TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 18836 times:
'The RS/Y1 concept is likely to be based around an all-composite 787-like structure, fly-by-wire, more-electric system architecture, EVS-integrated avionics flightdeck, and a cabin cross-section “wider than A320”. Aerodynamic improvements include a wing of increased span, single-slotted flaps, raked and blended-winglet wingtip options, blended fin root and 787-like Section 41 (nose) and flightdeck.'
They might as well call it 787-200. Here they come Airbus, watch out.
Normally I find the whole A vs B thing distasteful but in this case it will be interesting. My guess is that it will come down to price as the two types will be equally matched in size and performance. Boeing should have a slight boost as this will be their second "composite" aircraft, But Airbus will have it's A400M knowlage to help.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10064 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18508 times:
The race for the next-generation bread-and-butter aircraft, the "Golf"-class of the air, has been opened. Thanks for posting the link. Interesting that the article mentioned that the next project after this will be replacing the 777. That would logically happen between 2015-20 then. I always thought Boeing wanted a joint 747/777 replacement. That was at least what Boeing itself said up until now.
Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2): I guess Airbus has something up their sleeve about upgrading A320 series...
Hmm, I remember once when Airbus was designing this new, much more advanced airplane, and Boeing had something up their sleeve about upgrading the 737, how did that turn out?
It's basically a miracle 737-300/400/500 sold as well as it did against A320, because even is 737 was/is on some routes cheaper to run, it's a generation behind in technology (except the engines, which are basically common between A320 and 737). 737-600/700/800/900 competes well against A320, actually besting their airbus in some aspects, but it debuted a decade after A320.
Moral of the story, if all airbus has up their sleeve is refitting A320 with a slightly refined wing, a few weight saving materials, and new engines, they better watch out, because an all composite, ground up new 787 style 737 replacement is just going to be better. Just like A320 was against 737-300/400/500
Quoting NA (Reply 11): I always thought Boeing wanted a joint 747/777 replacement. That was at least what Boeing itself said up until now.
They do want to replace jointly 777/747, but so far as Boeing sees it, 777 has a lot of life left in it. I would be very surprised if 777-300ER was the last 777 we saw. Also, 777-200 is being replaced, effectively, by 787-10.
I'm guessing we'll see Y3 not that far after Y1.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 18350 times:
Quoting Joost (Reply 14): What is so special about the picture? It is the most standard looking aircraft ever...
Check out the nose and the grazed edges on the engines. I wouldn't call that standard since there's in no aircraft flying today with those features. Like I said earlier, they might as well call it the 787-200.
Aeropiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 281 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18279 times:
I find it interesting that Boeing made this announcment after Airbus announce that the A350 EIS would be delayed due cockpit changes. This now puts pressure on Airbus to commit engineering talent to the A320 replacement, at the cost of the A350..may be. Boeing could enjoy another 2 to 3 years lead on Airbus with there 737 replacement.
A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
AirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2818 posts, RR: 43 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18129 times:
Quoting Solnabo (Reply 2): I guess Airbus has something up their sleeve about upgrading A320 series...
This is not good news for Airbus. The A320/737 matchup is the only matchup that Airbus has a clear winner (and one of it's few competitive products given the A330/A340 collapse last year). That's not a bad thing, they basically have the Civic of the skies.
The timing is especially bad for Airbus in that they have a A380 model that has failed to catch fire, a A330/A340 family that is dying against the 777 and a 350 that is still being outordered by the 787. Airbus is having to revamp it's entire product line in reaction.
Boeing is going to have a few steps on Airbus technology wise from the 777 and 787. In particular some of the composite body technology and the maintainence technology is going to be critical for Boeing and Airbus is going to have to catch up to be competitive with this plane on the drawing board.
Boeing also has a bit "weirder" technologies they could look at for this project, namely the BWB, and the double hull design they were looking at.
PlaneDane From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18122 times:
Quoting Tifoso (Reply 13): I found it interesting that the fuselage will be widened so that the diameter is greater than that of the A320. Should Airbus widen their fuselage as well, we are back to where we started.
