SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3384 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4140 times:
Not bad, about $213 million excluding bankruptcy costs. Hopefully DL will improve and break even in 2007. Good to see that the unrestricted cash balance has increased.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3384 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4121 times:
Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day. Losses like this aren't sustainable. Fuel surely isn't helping. The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4175 posts, RR: 30 Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4121 times:
Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter): Delta has posted a loss of $300 million for January 2006, down from $314 million from January '05.
After a year they've trimmed their same-period loss by only 5%? Gee, only 20 more years before they finally break even.
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4104 times:
I can't help but think getting these terrible numbers out doesn't have something to do with the ongoing pilot negotiations.
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3): Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day. Losses like this aren't sustainable. Fuel surely isn't helping. The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.
Whew!!!!! Thanks for the clarification.
I was wondering what about those numbers was encouraging. A $7 million per day loss after bankruptcy costs - All I can say is: OUCH!!
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 4): After a year they've trimmed their same-period loss by only 5%? Gee, only 20 more years before they finally break even.
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10671 posts, RR: 100 Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4017 times:
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3): Wait, this is simply for January, not the first quarter. I don't know what I was thinking. Nevermind, this is not so good. 300 million in 30 days in almost $10 million dollars a day.
This isn't good. DL runs out of cash EOY 2006 if this keeps up. Although, I would expect some of this to be shifted forward positions due to the negotiations with pilots.
Oh, we have to finish March to get through the first quarter.
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 3): The cash position has improved though, which is a good thing.
No bad when ML throws $300 million to DL. Where is DL getting the extra capital to leverage? I know some was a shift in the credit card deal, but what else are they putting on the block?
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
Well, remember that Q1 is also the slowest time of travel. Other than any January traffic held over from the holidays, and Spring Break, it's pretty damn quiet.
I think the real test for DL will be Q3, once all their new international service is in full swing and they're into the busiest time of the year.
ImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1230 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3814 times:
Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!
The planes seem to depart full or nearly full. Is competition from the LCC's still so strong DL is unable to charge high enough ticket prices to cover expenses? It seems to me since the LCC's are gonna have to start raising their fares, the LC's might benefit----but will it all be for naught?
I mean, will it all go "full circle". The LC's will ALL go ot of business and the LCC's will step in, and in order to provide all the extra services---they will become like the LC's they put out of business, and the fares will go up to resonable rates and BAM we are right back where we started before de-regulation!
I sure hate to see the ruin of the LC's if it is going to end up right back where it all started anyway. Airtravel will be for those who can afford the costs. What a new world the people in the industry now face.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
SAS330 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 30 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3618 times:
Quoting Manni (Reply 9): Not bad, if this trend continues they'll break even in januari 2027
Nothing to add. This is exactly the american way of airline business. Run into more debit as much as possible.
Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.
By the way, I think Delta keeps really the world-record of debits? What is it at least? 24 billion?
Great Job! I am proud about Delta!
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3509 times:
troubled companies don't turn around overnight. In case you've missed it, DL expects to begin showing profits by this summer and be consistently profitable in 2007 - just 18 months after filing bankruptcy. No other airline has turned around so fast. Remember that most of DL's restructuring up this point has been to pull down domestic capacity and do some upgrades to Latin America but most of the new routes have either just begun (a few started in Dec) or will come on line this summer and fall.
DL's turnaround plan is more solid and more supported by its financiers than that of any other airline. DL was able to obtain $1B more financing than the value of the underlying assets. DL got into trouble because it didn't move fast enough before fuel spiked but they are moving at warp speed now. And also note they are accumulating cash - not burning it - and still have a number of potentially sellable assets.
DL was the world's most profitable airline for a couple of years in the late 90s and was consistenly the US's most profitable airline for decades prior to deregulation. You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.
WDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 604 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3466 times:
I worry about Delta expanding too quickly internationally and
flying too many empty planes before each market can mature
with the loads. I remember reading that Braniff (I) expanded very
quickly in 1979/1980 to Europe, Asia and beyond...each flight had
a only few dozen people on them, this was one of the mistakes
they made that caused them to go out of business.
Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!
And what about UAL and the "WOW", money that went down the drain with them? It's early days yet. Wait and see how much the losses they post will be just before they exit. Then you can say "WOW"!
B777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3327 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12): DL was the world's most profitable airline for a couple of years in the late 90s and was consistenly the US's most profitable airline for decades prior to deregulation. You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.
Thank you for the clear and real-world post, that let's everyone know exactly how the process works. I'm afraid the logic will be lost on this lot.
Letsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3276 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12): You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.
Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses! I guess it's refreshing to hear from an optemist.
Rottamo From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3210 times:
Quoting SAS330 (Reply 11): Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.
Let’s wait few years. It is quite probable that situation is another way round quite soon. They will fix situation is US. One or two LC will merge or exit and surviving one's will have low cost base. Same time LCCs will expand in Europe and bloodbath will start here. European LC are quite small and Ryanair + Easyjet are very big relatively (measured by intra Europe RPM). And we don't have chapter eleven. What will aviation world look like 2010 is an interesting question. After all, deregulation started a lot earlier is US versus Europe.
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4583 posts, RR: 26 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3152 times:
Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 16): Talk about looking at the world through rose colored glasses! I guess it's refreshing to hear from an optemist.
Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 14): Where is the money going?????? I mean, I understand all about the costs, overhead, fuel especially ---but WOW!
Quoting SAS330 (Reply 11): Nothing to add. This is exactly the american way of airline business. Run into more debit as much as possible.
Wished we would have an European attitude in this case.
By the way, I think Delta keeps really the world-record of debits? What is it at least? 24 billion?
Great Job! I am proud about Delta!
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 6): This isn't good. DL runs out of cash EOY 2006 if this keeps up.
People, before you post based on a single headline, please read the actual January 2006 report properly:
Operating loss for Jan 06 was $147mn, compared to $324mn in January 05 and $372mn last month (Dec 05). Even when you take out the pension expense item in Dec 05 (which did not exist for Jan 06), the operating loss was $196mn in Dec, still a $50 mn month-over-month improvement.
Most importantly, total cash levels have remained constant for the past few months; unrestricted cash has been stable at about $2.0-$2.1 billion. Remember also that this is probably the worst time of the year (1st Quarter) for airlines in terms of traffic volumes and cash levels.
Non-fuel CASM in January 2006 also dropped another 5.3% compared to Jan 2005 while RASM increased 12.3%....
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2863 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3114 times:
Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles... Must use SkyMiles...
All kidding aside, DL management hasn't yet shaken things up to address the cyclical nature of their business. UA didn't do it in their trip, either, and I fully expect the next industry downturn to be critically painful for them. The only carrier with the balls to try to really improve things so far seems to be NWA.
Bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2081 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 2): This is a very good sign for Delta. I really expect them to be Green by the end of 2007
A monthly loss of $300M is not good by any means. DL still faces a HUGE journey of uncertainty ahead with skyropcketing fuel, union unrest and LCCs attacking them like piranhas.
My big question is how much can DL lose before creditors pull the plug om Chapter 11 and DL collapses into Chapter 7(liquidation)?
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
B777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3071 times:
Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 21): A monthly loss of $300M is not good by any means. DL still faces a HUGE journey of uncertainty ahead with skyropcketing fuel, union unrest and LCCs attacking them like piranhas.
My big question is how much can DL lose before creditors pull the plug om Chapter 11 and DL collapses into Chapter 7(liquidation)?
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4657 posts, RR: 45 Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3001 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12): You are seeing DL return to its roots rather than run from it; it's future is very solid because they have a pretty decent track record which has been punctuated by about 5 years of bad management. They know what it takes to run a good airline and are on their way to doing it. You'll be amazed at the speed of DL's turnaround and how well it looks before very long.
