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Cellphones Are A Hazard - Study  
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

A study by Cargenie Mellon University researchers has found that cell phones and other devices can interfere with cockpit instruments and cause dangerous situations, although they do admit that there hasnt been a documented case where this has happened yet.

Thoughts?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06060/662669.stm

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

I thought I heard that passengers would soon be able to use cell phones on flights- signal transmits to an antenna on the a/c which relays the signal to the ground network.


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

keep the ban....its bad enough as it is.


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8189 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

I use cell phones while flying Cessnas and we use the same instrumentation as the jetliners, for the most part. Although granted the big jets have much more complex systems. I think it's a load of crap but it doesn't matter, cell phones don't work on fast-moving high-flying airliners anyway.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16990 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
I think it's a load of crap but it doesn't matter, cell phones don't work on fast-moving high-flying airliners anyway.

First of all if a cellphone is on it can cause interference regardless of whether it is actually connected to a base station.

Secondly, in flight cell phone use would entail a base station on the airliner.

Thirdly, if cell phone use is permitted, I would like quiet zones where it is prohibited, just like on many trains.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8189 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2442 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Thirdly, if cell phone use is permitted, I would like quiet zones where it is prohibited, just like on many trains.

Heck with that, they shouldn't be permitted at all. I've been in the terminal 3 gates away from some girl on her phone and I can hear her every word!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineCpos From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

I'm not in favor of cell phones on airliners. From my heavy experience taking Amtrak from Boston to NY, the trains have become moving conference rooms. The Quiet car works to a point....but it forces the conductors to be policemen. I enjoy flying so much more because I don't need to listen to Bob's conference call and Jill arguing with her Mother about her boyfriend.

Just imagine sitting on a 737 in 15B between two cell phone crazy PAX. Ugg.

Just my 2 cents.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16990 posts, RR: 67
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Thirdly, if cell phone use is permitted, I would like quiet zones where it is prohibited, just like on many trains.

Heck with that, they shouldn't be permitted at all. I've been in the terminal 3 gates away from some girl on her phone and I can hear her every word!

You have a point. But with all the background noise you won't hear her that clearly on a plane. Then again, that probably means she'll just yell louder. Big grin



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
I use cell phones while flying Cessnas and we use the same instrumentation as the jetliners, for the most part. Although granted the big jets have much more complex systems. I think it's a load of crap but it doesn't matter, cell phones don't work on fast-moving high-flying airliners anyway.

My Nokia GSM (T-Mobile) definitely causes harmful interference in the Cessnas that I fly...mostly over the headset audio (a funny "buzzing" sound). I definitely wouldn't want to be IFR in IMC with the thing on.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

The real danger from cell phones is users who think they can multi-task but cannot.

The real annoyance is from people who cannot accept the fact that the rest of the world does NOT want to hear their conversation!!

If you think passengers are on edge now, just wait until they have to listen to someone's "important" call for an hour...  banghead 

KEEP THE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAsgeirs From Iceland, joined May 2001, 516 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2175 times:

I'm in favor of keeping the in-flight cellphone ban, mostly because of the annoyance that would be caused if everyone would be talking on the phone.

If every passenger on a plane had their cellphones turned on, then they might have some unwanted effect on the aircraft's systems. However, I don't think that a handful would do any harm. Look at it this way - On each flight there is probably usually at least one person who forgets to turn his cellphone off or doesn't know how to do it correctly - and there have no incidents (yet) been traced to cellphones being turned on.



Reykjavik Aviation Photography - Just bring the aircraft to us and we'll photograph them! :-)
User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2171 times:

I cannot imagine anything worse than being on a flight with the person beside me having a conversation on their mobile.. the constant polyphonic ring tones going off all around the cabin.. text messages the lot! Nightmare.

I have noticed that alot of US airliners have phones in every centre seat- as far as I'm aware, this is not done at all in Europe, apart from inseat phones in J on 777/747/340. Any ideas why this didn't catch on in Europe?



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
I use cell phones while flying Cessnas

I don't want to discourage you from doing so, specially on a Cessna-kind of aircraft. It is a very useful extra resource that comes pretty handy when things go wrong.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
I use cell phones while flying Cessnas and we use the same instrumentation as the jetliners, for the most part.

