Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What Aircraft For Branson's New SYD/LAX Airline?  
User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 9347 times:

Been lot in media lately (especially since SQ denied access) in Australia re Branson starting new airline, which apparently could be flying by 2007.

At present only 4 frequencies/week permitted, (does this mean using 744's) & he's stated they must have provision to do dailies to be viable, ie to get some of business market.

Does this mean aircraft would come from VS fleet? ... or SQ fleet?

If using 74's on SYD/LAX they'd not want to be weight restricted out of LAX like UA are which I think is due to engines that UA have on 744's which r different to QF's.

Anyone out there with info on what aircraft the new airline, whatever it will be called will use.

On a name, Virgin apparently can't be used in name unless SQ agree (reason apparently why Pacific Blue is not simply called Virgin Blue)

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Are you sure Branson will start a new airline just for one route?
The easiest thing to do would be to continue the A340-600 from LHR-SIN-SYD on to LAX.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9251 times:

Quoting Simpilicity (Thread starter):
At present only 4 frequencies/week permitted, (does this mean using 744's) & he's stated they must have provision to do dailies to be viable, ie to get some of business market.

Where does this come from? From my reading of the Oz/US bilateral, 4 frequencies a week is the MINIMUM an airline can offer, not the MAXIMUM.
He could use his A340-600.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
The easiest thing to do would be to continue the A340-600 from LHR-SIN-SYD on to LAX

He cant use the Virgin name on international airline services UNLESS SQ sign off on it, (a condition of the sale of 49% of VS to SQ) hence current international services are by Pacific Blue. I would suppose he could wet lease aircraft from VS to DJ when his A380 arrive in 08. It would make sence to run two A340 in oppisit directions, daily on LHR-HKG-SYD-LAX-LHR, BUT that would take 6 aircraft, or maybe five if the timings can be made to work out.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

I think the 346 would be a great choice assuming it can do it unrestricted. Be good to see something other than the 747 on the route for a change! With AC putting a 777 on it, double bonus.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9209 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
I think the 346 would be a great choice assuming it can do it unrestricted.

I believe if QF 744ER's can do it unrestricted, the A346 shouldn't have a problem. It would be nice to see the 744, AC's 777 and the A346 leave around the same time. On such a long route, the A346 sure would add 1-2 hours to the travel time compared to the 744 and the T7.


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9199 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Branson will start a new airline just for one route?

Absolutely, they been talking about it for ages & have domestic feed thru Dj in OZ. Might make sense to have same aircraft do around the world, if that was some how permitted.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):
I would suppose he could wet lease aircraft from VS to DJ when his A380 arrive in 08

Too late they are talking start of 2007.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):
Where does this come from? From my reading of the Oz/US bilateral, 4 frequencies a week is the MINIMUM an airline can offer, not the MAXIMUM.

Branson stated that 4/week not enough & must be able to do dailies or not viable, so must be dependent on seating/engines on VS 744's.

Which engines do VS 744's have?


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9184 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 4):
On such a long route, the A346 sure would add 1-2 hours to the travel time compared to the 744 and the T7.

Surely it would only be few minutes like 15-20 ???

Taxiing time at both ends & gate access vs remote stands at both LAX & SYD could negate this amount of actual flying time difference ???


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 6):
Surely it would only be few minutes like 15-20 ???

No way. Take for example the LHR-JNB route. BA and SA 744's fly in exactly an hour less that VS A343's and A46's. Heck, when VS send their 744 to JNB during the summer, flight time is an hour less than the A340.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9121 times:

If they did an around the world routing, then it would actually free up the planes to arrive depart at better hours, theoretically, since the 346 going in one direction is independent of the 346 flying the other direction.

LHR-SIN-SYD-LAX-LHR
LHR-LAX-SYD-SIN-LHR



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9108 times:

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 7):
No way. Take for example the LHR-JNB route. BA and SA 744's fly in exactly an hour less that VS A343's and A46's. Heck, when VS send their 744 to JNB during the summer, flight time is an hour less than the A340.

r u talking timetabled or actual?

We all know timetables are padded, so aircraft can depart late & still arrrive on time or early.