While i'm an AVID Delta Air Lines fan, there has been more than 5 years of bad management unfortunately, and while Grinstein is in place now and hopefully will turn the beast around, he was on the board during those more than 5 years of mis-management. Mullin shoulda been chopped at the head long before he was and Allen was in too long too!
ORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1370 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2947 times:
Quoting WDBRR (Reply 13): I remember reading that Braniff (I) expanded very
quickly in 1979/1980 to Europe, Asia and beyond...each flight had
a only few dozen people on them, this was one of the mistakes
they made that caused them to go out of business.
You cannot compare Braniff (26-27 years ago!) to Delta. BN used gas-guzzling 747s while DL has efficient 767s and 777s. Also, BN flew routes with no connecting feed in cities where they had a small presence (i.e. BOS-FRA and LAX-SEL). DL is flying from JFK and ATL, where they have tons of connecting feed and a strong local presence.
25 DfwRevolution: Try this on for size - Assuming $100 denomenations, Delta set fire to a pile of Benjamin Franklin's measuring 10 bills wide x 10 bills long x 3,000 b
26 WorldTraveler: dfw, not really. Money isn't really destroyed... just transferred. DL's customers, employees, and suppliers were the beneficiares of DL's inability to
27 Rottamo: Delta has yearly depreciation and amortization 1,273 millions. I guess that in short term (several years) they can lose one billion per year and cred
28 Panamair: Yes, but hindsight is always 20/20. ALL the people who are NOW complaining about Leo and Ron ALL kept their mouths shut BACK THEN. Did you hear a sin
29 WorldTraveler: Yes, Panamair, everyone complains about leadership when they start asking for cuts but no one complained about Leo Mullin when he signed the contract
30 AvConsultant: Yes this is very bad. DL is continuing to pax confidence recent stats did not paint a flattering picture for DL or it Connection carriers EV and OH.
31 Panamair: Don't recognize it? By flawed business plan, I assume you mean the previous one where the focus was on using big hubs like ATL, SLC, and CVG to funne
32 FlyPNS1: Actually, many people were complaining about Mullin back then. However, because DL was posting big profits, those who complained were ignored. DL cos
33 1MillionFlyer: they don't they are required SEC filings! DL issues were caused by much more than management. DL Skymiles used: 560,000, remaining balance = 152 numb
34 Flashmeister: DL Skymiles used: 560,000 How on Earth did you use this many?
35 SESGDL: Fact is, 90% of passengers do not care whether they are flying an MD-80 or a CRJ. All that matters is a good price and a safe trip. For business trav
36 1MillionFlyer: since about 1998: 4 Business Class R/T free tickets BNA-LGW 4 Business Class R/T free tickets BNA-AMS 4 First R/Ts BNA-San Juan 2 First R/T's BNA-St
37 AvConsultant: The LGA expansion is retaliation to AA serving ATL from LGA. DL will lose big time on the DFW run with an RJ. The RDU-LAX would be an excellent route
38 SESGDL: Why is that? DL is using 70-seat ERJ-170s, which to many are more comfortable than MD-80s. DL also retains its large FF-base in DFW and is still the
39 ERAUMcDlover: Mr. President? Is that you? We didn't know you were an aviation bufff.... lol. Delta's hardships have come a long way. No one definitive answer. Manag
40 Dl757md: I complained. I complained rather vocally along with many of my fellow Delta AMTs. You mean to tell me you actually bought into that "Win, Win situat
41 1MillionFlyer: Where to start: Banks that financed the Comair and ASA purchases even though the economics made no sense Pilots that vowed "Full pay to the last day"
42 Dl757md: Every airline has deal with issues outside it's direct control. Recognizing those issues and dealing with them in a manner that benefits your particu
43 JAL: That's a lot of money!! Hope they turn things around soon!
44 1MillionFlyer: Of course you won't. You tell me where EXACTLY will the airlines be in 5 years and what trends and planning should be started now. What will the pric
45 AvConsultant: When the flights were announced I was in DFW, WFAA reported the service would be on a CRJ-700. If it's a EMB-170, those are nice aircraft. I flew US
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