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As Expected - The Bmi 767 Goes Tech In Barbados  
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11058 times:

As expected - the BD rustbucket 767 has gone tech - in Barbados. Todays inbound is delayed 20hrs +

Las vegas cancelled today.

How could so many people here see that the aircraft they had choosen was always suffering Tech problems, yet BD couldn't see it?


The world is really getting smaller these days
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

So all BD pax will have been transferred to UA flights to LAS no doubt, which will be cheap as they will have to fly to LHR, and then via ORD or IAD, or to LGW and then direct to LAS with VS. A whole 767 load (so there probably isn't a huge amount of availability on either route).

I was suprised its lasted over 3 weeks without going tech!



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineCol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2129 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

BD, does that stand for Bad Decisions?

User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4106 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10809 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Thread starter):
How could so many people here see that the aircraft they had choosen was always suffering Tech problems, yet BD couldn't see it?

Let's be honest though, they can't see much can they



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineNewSky From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10622 times:

Where did they get this 767 from?

User currently offlineTIMEAIR From Canada, joined May 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10609 times:

Quoting NewSky (Reply 4):
Where did they get this 767 from?

Air Canada , USAirways??  stirthepot 



You can't get there from here.
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

Quoting NewSky (Reply 4):
Where did they get this 767 from?

They got it from Holland Excel.

And, yes. I am seariously surprised that it hasn't had to divert due to MX.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10374 times:

I am in Barbados for a few months and I used to enjoy seeing the bmi A330 approach over my house. I saw the bmi 767 arriving the other day and pondered what the passenger experience might be like compared to the A330.

I have been speaking to a few people here who flew out in bmi business class from LHR via MAN. They were all very positive about the service. If bmi is trying to attract such high-spending tourists, then the use of the 767 (especially now that it has gone tech!) would seem to have the opposite effect.


User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10231 times:

I am no fan of what bmi have recently done to a once great airline, but really don't see what there is to gloat about. bmi had to have major checks done on their own A330s, and most people in touch with the industry know that current generation long haul widebodies (i.e. A330 etc) are very difficult to come by on short-term leases right now. Various UK carriers have short-term leased a right mixture of a/c over the last few years - would you have rather they leased a TriStar for example???

Andy


User currently offlineAIRCANL1011 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 8):
would you have rather they leased a TriStar for example???

Yes Please, That would be really cool to see an L1011 in BMI colors!!!



CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6346 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10149 times:

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 9):
would you have rather they leased a TriStar for example???

Andy

My vote is for a 707...in bmi colors...and I am sure it wouldn't go tech so often...4 engines 4 the long haul!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10094 times:
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To be honest this whole tread is seriously lacking in any sort of substance, other than a seemingly good excuse to knock bmi again.

It's not like any of bmi's A330s have ever gone AOG down route is it?

Down route AOGs are a regular fact of life for every long-haul operator, nobody (including bmi) has spare aircraft outside the UK that I'm aware of.

You can't comment on a single aircraft's technical reliability with the sort of logic that it's gone AOG down route; therefore it must be a piece of crap. Over time every aircraft will fall over, usually at the most inconvenient times!

What's more important is the day-to-day reliability;
Does the aircraft carry a lot of deferred defects?
Is the aircraft subject to frequent technical delays?
Has the aircraft been AOG on multiple occasions causing long delays?

I haven't noticed any ongoing technical issues causing delays with this particular aircraft around the airport.

I'd be the last person to defend Arkefly as last year we leased a HollandExel 767 (PH-AHQ) for a couple of weeks and it's reliability wasn't great, with a couple of significant technical delays. Yet here I am defending them because the tread lacks any insight into the real reliability of the aircraft, and appears to be another excuse to knock bmi.

While criticism of bmi is often justified, for example their buy-on-board service concept seems to have been a complete disaster because they handled the implementation so badly. However, I think in this case I'll reserve judgement until I've seen enough for me to actually believe the aircraft really has a reliability problem i.e. someone from bmi posts it's TDR stats (not gonna happen) or we wait and see how the aircraft performs over the coming weeks. If it falls over repeatedly - fair point, if not this is a one-off incident of the type that affects every individual aircraft in service everywhere.