Don't think slight time difference would mak a difference to pax if they know they were on a relatively new aircraft. Most VS fitouts r quite good I believe, unilke the awful UA product at present across the Pacific to OZ.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 9):
r u talking timetabled or actual?

Actual flight time. An hour would make a difference to some people... and I'm glad to say I'm not one of those people especially when I have to fly the quiet loong tube (A346)  biggrin 


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8959 times:

doubt it would be that much difference & this could be hidden in padding of timetables anyway.

Would VS have a 346 available early in 07 for use across the Pacific or a 744 for that matter?


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

If DJ enter the LAX market it will be with a 737-800 flying SYD-APW-HNL-LAX!

Virgin Blue face enormous obstacles to making this work.

Their feeder network in Australia is all Economy offering a very poor Ryanair style pay for your sandwich experience. Not at all what the people who buy seats in the pointy end of the plane want.

And they have no partner airline in North America to fly beyond LAX. Singapore Airlines won't tolerate having them in the Star Alliance, but would block them joining any other alliance.

Think about it.

Virgin Blue = LCC = no high yield passengers.

We've already seen that their expansion outside Australia has been on the trashiest, low yield routes which support an all-Economy model.

Destinations like Tonga, Samoa and Rarotonga.

Maybe when Virgin Blue think about through baggage or free refreshments they will be in a position to think that they might get some high yield premium class passengers to make LAX a goer.

Until then, they had better thank God that Polynesian Blue has traffic rights from Australia to the USA via APW, and work out how to get a little 737 to fly all that way.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

Hey regarding the eingine issue with QF,UA and VS

UA has 747-400 using PW4056 rated at 60,000 Lbs thrust per engine. 875,000 Lbs MTOW

QF had 747-400 using RR211-524GH rated at 58,000 Lbs thrust per engine 877,000 Lbs MTOW

QF has 747-400 with GE CF-6 eingines rated at 59,000 Lbs per engine. 875,000 Lbs MTOW

QF has 747-400ER with GE CF-6 BF5 rated at 62,000 Lbs per eingine 908,000 Lbs MTOW

VS has 747-400 with GE CF-6 rated at 59,000 Lbs per eingine but only 817,000 Lbs MTOW because they chose not to buy the maximum weight option.

This means that to have an MTOW of 877,000 they just need to buy the certificate from boeing for a cuple of million and the plane is then certified for 877,000 Lbs MTOW but no changes on the actual aircraft are made.

Hope I helped You!:D

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8871 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):
He cant use the Virgin name on international airline services UNLESS SQ sign off on it

Is that for all Virgin Atlantic services? For example as reported today in some papers that VS are looking at flights to Pakistan, would SQ have to give the nod, even though they are minority stake holder (although a large minority of 49% if that makes sense  Wink !)


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8856 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Branson will start a new airline just for one route?
The easiest thing to do would be to continue the A340-600 from LHR-SIN-SYD on to LAX.

Since when do VS fly LHR-SIN-SYD with the A340-600?
In fact, they don't fly it at all so do you mean LHR-HKG-SYD?


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8829 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 13):
QF had 747-400 using RR211-524GH rated at 58,000 Lbs thrust per engine 877,000 Lbs MTOW

Nit Pick Mode=ON

QF HAS 747-400 using RR211-524GH rated at 58,000 Lbs thrust per engine 877,000 Lbs MTOW. 21 of them, actually.

Nit Pick Mode=OFF

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineVhqpa From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8746 times:

Im assuming it will start of with a few 744's leased from VS then if all goes well maybe A380's somewhere down the track. I'd almost positive the service to be comparable to VS. maybe they can use the "Pacific Blue" brand. I'd say SYD-SFO would be a good route to start off with as passengers can connect with Virgin America (Providing it actully happens) at SFO or even on VS to LHR so Virgin can offer either SYD-HKG-LHR or SYD-SFO-LHR to passengers traveling between Australia and the UK.



Jason



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8600 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
21 of them, actually.

