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Who Gets What From NW If......  
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8033 times:

I know its be discussed before but not recently, who get what if or when NW goes under. Who would take the major cities and routes. Who gets the A/C, and what of the mega code share with KL?

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly4Ever From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

If NW were to liquidate, my first guess is that UA would try its best to secure as much of the pacific routings it could obtain and flights from the NRT base to up UAL's flights already. Not sure about aircraft though, would assume that US would be interested in the A330's. Good question though.

User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

The hubs are screwed. DTW might be courted with the new terminal, but that's about it.


Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineJpj777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7944 times:

Just go to all three hubs and take the "North" name out and replace it with "South"  Smile

User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

Quoting Fly4Ever (Reply 1):
If NW were to liquidate, my first guess is that UA would try its best to secure as much of the pacific routings it could obtain and flights from the NRT base to up UAL's flights already.

hmmm..... I'm thinking CO would put up a fight for those routes, though.

Quoting Jpj777 (Reply 3):
Just go to all three hubs and take the "North" name out and replace it with "South"

 rotfl  How true, but you can definatly kiss goodby anything intl.



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineNitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 469 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

The famous DC-9s go to the sandbox, , , DC-10's RIP old friends , , 757 don't know ?? 747 freighters ,,hello Mr. Kallita,! ! ,, 747-400s to the guys that get the NRT 'stuff"
Tha 330s & skinny buses to everywhere, I hear everybody wants them, make a call to
the Emirates! Maybe some buyers care about engines ,seats,, or,,help me out ?
I think AA would pick the Asian bones, tell me who takes MSP or DTW,,,  listen 


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7895 times:

I really think US would make a hard run for those 330's and some of the 752s. Maybe even a focus city in MSP or DTW, or by some stretch SEA to possibly start up NRT runs. Who knows, but it should be interesting. The biggest people to benifit from NW tanking would be UA due to less competion in the midwest, west and far east. US for cheap A/C and some routes. Last but not least WN for...well you know.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11436 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7856 times:

Quoting Fly4Ever (Reply 1):
If NW were to liquidate, my first guess is that UA would try its best to secure as much of the pacific routings it could obtain and flights from the NRT base to up UAL's flights already.

No way. Not only would UA never be able to afford it, but the government would never allow United to take over Northwest's Asian network, as it would put UA into the enviable position of controlling 81% of the U.S.-Asia market. AA, on the other hand, has both the money and the lack of monopolistic tendancy to be able to easily slide in and buy Northwest's Asian network.

All of this is, of course, a huge hypothetical, which I think has been made all the more unlikely because of NW's recent concentual agreements reached with its pilots and FA unions.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4865 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

One of the few good things that could come from NW going under would be the elimination of the weekly "When are NW replacing their DC9s" threads  Wink

That said I really hope things don't come to that. I've had some great memories on NW.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7732 times:

I'm sure CO would eat up the 753s if the worse were to happen. Wonder if they would beef up operations in CLE to take some of the midwest traffic.

User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Quoting Jpj777 (Reply 3):
Just go to all three hubs and take the "North" name out and replace it with "South" Smile

And how about a nice corporate headquarters location?  banghead 



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineFlyingfool From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 433 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7704 times:

No further discussions possible, I get all!!!  Wink

User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7704 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
all the more unlikely because of NW's recent concentual agreements reached with its pilots and FA unions.

So far only an agreement with the F/A's union, still needs to be voted on by the members.

From: http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060301/1234688.html?.v=4

bizjournals.com
NWA, flight attendants reach deal
Wednesday March 1, 6:08 pm ET

Meanwhile, Northwest continues to negotiate with its pilots union. That union's contract could still be voided by the bankruptcy judge.

Pilots still in talks, they are the group I would be most concerned about if I were NW mgmt.

I would think AA would have the best chance of picking up Asian routes, myabe CO, IF NW did go bye-bye, whoever bought the Asian routes would most likely have to take some or all of the 744's maybe some A330's to start service right away. Sort of like DL buying Pan Am Europe routes with A310's or UA buying Pan Am's Asian routes with 747SP's and L1011's.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7694 times:

SEA could get real interesting without NW...I'd imagine we'd see KL jump on AMS-SEA, maybe additional Seattle-Hawaii frequencies added by HA, possibly a second UA flight on SEA-NRT (or maybe a Japanese carrier?), AS adding MSP, DTW and maybe MEM as soon as they have the metal...Where the planes go is anyone's guess.


