and
57 Post contains images Glareskin : You mean no serious airline or Lufthansa? I think the same applies for the A350. Changes are favorable for Airbus but in the end I believe LH (like m
58 PM : Really? Each country has indentical holdings in EADS. You are forgetting a dozen very new A330s. Certainly they have lots of 747s (as do all comparab
59 Columba : You forgot their A340-300s and A330-200s while I agree that sooner or later the A340-300 will leave the fleet AF is very happy with their A330-200s a
60 AA777223 : I realize the A330 and A380 will be the only airbus long haulers left. Considering the A330 is really optimized for more medium haul routes, This real
61 AeroPiggot : People seems to forget that LH was upset with Boeing when they decided to launch the 747-500/600 back in 1994-96. LH wanted the 747-8 back then, and t
62 Jacobin777 : add the A340-500....... you sure about that? from what I've read in number of places, QF is the only airline to be on the program who haven't ordered
63 AeroPiggot : I am pretty sure LH was part of the working together team, in Everett during that time.
64 Jacobin777 : would be interesting to find out if LH were indeed part of it, but I'm going to stick with what I've read, that so far, QF is the last remaning custo
65 Lp0815 : LH Cargo is interested in both, the 777F as well as the 747-8F. However, LH Cargo will not order any new a/c or replacement a/c before 2008/2009. Che
66 PADSpot : Last time LH ordered aircrafts to a larger extent the actual commitment of the deal was heralded by their (published) efforts to finance the deal. Be
67 PanHAM : @ PADspot - this here is certainly for entertainment but posting one's opinion is what a forum is about. Most of us know that these decisions are made
68 TriStar500 : While I usually agree with your assessments, you are wrong here. Due to the slot congestions at some of LH's major European gateways, LH has no other
69 PADSpot : I don't question that, but actual knowledge and personal opinion should be clearly marked as such. if it's all mixed up informational value approache
70 PanHAM : @PADspot - agree with the cash positions, that is basically what I meant, just tried to make it a bit shorter. Money is getting more expensive and the
71 LTU932 : If I'm not mistaken, LH already converted all of their 7 options for the A346 into firm orders, which should become A346X because the A346X is AFAIK
72 PADSpot : ETOPS 207 ??? You can easily reach MNL from FRA with ETOPS 120, which is a standard certification for the A330 and will be for the A350??? No need to
73 Lp0815 : Isn't it Mayrhuber? Or who are you referring to?
74 Post contains images Stitch : I cannot say if LH wanted the 745 and/or 746, but the price was so high that if they did, they were probably the only ones. And while LH did express
75 Post contains images Keesje : The new LH 744 lay out is 330 seats. . So a new 747-8 following the same productspecification probably 370 seats and a A380 following this product sp
76 Post contains links Stitch : I went with the numbers off LH's web page at http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/ueber_uns/flotte/ for the seating of the B744 (390) and A346 (345),
77 Keesje : 165 seats is indeed a large gab between A346 - A380 and would even be bigger in comparable 3 class a346 config. So a 747-8 might fill a network requi
78 Bolu340 : LH will operate again AB6 on medium/long range routes due to A/C shortage. 4 AB6 will be refurbished and start operating end 2006 or summer 2007. Even
79 PM : I repeat my earlier suggestion that LH may buy more A330s...
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