Sorry, i was trying to show the different Engine types that QF had, not the amount of aircraft for each type.

ill wright that next time Big grin

Cheers Leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

Quoting Vhqpa (Reply 17):
maybe they can use the "Pacific Blue" brand. I'd say SYD-SFO would be a good route to start off with as passengers can connect with Virgin America (Providing it actully happens) at SFO or even on VS to LHR

thatd be cool for SFO, IF IF IF this all happes - virgin atlantic, virgin america AND pacific blue!!!!!!!!!! (or whatever airline this route will be run under!)


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8477 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 18):
Sorry, i was trying to show the different Engine types that QF had, not the amount of aircraft for each type.

He was reffering to the 'HAD' in your sentence which he subtituted with 'HAS'.  biggrin 


User currently offline747400F From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8456 times:

What's to stop VS just extend their LHR-LAX service to SYD? Why create a whole new airline? BA has had beyond rights from the States previously, so why should VS not be able to get them?

User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 13):
QF has 747-400ER with GE CF-6 BF5 rated at 62,000 Lbs per eingine 908,000 Lbs MTOW

VS has 747-400 with GE CF-6 rated at 59,000 Lbs per eingine but only 817,000 Lbs MTOW because they chose not to buy the maximum weight option.

Did some one say VS can upgrade their CF-6 engine to 62,000 Lbs to make them do the same thing as QF's 744ER does??

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 15):
Since when do VS fly LHR-SIN-SYD with the A340-600?
In fact, they don't fly it at all so do you mean LHR-HKG-SYD?

They don't. If you read the thread, SRB is thinking of starting a new airline that will.


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

Hopefully the other partners of Virgin Blue will insist that they buy 777s

User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8289 times:

Quoting 747400F (Reply 21):
What's to stop VS just extend their LHR-LAX service to SYD? Why create a whole new airline?

erm, AFAIK, QF did not want SQ operating the route partly because it had no territorial reasons to (ie LAX and SYD are not part of Singapore) and partly because it would offer QF stiff competition. i dont think QF would have the same reservations with pacific blue, or similar company, but may do with VS.