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7663 times:

I have a feeling that the routes will be divided up among airlines. Maybe CO and AA will gets some routes and 5th freedom with limitations. Maybe they say that CO and AA get half of the total routes but only 1/3 of the 5th freedom rights our of NRT. Then they allow a little more out of KIX and NGO. Some other slots at NRT would be given off to other carriers that want access like EK.

Maybe US will fight for a few routes as well.

Watch for NH to really boost things.

As for fleet. It is just too hard to tell what would happen. We all know the DC9s are gone but the A330s would get sent all over the world.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

In terms of NW and the domestic ops., their hubs are not huge O/D markets, most people are connecting passengers, they can connect anywhere on any other carrier, example, for DTW and MSP, go AA, UA, or WN through ORD/MDW. AA or WN through STL, CO through CLE, DL through CVG. Most passengers probably could care less about which of those cities they change planes in. ATL and STL would most likely see the larrgest boost from MEM closing up as a hub.

From MSP, DTW, and MEM I would see the legacy carriers adding a few more daily flights to hubs, or upgrade to mainline on some routes. NK expand in DTW, WN start service/expand in all three, FL boost service to MEM and MSP. This would also stimulate some price increases as removing approx. 7-9 % of domestic capacity over-nite should help the rest of the carriers greatly.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

Quoting Fly4Ever (Reply 1):
my first guess is that UA would try its best to secure as much of the pacific routings it could obtain and flights from the NRT base to up UAL's flights already.

There's a little thing called the U.S.-Japan Bilateral, which specifies that the U.S. may have two incumbent carriers, with full rights to operate any flight, with any frequency, between any two city pairs between the U.S. and Japan.

United already has incumbent status, it does not need Northwest's (the other named incumbent carrier). United *may* seek some of NW's slots, however.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 14):
I have a feeling that the routes will be divided up among airlines. Maybe CO and AA will gets some routes and 5th freedom with limitations.

You can't just split up the rights of an incumbent carrier. It will go in whole to another carrier.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

Doesn't MSP have pretty good O&D numbers?


L10/D9S/D10/M80/M88/732/733/734/735/73G/738/72S/757/762/763/320/319/318/ERJ
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7589 times:

MSP and DTW could be completely devistated. DTW especially - smack between CLE and ORD and a whole lot of new investment debt, not a good place to be. MSP, perhaps someone would jump in. Frontier getting scrappy and picking up some buses? Midwest cornering the "Midwest" and mixing it up with the DC-9's (they could be the biggest gainer from it)? You never know.... Either way, what an incredibly nasty mess for those two cities. If no one jumps in.. Total Carniage.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 18):
DTW especially - smack between CLE and ORD and a whole lot of new investment debt, not a good place to be.

I could see CO expanding into the void left at DTW, and ditching CLE.


User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 8):
One of the few good things that could come from NW going under would be the elimination of the weekly "When are NW replacing their DC9s" threads

That said I really hope things don't come to that. I've had some great memories on NW.

Other then those threads, I also have good memories with NW. Don't die yet, NW!

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 9):
I'm sure CO would eat up the 753s if the worse were to happen.

the 757s (CO), A330s (US) , A320s (everywhere), 747s (cargo and asia), and DC-10s (cargo) will be sold in a heartbeat

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 9):
Wonder if they would beef up operations in CLE to take some of the midwest traffic.

Pop that champagne!  champagne 

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 15):
NK expand in DTW

The real wildcard..... could NK become a 2 hub airline and grab as many A320s as possible? NK will be an interesting airline to watch just like FL if DL folds.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 19):
I could see CO expanding into the void left at DTW, and ditching CLE.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please CO, CLE loves you! *looks at mayor attempting to get a new manager* Screw it, RUN, CO, RUN!



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineWaterpolodan From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1649 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Maybe it's been discussed previously, but what would happen to NW's 787 order?

User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7492 times:

Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 21):
Maybe it's been discussed previously, but what would happen to NW's 787 order?

Someone will take the slots/planes. Similar to when AZ cancled their 744 order a few years ago and VS picked up the planes.



