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New Non-Stop Bus Service From Union Sta To LAX  
User currently offlineJpj777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 75 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5890 times:

I searched for this topic but did not find it, hope its not a duplicate... (Los Angeles, California – March 1, 2006) Air travelers will soon be able to go from downtown to out of town on low-cost, non-stop FlyAway bus service beginning March 15, 2006, Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA) announced today. http://www.lawa.org/news/newsDisplay.cfm?newsID=784 If I still lived in LA this would have helped because I took Metrolink Comute trains downtown all the time, is this one piece fixed in a 100 piece broken puzzle that is LAX?

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Actually it was buried a few months back inside another LAX thread when the airport commissioners approved the new FlyAway bus service.

$3 probably is one of the bargains in LA!



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFiveMileFinal From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

What I don't understand is why the LACMTA didn't jump in on this a lot earlier, instead of having people rely on the Blue and Green lines or their own (horrifically inadequate) Route 439. Something political, I'm sure.


You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
the airport commissioners approved the new FlyAway bus service.

It's definite, then. Would they be fielding the new tandem Rapid busses?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
$3 probably is one of the bargains in LA!

You could say "best" bargain! I love it!



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineUpsldplaner1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5819 times:

They need this like 10 years ago when Metrolink started. Why havent they done it? I fly into LAX and live in SBD, ya because LAX is cheaper, and would love it if I could catch the train. Lax would benifeit, the airlines, and all the cities in the So Cal area. I know the shuttle services would not but I am sorry, I am not going to pay 45 dollars to get from LAX to downtown. This is what I was quoted last July 2005. Union Station serves so many cities with the metrolink and Amtrak, I cant see why they havent jumped on it either. What do we have to do to incourage these officials to do it. Let me know I will try something  Big grin

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

Quoting Upsldplaner1 (Reply 4):
Why havent they done it? I

Due politics and economics.

The FlyAway is does not turn a profit, in fact its estimated to loose over $3 million in 2006 on the regional Van Nuys service alone. LAWA has continued to subsidise the service basically out of kindness and willingness to create a low cost transportation alternative while helping reduce vehicle miles travelled in LA. About 750,000 people use the Van Nuys FlyAway on a yearly basis.

This Union station line is a 1 year pilot test (however LAWA did commit to 3 year leases on facilities) to see if nonstop bus service from the downtown area is warranted. Union Station was chosen due to connections it offers with other rail/bus services. Its estimated this line will generate loses of $4.1 million which LAWA will cover. LAWA estimates approximately 250,000 will make use of the new Union bus once established.

The other side of the political coin, is that LAWA recently finished negotiations for another multi year agreement for the 2,000 or so cabs that serve LAX. Its unlikely the city wanted to announce the FlyAway during prior years leading into these talks, as the taxis and LA City DOT which represents and governs them would likely oppose the bus service and become an area for contention. Taxi's from LAX have fixed non metered fees established by the DOT for service to the downtown area. Basically one arm of the LA City government has an interest in protecting taxi ridership due to the revenues generated.

At the end of the day, while many might like the idea of the FlyAway bus services, if it were not for the fact LAWA runs a surplus and has willingness to keep subsidizing the services, it should not exist at all on a purely business/economic point of view.
For those that suggest modest fare increases, LAWA has tried gimmicks with ticket books, fare changes etc, however once the roundtrip fare increases much more then $6 the ridership starts dropping off faster then revenues increase.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
This Union station line is a 1 year pilot test



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Its estimated this line will generate loses of $4.1 million which LAWA will cover. LAWA estimates approximately 250,000 will make use of the new Union bus once established.

Just wait till more people know about this. LAWA might still have to subsidize, but it could be substantially less. Imagine the car traffic load that would be taken off the freeways.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Its unlikely the city wanted to announce the FlyAway during prior years leading into these talks, as the taxis and LA City DOT which represents and governs them would likely oppose the bus service



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Basically one arm of the LA City government has an interest in protecting taxi ridership due to the revenues generated.

2005 was an election year and neither side wanted additional enemies if it could be avoided.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Taxi's from LAX have fixed non metered fees established by the DOT for service to the downtown area.