25 TEAtheB : The difference in Mach number between the 744 and the A346 is no more than 3% (0.855 vs 0.83). Unless I'm missing something, on a (approx) 14 hour fl
26 Simpilicity : Where do u live on the moon? Sounds like you haven't flown DJ at all or at least recently? DJ is becoming more like QF everyday, with lounges, econom
27 Antares : Few things. It can't be Branson's airline in terms of majority ownership. He's been humiliated at Virgin Blue already by Corrigan, who has brushed all
28 Ikramerica : I never talked about the cruise speed or anything like that. I think the 346 would be a great choice. Don't attribute quotes to the wrong person. Be
29 Simpilicity : Why can't Branson do a DJ? He buttered up OZ politicians, put a few million in (I think it was AUD$10 Million) to start DJ & then a few years down th
30 Timboflier215 : this is going to be a VERY interesting and entertaining fight!! airlines fighting it our and SRB trying to stick his nose in everywhere! brilliant! i
31 Kaitak744 : Yes, I apologise. LHR-HKG-SYD-LAX is what I ment. They could also do LHR-LAX-SYD.
32 Gemuser : See reply 2 Gemuser
33 Antares : Simpilicity, The new carrier will have to be 51% Aussie owned to be a flag carrier. At least in today's world. Branson shows no signs of having much s
34 Simpilicity : That was supposedly the rules with domestic OZ airlines before Branson came along, had a little meeeting with little Johnny Howard & suddenly the rul
35 Antares : The policy change that permitted 100% foreign ownership of domestic carriers predated Branson's announcement of a new carrier late in 1999 by almost t
36 Simpilicity : this just in ... Wednesday, 8 March 2006 Branson hopes for Patrick takeover Virgin Group Chairman Richard Branson has revealed he hopes freight compan
37 Oz777 : Makes me cuckle about Branson's claims Tel,l that to all the previous investors who purchased the original VB shares at Branson's list price, but now
38 Simpilicity : Investors in initial launch did VERY well (maybe not investors in IPO). Maybe they'll use 744's ??? Does anyone know if any VS 747's are being retire
39 Antskip : A longer trip can be both good and bad. Depends how much you are enjoying yourself. Sure, if it has been a bad experience with a poor airline, yes, t
40 Post contains links TEAtheB : I was just trying to figure out where your 1-2 hour figure came from - the point I'm trying to make is that a small difference in cruise speed makes
41 Ikramerica : Dude, I'll say it again. You are attributing things to ME that I did not WRITE. Other people talked about the trip length. I never did. Therefor, you
42 Post contains links Antskip : In a discussion at http://skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/t-119734.html, Emirates President Tim Clark is quoted as saying that on the "Dubai to
43 TinkerBelle : I was giving a real example so take it teh way you want..... I said it, Not Ikramerica. LHR-JNB 744's fly in an hour less (actual time) than VS A340'
44 TEAtheB : Sorry - I didn't look close enough. Apologies.
45 Simpilicity : anyway back on topic, does anyone out there have any other ideas as to what Branson has plans to use in way of aircraft? If he uses 744's he won't wan
46 Ikramerica : No worries. That's one reason I thought the 346 would be good (even though it is a little slower). Ultimately people don't compare the hours, but the
47 BlueShamu330s : Give me a drag of what you're smokin ! The difference is indeed negligible, whilst for 99% of the time we are all being streamed by ATC at the same s
48 Oz777 : Give me the benefit of your clairvoyance. I have been in the industry long enough to recognise the difference between two engines on one wing and two
49 Post contains links Jacobin777 : well.....according to this website, there is a good chance it might be the 777, though I'm not so sure if the article got the -200ER versus the -300E
50 Zeke : I did hear last year EK drivers approached to see if they would like to fly LHR-SYD-EWR-LHR or LHR-SYD-LAX-LHR in 345, and LHR-EWR-LAX-SYD-SIN-LHR or
51 Zeke : Having flown the 744/343/346, this statement is incorrect. The 343/346 has a higher optimum than the 744, and time to climb is about 5 minutes longer
52 Post contains links Zeke : Seems they maybe recruiting http://%20www.vega-aviation.com/a340%20captains.htm
53 AT502B : I can also confirm this, on a recent A346 flight from JNB - ATL on SA- the flight attendants were complaining about the 70 min longer flight since sw
54 Simpilicity : " target=_blank>http://%20www.vega-aviation.com/a340...s.htm A340/600 - Line Captains Major Air Carrier in Asia is seeking for A-340/600 Captains for
55 Zeke : I would guess that would be for the return trip, the differance in speeds is M0.03 not M0.06. The 346 would be burning about 30-40t less fuel per sec
56 Oz777 : Zeke, with all due respect I hope that you read and understand the written word in your work than you show here on a.net. Go back and read what I spe
57 Zeke : Oz, I used to fly long haul on the 744 with one of the airlines you suggested I should talk to. I now fly 333/343/346 with the same airline, I do enc
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What Name For The New Qantas Discount Airline? posted Sun Nov 9 2003 13:45:41 by Lauda777
What Aircraft Does SQ Operate On LAX-TPE-SIN? posted Wed Jul 12 2006 01:46:08 by Ssides
What Routes For TG's New 777-200ER's? posted Sun Jan 15 2006 18:01:13 by Warreng24
Bigger Aircraft For Christmas / New Year Holidays posted Sat Dec 11 2004 23:36:31 by JoKeR
What Aircraft Do You Associate With An Airline. posted Tue Sep 30 2003 00:37:57 by B727
What Aircraft For Aces/Avianca? posted Sat Mar 16 2002 19:15:33 by 717fan
What Aircraft For A 10 + Hrs. Flight? posted Sun Jun 24 2001 23:15:56 by Henpol747
What Aircraft For AN/ANZ? posted Mon Nov 6 2000 05:10:34 by VH-BZF
Emirates DXB-SYD - What Aircraft / New Biz Class? posted Thu Mar 27 2003 10:59:06 by Nickofatlanta
What Aircraft Next For Your Fave Airline? posted Sun Jun 23 2002 21:01:38 by Basteward