However that was a different aircraft to the one currently in question and HollandExel have now been taken over by TUI and integrated into the group's airline division. The aircraft is currently contacted to Thomsonfly/Britannia Engineering for maintenance in the UK.

Quoting BestWestern (Thread starter):
As expected - the BD rustbucket 767 has gone tech - in Barbados

Snappy tabloid language, but short on facts. Have you been on this aircraft and seen what sort of state it's in to support the rustbucket comment? It's an ex-Martinair aircraft and so has been maintained by KLM for most of it's career. As I said above, the aircraft is currently maintained by Thomsonfly, not exactly an airline seems to have a problem with unreliable aircraft and poor engineering standards.

One overnight technical delay is not, in isolation, any sort of indication of reliability.

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 6):
And, yes. I am seariously[sic] surprised that it hasn't had to divert due to MX.

Why? Have you been through the tech records and reliability reports looking for potential problems and trends?

Quoting Cambrian (Reply 7):
I saw the bmi 767 arriving the other day and pondered what the passenger experience might be like compared to the A330.

I have been speaking to a few people here who flew out in bmi business class from LHR via MAN. They were all very positive about the service. If bmi is trying to attract such high-spending tourists, then the use of the 767 (especially now that it has gone tech!) would seem to have the opposite effect.

I'd fully agree that in terms of passenger appeal for the economy traveller this 767 isn't in the same league as the A330, mainly due to the lack of personal IFE. Still at the end of the day, the vast majority of holiday travellers will go for price and schedule before they even start worrying about the latest IFE system, of lack thereof. For Business passengers there probably isn't any significant difference onboard the 767 as I believe a full J-class cabin has been installed that's at least comparable to what bmi has on the A330 and the aircraft is crewed by bmi cabin crews.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10046 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 6):
They got it from Holland Excel.

It's an ex Holland Exel (they don't exist anymore) aircraft. Currently owned by ArkeFly, who has taken over Holland Exel's assets and employees.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9930 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
To be honest this whole tread is seriously lacking in any sort of substance, other than a seemingly good excuse to knock bmi again.

I agree with Crosswind. One incident should not provoke such a response.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9856 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
If it falls over repeatedly - fair point, if not this is a one-off incident of the type that affects every individual aircraft in service everywhere.

Funny thing is that prior to delivery there were a number of threads here discussing the reliability of same aircraft.

PH-MCV is still flying for ArkeFly at the moment, but it seems it has more technical problems/delays then what it is flying This week ArkeFly had to lease a Air Plus A310 and Hapag Lloyd 738 to back up their schedule caused by a technical delay of the 763 at BJL.

Bmi & The 767-300ER (by Monkeyboi Jan 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2537140

I've also read reports discussing the poor state of the business cabin offerings from a long haul BD cabin crew member: "the overall service that bmi provides has diminished dramatically in man at the moment we have the 767. this is operating las,bgi,anu. we have main screen ife on this. in C class we should have dvd players (24) one for each pax. the flights i have done we have had 5 loaded and some of these are u/s.not enough water to give to pax, under catering the meals, pax are kicking off left right and centre.
"


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211154 (Post 4)

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
Snappy tabloid language

Thats true - nothing beats a headline!

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
a seemingly good excuse to knock bmi again.

In the past Six weeks, Ive flown 17 sectors with Bmi. I love this carrier. I'm really sad in the direction this company is going. Rather than sit back and say nothing - I'm being vocal about it, and I don't apologise for it.

I'm seeing so many mistakes made. Prior to this aircraft coming onboard questions were raised as to its reliability. More recently cabin crew have complained about the product onboard the 767. Bmi have also announced that the premium economy cabin is to be dropped on this aircraft when its sent to heathrow.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1098 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9571 times:

I was thinking, as there is a A340 of LH being parked, why not just use that aircraft for this short period of time, being a stack holder of BD, will LH be able to help?


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9308 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 14):
PH-MCV is still flying for ArkeFly at the moment, but it seems it has more technical problems/delays then what it is flying This week ArkeFly had to lease a Air Plus A310 and Hapag Lloyd 738 to back up their schedule caused by a technical delay of the 763 at BJL.