No. For the most part, what you share with a new generation airliner is the guys you talk on the radio to. Not much more. I have experienced complete ILS localizer deflection and glideslope false beams thanks to some idiot using the cell phone back there. And this was on an aircraft (oldie 737-200) which is closer to share some instrumentation with your airplane.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
I think it's a load of crap but it doesn't matter, cell phones don't work on fast-moving high-flying airliners anyway.

As a matter of fact they COULD work. The technology used before GSM could often get signal over large cities.

And it's not a load of crap. It is the law. As a pilot you might find interesting the following review on Hazardous Attitudes (part of your CRM training):

Hazardous Thinking/Antidote:

a. Invulnerability - Denial, "It can't happen to me."
Start thinking about the unthinkable.

b. "Can Do" - Macho attitude (Risk taking to impress others.)
Recognize risk taking as foolish behavior.

c. Impulsivity - "Do something fast!"
Stop! Think! Select the "best" course of action.

d. Anti-authority - "Don't tell me what to do."
Follow the rules. They are often right.

e. Resignation - "What's the use? Nothing I do makes any difference."
"You CAN make a difference."

RM  Wink Keep the blue side up!



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Keep the ban. You have to deal with everyones loud phone calls and annoying 15 year old gals drama. I dont want to hear this on a plane. Please...keep the ban.


Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineCIO666 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

Keep the ban! Can you imagine trying to watch an in-flight movie while half the plane is loudly talking on cell phones? Allowing cell phone use on crowded airliners would certainly lead to an increase in air rage incidents and passenger vs. passenger confrontations. In-flight fist-fighting over cell phone etiquitte could become quite a passenger/flight crew safety issue.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting CIO666 (Reply 14):
Keep the ban! Can you imagine trying to watch an in-flight movie while half the plane is loudly talking on cell phones? Allowing cell phone use on crowded airliners would certainly lead to an increase in air rage incidents and passenger vs. passenger confrontations. In-flight fist-fighting over cell phone etiquitte could become quite a passenger/flight crew safety issue.

I could care less about the conversations. But I don't want to hear a hundred annoying ring tones.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineEdelag From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Didn't the victims of Sep 11, use their cellphones while mid flight, and I did not hear that their attitude or altitude instruments went off.

And on a flight I took on a Rayethon 800XP I forgot to turn off my cellphone and I did not crash and I did land an ILS approach to MTY.



It's not just the destination, it's the journey.
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Quoting Edelag (Reply 16):
And on a flight I took on a Rayethon 800XP I forgot to turn off my cellphone and I did not crash and I did land an ILS approach to MTY.

You did? 13-15 years according to your profile... Boy, and I thought Doogie Howser was a genius.

Quoting Edelag (Reply 16):
Didn't the victims of Sep 11, use their cellphones while mid flight, and I did not hear that their attitude or altitude instruments went off.

The magic little word here is: MIGHT. It MIGHT cause interference with the equipment on board.... Come on, discuss that to the guys at Cargenie Mellon University and let us know how you did.

RM  Yeah sure



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineEdelag From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting Fly727 (Reply 17):
You did? 13-15 years according to your profile... Boy, and I thought Doogie Howser was a genius.

Its always nice that your parents work in this big companies that buy planes as if they were pencils, and you parents get to go to cities on business and they bring you along. And Doogie Howser is a genius.



It's not just the destination, it's the journey.
User currently offlinePurdueAv2003 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 250 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting Edelag (Reply 16):
Didn't the victims of Sep 11, use their cellphones while mid flight, and I did not hear that their attitude or altitude instruments went off.

And on a flight I took on a Rayethon 800XP I forgot to turn off my cellphone and I did not crash and I did land an ILS approach to MTY.

It's not a 100% certainty. The study shows that there is the "potential" for interference. Have you ever noticed that at your office or home, you may have full signal one day, but the next day you only have "two bars"? There are a large number of factors that weigh into whether the EMI actually causes a problem. I pray the NTSB never has to attribute the cause of a crash to Joe Schmo who thought his conversation was more important than the lives of everyone on board.