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineDC10GUY From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

I could see Fedex picking up the 757's. And maybe UPS & Fedex fighting over Northwest's cargo slots. I feel very sure Fedex will be buying some airlines fleet of 757's... Delta's ? Maybe. Northwest's ??? I'd put money on it.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

Quoting Fly4Ever (Reply 1):
If NW were to liquidate, my first guess is that UA would try its best to secure as much of the pacific routings it could obtain and flights from the NRT base to up UAL's flights already

American Airlines would grab if they can the slots/routes for DTW-NRT to add a second daily ORD-NRT flight, SFO-NRT. Chicago could easily gain new service to Amsterdam.

Continental Airlines would grab if they can the slots for LAX-NRT, HNL-NRT, NRT-HKG, NRT-BKK, NRT-SIN. Cleveland may finally see service to the likes of Amsterdam, Honolulu, London, and Paris.

Delta Airlines would grab if they can the slots for JFK-NRT, MSP-NRT could be transferred to operate a CVG-NRT flight. Salt Lake could finally see service to Paris, and Amsterdam.

United Airlines would grab if they could the slots/routes for NRT-CAN, NGO-MNL, KIX-MNL.

US Airways would grab if they could the slots/routes for the second DTW-NRT flight and transfer it to PHL-NRT or PHX-NRT. The DTW-NGO transferred to PHX-NGO or PHL-NGO. It is possible to see a 747-400 program rolled into the US Airways network as a stop gap until newer aircraft could be ordered. Phoenix and Las Vegas might fast track to Europe with the addition of London, or Frankfurt from either.


Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 6):
I really think US would make a hard run for those 330's and some of the 752s

The 330's may fit mroe than well so as that the 767-200 being operated to Venice, Milan, Barcelona, Munich, Amsterdam, Stockholm, and Madrid can be used for high density domestic service such as LAX-PHL, PHX-PHL, LAS-PHL, LAS-LAX, PHX-LAX, LAS-PHX, PHX-HNL, LAS-HNL.. The 752's could be useful to enable an expanded operation from Phoenix to Central America, Las Vegas to Central America. Also if the aircrafy had the legs additional service from Philadelphia to the likes of Brussels, Geneva, Berlin, Copenhagen, Oslo, Birmingham, and Central America.