I hope neither Airbus nor Boeing make it wide enough to allow for a 7th seat to be installed in each row. I would much prefer the comfort of having some extra room.
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 18): The B737RS will not seat 7 abreast because to do so would require the cabin width of the B767.
It will be wide enough to have two aisles, right? I thought that WN was pushing for this.
Quoting Sinlock (Reply 7): Boeing should have a slight boost as this will be their second "composite" aircraft, But Airbus will have it's A400M knowlage to help.
I'm not sure that the composite technology taken rom the A400M program will translate all that well or provide the advantages Airbus would be looking for. Rather, I predict that we'll see the current A320 fuselage redone in Aluminum-Lithium.
B707321C From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18122 times:
I think Airbus should think long and hard how to compete in this market segment. The B737 and A320 replacement must provide a huge improvement in operating cost before it makes any sense. There will probably be a lot of new "inexpensive " aircrafts produced in low cost areas by 2015 that these new products have to compete with. Can a new B737 replacement give a better net present value for the airlines than an A320 made in China? Or B737/A320 Size aircraft made in Russia for half the price?
Based on this I do not think that a new B737 or A320 will be a popular as the respective models as they are replacing.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10064 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 18065 times:
Airbus should re-engine the A320 by 2010 and develop a replacement once the Boeing product is known to the public in detail to be able to answer with a an even better product, like Boeing did when they brought the 777 after Airbus introduced the A340/330. I have the feeling Airbus isn´t doing enough to keep the A320 fresh past 2010. Their engines are 80s technology.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 17978 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 23): Airbus should re-engine the A320 by 2010 and develop a replacement once the Boeing product is known to the public in detail to be able to answer with a an even better product, like Boeing did when they brought the 777 after Airbus introduced the A340/330.
Not sure if that's a good idea. Slapping some new engines on the A320 is not a solution, short term or long term. They'll just spend a bunch of money for nothing. Boeing never re-engined the 767 after Airbus went ahead with the A330/A340. They continued their plans with the 777 and look at where they're at now. Maybe Airbus should do the same. A couple of years late might not be that bad...just ask Boeing as far the 777 goes. Just my
25 Kappel: How about 767 vs a332? BTW the a330 had one of its best years last year. It was the a340 that collapsed. And who says Airbus won't be able to compete
26 Poitin: More likely the 797-200, but I think you have it scoped pretty well. Particularly about the wide cabin. Boeing learned that lesson when the 720 came
27 Ikramerica: Changing 2012-2015 to 2011-2014 doesn't change anything. It will be 2012. Mark my words. Unless flight testing schedules are delayed on any other pro
28 Joost: Haha yes The 787 at least had a shark tail - oh wait, that feature was gone in the final design. I just fail to feel any exitement by a drawing like
29 Keesje: I think Airbus might be working on a 320 upgrade & Boeing concluded another upgrade on the 737 won't do the trick. Hopefully the 737NG sales will hold
30 Moparman: Now that doesn't surprise me coming from an Airbus fanatic like you! LOL!! The A320 is ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY in comparison to the B787. That is like say
31 CruzinAltitude: Its nice to see the 797 start to build steam. I just wonder how many threads will be started with titles like this. . . "Will the 737RS be renamed the
32 Kaitak744: I definately favor the 797. Not exactly. The "new" Boeing line will eventually look like this. 797, 787, 777, 747-8. http://www.boeing.com/randy/arch
33 Zvezda: Very unlikely. One wide aisle allows for faster embarkation and disembarkation than two narrow aisles. WN are pushing for increased aisle width for f
34 Ikramerica: That's very true. The aisle on a 737 is quite tight. If someone needs to come forward because they can't get their bag in the overhead bin or an F/A
35 Planemaker: I am going to assume that you meant "chevron" and not "grazed edges." If that is the case, you will find that feature on the CRJ-700/900. Some questi
36 Stitch: The US Navy could order up to 100 of them in various guises over the next decade or more, so that alone should keep the 737 line running until the "7