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737's With 'plastic' Wings  
User currently offlineRobin27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

A piece of news on the Aero-news site reveals that composite wings are planned to be in production by 2004 or 2005 on the 737.

Many parts of aircraft including tail fins are already using composite materials which are incredibly strong, so how long before a complete composite airliner appears on the scene, and who will be first with it?

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineRobin27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 1844 times:


For some reason this did not appear on the first post.

User currently offlineBacardi182 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1091 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (15 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

a long time, and american would never fly it unless they changed their livery. Composite material has to be painted and cannot be silver like the rest of AA's fleet..

User currently offlineBobo2196 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (15 years 10 months ago) and read 1784 times:

American would have no problems their livery. Take a look at the A300 it is just painted grey. AA could and probably will just paint the composite grey to match the bare metal color.

Catch the Spirit
F L Y N W A320's!

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (15 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1770 times:
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AA is starting to polish their A300s now.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7906 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (15 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

Actually this does not make any difference. Airlines paint the flying surfaces of the plane anyways. Wings are typically aircraft grey, and tails match the body color. So until planes have fully composite bodies, which might be sometime, then the bare metal schemes will go.

Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 7137 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (15 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

"Plastic" is hardly the right word, especially if it makes you think about LEGO bricks or Barby dolls. Call it rather "graphite composite" or "carbon fibre" or "CF", then we will know, especially if we have an expensive fishing rod.
Carbon fibre was invented back in 1962 by the Royal Aircraft Establishment in Farnborough, England (RAE, the British NASA you might call it) and has since then been widely used in the aircraft industry. In the civil sector Airbus has used it for tail surfaces for 25 years. Beechcraft made a biz turboprop, the Starship, entirely out of CF some 10-15 years back. Porpellers and helicopter rotor blades are mostly made of CF these days. A lot of secondary structures such as landing gear doors, tail cones, wing tips, winglets etc. have been made of CF on just about any airplane for many many years.
Very large structures are still difficult (and therefore expensive) to make. CF structures must be moulded in one operation and cured under high pressure and temperature.
In military aviation CF has been even more widely used. The General Dynamics (now Lockheed) F-16 fighter was probably the first fighter to make extensive use of CF already in the 70'es. The MDD AV-8B Harrier II has flown with CF wings the last 15 years.
Rockets, satellites, space ships, race cars etc. have all made heavy use of CF since it was invented. My model aeroplanes are made entirely of CF except the fuselage tail boom. It contains the radio receiver antenna, so it is made of aramid fibre which unlike CF doesn't shield for the radio signals which control it. The nose cone on any airliner is also made of aramid fibre since it covers the weather radar and needs to be transparent to radio waves.
For 30 years is has been possible to make a 737 size wing out of CF. The only problem is if it is economically feasible.
You can paint CF just like any metal. If in doubt, have a look at any Airbus fin. In fact it MUST be painted. Otherwise its black color, when parked on a hot day in sunshine, would make it so hot that it loses its strength.
Most modern glider airplanes are made of CF (plus glassfibre and aramid fibre), and therefore they are normally painted all white, and never ever painted in dark colors or left unpainted. Often on gliders it is not real paint, but a mixture of paint pigment and a plastic called gel coat which is sprayed and cured in the moulds even before the CF structure is built up in the mould. But that's only a way to make a perfect aerodynamic surface with exactly the same shape as the mould.
Preben Norholm

Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 12431 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (15 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1736 times:

I must agree. Carbon Fibre is not plastic. I'm not chemical or materials engineer, but if I think back to my materials classes, I seem to remember that plastic is more amorphous like glass (like a very slow viscous liquid) where carbon fibre is much closer to a crystalline matrix making it very ordered, and thus very very strong while at the same time requiring less material (and weight).

Isn't it also true that the planned 3XX will have composite wings? That would be one big-ass composite structure.

Composites are cool and everything because they are much lighter when offering the same strength as metals. However, metals are malleable, and thus much more easily repaired if damaged. If you ding a metal part, you can take a sledge hammer and bang it back into shape. (Slight underexaggeration, but you get the point.) If you damage a CF part, you have to replace the whole thing. That is a very costly workroom mistake to clean up.

Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineRobin27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (15 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Plastic was only a headline grabber hence the inverted commas.

Anyway, some interesting info has been posted. Is anyone aware that a company headed by Richard Noble of land speed record fame, is currently researching a small turbo prop for biz use using composite construction down at Farnborough.


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