This is tantamount to highway robbery and an aberration that must be removed.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
The FlyAway is does not turn a profit, in fact its estimated to loose over $3 million in 2006 on the regional Van Nuys service alone



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
At the end of the day, while many might like the idea of the FlyAway bus services, if it were not for the fact LAWA runs a surplus and has willingness to keep subsidizing the services, it should not exist at all on a purely business/economic point of view.

L.A. has a much bigger catchment area that could support such services.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineCmk10 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5648 times:

Typical, I arrive via Amtrak at Union Station and fly out that night from LAX on March 10th. Why hast God forsaken me?


"Traveling light is the only way to fly" - Eric Clapton
User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Quoting Jpj777 (Thread starter):
non-stop FlyAway bus service

Trust me, there'll be plenty of stopping once the bus gets onto the 405.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5589 times:
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During one of my first trips to LAX during the early 1980's, there used to be helicopter service from a pad on top of a parking garage.

Anybody know about this service?


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5577 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
During one of my first trips to LAX during the early 1980's, there used to be helicopter service from a pad on top of a parking garage.

Anybody know about this service?

I do remember this service. It operated to downtown LA, Malibu and I think Burbank. I can see helicopter service returning, similar to the new service in NYC, returning to Los Angeles metro. In addtion, helicopter service was also available in San Francisco.


User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5574 times:
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Yes...SFO Helicopter flew from OAK to SFO. I don't where else they flew.

Does anyone remember the name of Helo operator at LAX?


User currently offlineZChannel From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

I think that's a good idea. For anyone that uses the Van Nuys Flyaway, it is a God send. Regardless if there is "a lot of stopping once on the 405" as someone above mentioned, I would rather sit on a bus and doze off than actually be behind the wheel in that type of traffic...


ZChannel: Member FDIC
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
This is tantamount to highway robbery and an aberration that must be removed.

Actually you'll find the fixed rate to be a good deal compared to if the meter was running and you were stuck in traffic. Fixed rate fare was started several years back at the behest of the LA Convention on Visitors Bureau to help attract more events and hotels stays in the downtown area.
New York City also has a similar fixed fare deal for instance for travel into parts of Manhattan from airports such as JFK.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 6):
L.A. has a much bigger catchment area that could support such services.

Its hard to get Angelino's out of their cars even if the service was free!

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
Anybody know about this service?

Company called Airspur. They connect LAX with Burbank, Orange Country and Ontario.
Besides an unfortunate accident they had down in Orange County, the loads were never able to consistently cover the operating cost.
They also experienced costly issues with engines/rotors on the Westland helicopters.


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From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Actually you'll find the fixed rate to be a good deal compared to if the meter was running and you were stuck in traffic.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
Its hard to get Angelino's out of their cars even if the service was free!

Because there isn't (until this announcement) a good, dependable and cheaper alternative!



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offline767ER From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX...I simply refuse to let my sis in law drive me from there to LAX????


Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

Quoting 767ER (Reply 15):
How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX.

Try metrotrip.org



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineFiveMileFinal From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
Try metrotrip.org

That doesn't resolve for me.

Quoting 767ER (Reply 15):
How would I get Public Transport from Riverside to LAX..

Until March 15, your trip will involve 4 rail lines and a bus (Metrolink, Metro's Red, Blue and Green Lines and the shuttle from the Aviation/LAX station.

Afterward, just take Metrolink in to Union Station and grab the FlyAway bus.



You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
Because there isn't (until this announcement) a good, dependable and cheaper alternative!

At the end of the day, LAWA is not a charity.

The Van Nuys FlyAway has been running now for more then 20 years, and has yet to breakeven a single year.
Even with this dependable service, yearly ridership has plateaued and remained pretty steady (very slight increase) during the last decade all the while LA traffic has gotten worse and passenger volume at LAX continues to rise.