25 Post contains links AeroWesty : You really need a better understanding of the U.S.-Japan Bilateral, and differentiate between "routes" and "slots". I've posted this before, but it's
26 Post contains images Nitrohelper : What? NW is getting rid of the DC-9s,who said that ? I say not until 2012. what would they replace them with ? A baby jet ? maybe the 797? Hmm, sounds
27 CIDflyer : I could see this as well, as there is more room to expand there. I could also see maybe US pick up MSP or DTW and some of the airbuses to get the mid
28 MalpensaSFO : The routes were suggestive, the slots in the case of a bankruptcy or liquidation bring an entirely different game into play. If Continental were to "
29 Ikramerica : If CO were to take Asia, they would need planes to fly there. There is no real reason that they couldn't take some 757s and all the 332s from NW. The
30 MalpensaSFO : How hard would it be to fluff up the NWA A320 and 757 that are without IFE?
31 AeroWesty : For the Japan routes, that's how it was done with Pan Am/UA, and UA even picked up the aircraft to fly the routes as well. From my understanding, the
32 DeltaRules : Aren't a few of their older A320s IFE-equipped but never used? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought I saw that on here once. DeltaRules
33 Bennett123 : The DC10 have about 125K on the clock and IMO will be sold for parts only. The DC9 you never know, I recently saw an ex US DC9 in Egypt, now Air Memph
34 PSA727 : I'm not sure if you can separate the Fifth Freedom Rights and NRT landing slot allocations. I mean, who would want to acquire those rights but not hav
35 Ikramerica : But with a viable plan like expanding into lucrative Asia, CO could raise the capital to do it. Contract a leasing company to buy the A332s and 757s
36 AeroWesty : Again, you should really read the article I linked. UA already has virtual parity with NW (there may be some 5ths one has the other doesn't, I'm not
37 AeroWesty : I absolutely agree with that statement. I don't believe AA is exclusively the only carrier able to raise the resources, or the interest, to take over
38 SWALUVFA : I could definitely see AirTran sub-leasing as many a/c from Ryan International and Miami Air as the unions allow, and expand into MSP and DTW very qui
39 HunUtazo : AMR/nwac CAL/ual LUV/dal parts LCC/dal parts/ualbus
40 AA777 : I feel like AA would love to get some more of the trans-pac routes since they are very profitable, but I have no idea if thats possible given the lack
41 Revelation : Lack of monopolistic tendancy? Have you been reading the zillions of Wright Amendment posts?
42 Ewr756 : Unlikely as NW 757s have P&W engines; US have RR. Again, unlikely. NW = P&W; CO = RR See above response. No way CO would want 332s. Unlikely CO would
43 Ewr756 : AGAIN, not likely. P&W vs. RR
44 Byronsterk : Perhaps KL would be interested in some of their Airbus a/c, Air France is pushing KL more and more to the Airbus side
45 Jdwfloyd : US merged w/ HP and their Airbuses have different engines. When you are hard up with A/C to expand to profitable routes like Central America, Hawaii,
46 Hiflyer : IF..and that is a big IF...NWA shut down a few things would probably occur, IMHO 1 it would be the end of the DC9 thread...grin 2 the pacific package
47 AA777223 : I bet if this happened, we would see some of the 777s pulled from european and south american routes, and used until the rest of their order could be
48 Commavia : Wright has nothing to do with this. I was referring specifically to the Pacific network. AA could buy NW's Asian network and still control less than
49 Ikramerica : The 333s could go to US, but they don't fly 332s. The A320s could be placed anywhere in the world, but I don't know that any USA carrier needs to exp
50 Post contains images Malaysia : I'll take the planes and lobby for 8th freedom rights in Japan
51 AeroWesty : UA can't buy, for love nor money, NW's incumbent carrier status in the U.S.-Japan market. UA already has incumbent status, and an alternate carrier w
52 Alias1024 : Beacause the A330's are Airbuses. Even though the 777 and 767 fleets are small, it isn't too big a deal because a lot of the parts are interchangable
53 AeroWesty : It wasn't that big of a deal for UA to assume a fleet of L-1011's or DL to assume A310's when they both took over a chunk of Pan Am's routes. Eventua
54 PHLBOS : I could see DHL grabbing some of these old birds.
55 Wdleiser : Aren't the NW slots in NRT, Japans concern. Can the US govt. have any say on who Japan sells the slots too?
56 PanAm330 : CLE would be gone, and fast. The 753s would most likely not be taken up, either, due to the PW engines. The fleet is not large enough to be worth it.
57 RL757PVD : I dont really hear NK being mentioned. If the some of the Airbii are compatable, I can see NK building DTW a little, granted it wouldnt be a NW sized
58 MarkATL : I'm a little confused. Isn't most of the non DC-9 fleet leased or otherwise pledged? If so, all this talk about who gets what is somewhat moot. The ow
59 Post contains images Indy : It will be the start of "What will happen to the old NW DC9's?"
60 Alias1024 : Maybe not, but the A300 was not liked at CO headquarters. It was a maintenance nightmare for them. I was exagerating (but only a little) when I said
61 Nitrohelper : What,,, did I hear something about DC-9s ? They are flying till 2012 (My Vote) {BOX}
62 GoCOgo : Moving hubs is no doubt an expensive and difficult proposition, especially when you have better than 9 years of lease left at your old hub, as CO doe
63 NWA744TPA : After watching NWA in action for eighteen years as a FA/PURSER, this seems to be laying the groundwork for an eventual merger with DL. The lower wages
64 Jdwfloyd : The more I think about it the more it make sense. If NW were to tank it would'nt be a bad idea for US to start a focus city in MSP. It would'nt be any
65 Tornado82 : DTW is so close (by air) to PIT that they wouldn't really gain much going gangbusters at a new establishment like DTW as opposed to just staying (or
66 Cubsrule : It's not been mentioned yet, but I would look for KL metal on all the current NW AMS routes as soon as they can get their hands on the aircraft to do
67 Bennett123 : Whilst I can see some of the B747-200 going for cargo, some IMO are simply too old, e.g. N613US/20358 and N615US/20360 both built in 1971. I also have
68 Jdwfloyd : I know DTW is too close to the rest of the system, that is why I said MSP not DTW.
69 Tornado82 : Oooops. My bad, sorry about that. I guess I really wasn't awake yet this morning when I came to work, haha. Sorry again.
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