I support issuing detection equipment to the F/A's, as the study suggests. During there final checks, walk down the aisle and make sure their phones are off. First time, kindly ask, as some people do honestly forget to turn them off since they don't pay attention to the safety briefing (another issue all together). Second time, nail them for disobey flight crew instructions. Treat them just like the fools that disable smoke detectors.



Ptu = Ftu X Anet (not to be confused with a.net)
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1982 times:

Quoting Edelag (Reply 18):
Its always nice that your parents work in this big companies that buy planes as if they were pencils, and you parents get to go to cities on business and they bring you along. And Doogie Howser is a genius.



RM  expressionless 



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Its also a mental thing when taking metro north in the morning to NY every day I can drown out the trophy wives who are headed into NY for shopping and are just yapping away and so can most everyone else, even if in the morning and at the end of the day its just a pain. But the difference is with a cell phone you can't do that as all you hear are 1 ended responses. No 2 way conversation which to a human Psychy its almost a command format. Making it so your involved. Its an annoyance, luckily on Metro North most (certainly not all) understand you gotta work and certainly try their best to talk on the cell phone (not to mention reception is bad overall as well). But planes would be disatrous as unlike commuting trains its not only longer (more time away from office), but its usually not ending up with you going to the office. Sometimes its the start of your vacation so they will be trying to squeeze every last office hour in. It would certainly be painful.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9176 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

This is just from my experience, but my cell phone actually interferes with my TV, computer, even my car radio. Whenever someone's trying to call or text me while I am watching television, I can tell even before the phone rings. Two seconds before the phone rings, my TV will make a buzzing noise, the same thing with my computer and car radio. Then, again, that's just based on my experience...

And, I'll be damned. That was on in today's paper (on today's webpage) and I didn't even see it. I'm on there everyday...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineMTY2GVA From Switzerland, joined Nov 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Cellphones can cause cancer too. I have talked on cellphones during flight in fact the pilot helped me get to the window with the best reception. I mean of course cellphones can cause interference, we all know that its nothing new.


Tengo orgullo de ser del norte del mero San Luisito...
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

I don't think I'd like a plane full of cell phones... yes, I talk on my cell phone in public, but I try to talk as quietly as possible so as not to bother people around me... I also tell the person to hold on for a moment if I need to talk to someone else.

Now, what we must also consider is that certain phone technologies cause different levels of interference...

My old Nokia 5100 I never had any problem with at all. But now I have a Motorola RAZR (GSM)... and it, and every other GSM phone I've had, wreaks havoc with any other signal emitting or receiving device in my house when it's in use. That includes everything from the wireless keyboard to the LCD monitor, to the 15 year old "boom box" radio.

And then consider the added signals of bluetooth headsets and accesories... well, that possibly adds a whole different set of complications with signals.

In the end, there's not much important enough in life that I see the need to allow Cell phone use on planes in the air.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
25 Starlionblue : I agree with the rest of the interference, but Bluetooth is very weak and only has a range of about 30 feet with line of sight if the stars are align
26 RichardPrice : No, Bluetooth has a *usable* stepped datarate over 30ft, its signal actually goes out a fair bit further but at such low datarates theres no stepping
27 Kalvado : OK, guys, there is one thing I don't understand: if cell phone can cause troubles with eqipment, how bad would be "legal" interference from radars (th
28 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Very inappropriate and insensitive example to prove your point.... Rather than crowing about it, consider yourself lucky that yours was not that one
29 RichardPrice : Two different things. The IFE is supposed to be grounded or shielded from inteference, so if any shorts do cause electromagnetic radiation its suppos
30 Gr8Circle : A simple exercise just to understand how powerful are the signals emitted by a cellphone.... Keep your cell next to a computer with a CRT display moni
31 SeeTheWorld : I AGREE! Passengers are going to kill each other if cell phone usage is allowed. It'll be a flying nightmare.
32 Byronsterk : Well, i suppose it could be alright IF it was only used on silent mode and only to send and receive SMS messages, and to use GPRS internet connection
33 NorthStarDC4M : ok well just let me add this: As someone who supports GSM/GPRS/EDGE network devices, i can tell you they WILL interefere with any of the following in
34 Byronsterk : Didn't Lufthansa do a research on this? and said that is was no hazard?
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