The creation of the Union Station line is being done more for LAWA's own political plans as part of regional air transportation initiative. It recently came to light an initiative to get rail service to connect Union Station with Ontario Airport. LAWA thus is trying to get the Union Station name in play, and also is working on securing leases on parking facilities and other real estate around the station. This all plays into the eventual goal of diverting traffic away from LAX and towards other airports particularly LAWA's own ONT facilities.

The FlyAway as I've mentioned on its own simply cannot justify its cost from a pure economic point of view as ridership remains way below what is required to break even, an frankly as we all know its very difficult to persuade Angelino's into any form of transportation outside of their cars.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 17):
That doesn't resolve for me

Sorry. Should have said socaltransport.org instead.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
It recently came to light an initiative to get rail service to connect Union Station with Ontario Airport.

It would be interesting to see if this contemplated rail service would get the ridership required to justify its existence also from a pure economic point of view - as claimed projections could not support a vastly cheaper mode of transport even with the worsening LA traffic and continuously rising passenger volume at LAX. Angelinos must really love their cars to suffer so. If the rails couldn't get it either, I guess it is the poor taxpayers' turn to do the charity.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
This all plays into the eventual goal of diverting traffic away from LAX and towards other airports particularly LAWA's own ONT facilities.

All related to convincing domestic carriers to use ONT, leaving LAX free for higher yield international flights. A most laudable aim, I must admit.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 8):
Trust me, there'll be plenty of stopping once the bus gets onto the 405.

If the bus driver is smart, they wont even bother with the 405. 101/110/10/La Cienega.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24806 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
101/110/10/La Cienega.

I remember seeing a map for the service when it was still only an internal proposal many months back.. I believe it showed using the 110/105 for most of the journey.. suppose the carpool/bus lanes are a big advantage.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
All related to convincing domestic carriers to use ONT, leaving LAX free for higher yield international flights. A most laudable aim, I must admit.

I believe LAWA in the coming years will start using economic blackmail to encourage airline and public shifts away from LAX to ensure the facility does not exceed the recently approved court settlement agreement of 75 million annual passengers.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Be interesting to see how it fairs. In truth, I don't think there's that kind of of LAX traffic through Union Station.

The Van Nuys Flyaway has the distinct advantage of being 'on the way' for a large number of people and is much better thought of as an inexpensive remote parking lot than part of a transportation link.

Steve


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
I remember seeing a map for the service when it was still only an internal proposal many months back.. I believe it showed using the 110/105 for most of the journey.. suppose the carpool/bus lanes are a big advantage.

Actually, I totally forgot about that freaky 110 carpool/bus/rail flyover. That actually will be a rather fast route. Does the Glenn Anderson have a busway too?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 ATCT : Is it just me, or did anyone else read the topic and go....Union Station...to LAX....isnt that like 3,000 Miles?! I am referring to Union Station, D.C
26 N1120A : Union Station, Los Angeles. There are several Union Stations, and D.C. isn't even the largest.
27 Laxintl : No busway, however carpoll lane that ends just about at the 405.
28 N1120A : Ok, makes sense.
29 Upsldplaner1 : In the long run this will work. Look at metrolink when it first started. Not many people knew about it. But as the traffic increases and it cost more
30 Laxintl : Considering the Van Nuys FlyAway has been running 20+ years now and has not managed to profit, I seriously doubt the Union Station bus will ever eith
31 Upsldplaner1 : but either way I suppose its nice to offer the public another alternate form of transportation that in its own little way will help traffic and pollu
32 DEVILFISH : Considering it's now the 6th of March, would they be publishing or announcing the schedules soon? What type of busses, and will those be stationed at
33 Ikramerica : I don't quite get the concept of "it will lose money but it's a gift." How much does the airport charge to take the long term parking buses? Inter ter
34 Post contains links Jpj777 : Devilfish: Yes they are going to leave from Berth 9 at the Patsaouras/Gateway Transit Plaza and looks like construction will start this summer on the
35 Laxintl : Runs every half hour from 5am-1am and hourly in between. Fee is $3 each way with discounts for employees and passbooks available. I actually heard a
36 MGA : Los Angeles public transportation is a very controversial subject. The truth is that the real need of Downtown Los Angeles is RAIL service directly to
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