So a few spotters notice that Arkefly are using an Air Plus Comet A310 and a Hapag Lloyd 737 for a day or two because the 767 was tech. Easy to notice that sort of thing when the fleet is just a couple of aircraft, not any where near as easy to notice how often individual aircraft go tech in a large fleet with a service backup. Notice the word is "seems it has..." - not exactly empirical or scientific measurements by the sound of it. 767s are not inherrantly unreliable and whilst I DO have an issue with degredation of service standards especially when the customer is not informed and compensated, making an issue out of bmi subbing a 767 for a few weeks (on the basis of it being a 767 alone) is knocking for knocking's sake. Leave it be eh - the services are planned to go back to A330 when the checks are done in April.

A


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9246 times:

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 16):
the services are planned to go back to A330 when the checks are done in April.



Quoting Skymonster (Reply 16):
subbing a 767 for a few weeks

Once the 330 maintenance is completed, the 767 is then moved to heathrow for daily service to KSA, enabling the heathrow 330 to start daily services to BOM.

Premium Economy will no longer be offered. This is not a sub aircraft for a few weeks. It is a 14 month lease until 1st April 2007. I wouldnt be worried about a few weeks lease.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/1731.pdf

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 16):
not exactly empirical or scientific measurements by the sound of it

True. I usually stick to solid facts, and hate to quote pprune or other users here as fact.

[Edited 2006-03-02 23:58:28]

[Edited 2006-03-03 00:15:59]


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2401 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Thread starter):
the BD rustbucket 767 has gone tech

Are you speaking of the 763 in general, or just this particular BD model?



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
Why? Have you been through the tech records and reliability reports looking for potential problems and trends?

First of all, i love bmi. Whenever i fly to LHR, it's not because of the cheap fares but because i love the carrier. I have seen cheaper BA fares than BD, but still fly with them. So, NO! This is not another chance to bash bmi.

Now, the reason i say this is because many of my friends all over the EU have connections to people in the MX biz and many higher ranked people. The Ex- Holland Excel B767 had many issues with the systems. Even though they were minor, they required a lot of effort and time to do the work.

That is Time and Effort that was never spent on this aircraft before delivery to BD, therefore there are bound to be issues.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7368 times:

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 10):
My vote is for a 707...in bmi colors...

Wouldn't be the first time:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Giorgio Adamo



User currently offlineBCAL707 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 20):

Now THAT'S a beautiful plane! I like that tail logo also. However, I personally feel that ANY logo looks good on a 707 tail, IMO the most beautiful aircraft tail ever made.


User currently onlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6026 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 6):
They got it from Holland Excel.

And, yes. I am seariously surprised that it hasn't had to divert due to MX.

No from TUI Holland (ArkeFly). But yes its an Ex Holland Excel plane, en actually they don't have that much flying hours on them because they were grounded for quite a while when SAS retired them.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 11):
It's an ex-Martinair aircraft and so has been maintained by KLM for most of it's career. As I said above, the aircraft is currently maintained by Thomsonfly, not exactly an airline seems to have a problem with unreliable aircraft and poor engineering standards.

Hasn't been maintained by KLM, but my MP itself...


User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6020 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 22):
But yes its an Ex Holland Excel plane, en actually they don't have that much flying hours on them because they were grounded for quite a while when SAS retired them.

Yes, that is what i meant to say when i posted.

Even though there aren'tmany hours on the clock, being grounded can damage an aircraft aswell.

It is like a Hard Drive in your PC. I you don't use it a lot, it will wear away faster than if you use it all of the time. (Have had first hand experiance on the matter)

Anything could have gotten corroded in the time it was grounded and possibly the aircraft has not been checked thoroughly enough, therefore causing this MX issue in Barbados.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 22):
actually they don't have that much flying hours on them because they were grounded for quite a while when SAS retired them.

This aircraft never flew for SAS.



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 MauriceB : Woops youre right, the others are ex-SAS, this is the MP aircraft... if im correct it also wen't to afrika for a year or so.
26 Post contains links DONS : This particular aircraft was delivered in 1995 to MP. So it's only 11 years old, not really a rustbucket if you ask me. It was the youngest 767 in the
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