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GE And RR On BA 777  
User currently offlineLukasMako From Austria, joined Feb 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5532 times:

Why does BA uses engines from two manifacturers for their 777 fleet.

I think they ordered GE-90 orginally but the newer ones have Trent-800.

Why is that?

[Edited 2006-03-07 14:09:38]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

"Why"? It's a tangled web...

BA chose GE for their first 777s and ended up with 29 of them. (A couple of years ago two of the oldest ones were returned to Boeing so they now have 27.) The order came at the same time as GE bought BA's maintenance base in Cardiff. Both parties denied a connection but the rumours persisted that GE were making BA too good a deal to turn down.

A few years later BA ordered 16 more 777-200ERs but with a higher MTOW than the earlier GE-powered 777-200ERs. It was at this time that they switched to RR. It has been reported that BA had all manner of problems with their GE90s at first and this influenced the decision to switch to RR. And/or RR are BA's more 'traditional' supplier and they fought hard (and successfully) to displace GE. And/or BA had more confidence in RR's "bigger" version of the Trent than in GE's competing product.

In short, I don't know!  Smile


User currently offlineJayhup From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

GE was looking for a launch customer for their -90's and BA was looking for someone to buy the overhaul facility in Cardiff so BA bought the -90's and GE bought the overhaul facility (and paid BA a premium from what I was told).

The -90's experienced problems in the very begining and when BA went to order more 777's they opted for the RR to be in line with the rest of the a/c at BA (757, 767, 744)...

JH


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...  duck 

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...

Just cant agree with that mate.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5472 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Just cant agree with that mate.

EVERYTHING looks better with Trents...  Wink


User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

GE90's on 777 looks great (read better)! I especially like the bigger size, and the huge fan diameter. The titanium fan leading edge gives the engine a silver lining over the black composite blade, which I think is unique and a beauty. The lesser number of fan blades , and the extra "space' between each blade doesn't make the engine look clutterd and hidden. Just my thoughts!

PM :
Anyways, PM, how do you tell a 777 with Trent or GE90 from a distance without seeing the fan blades/hub markings? Size is one way I guess. The nacelles and inlets are pretty much the same. Care to share a few tips? Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting GEnxPower (Reply 6):
Anyways, PM, ... Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?

It was a flippant comment more than anything but (a) I have shares in Rolls-Royce, (b) I think the GE90 has a "swollen" appearance that is unattractive, (c) I can't forgive BA for buying GE90s (and thereby losing RR the ANA contract) so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (d) I hate how GE are taking over the world so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (e) I just do, (f) the Trent doesn't look "swollen", and (g) I have shares in Rolls-Royce. I think that about sums it up.


User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

Some info on BA B777s,

B777-200A-GE 90-76B to Middle East/Gulf

B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf

B777-200ER - RR Trent 895 to N.America, Asia


KrisYYZ

[Edited 2006-03-07 15:21:52]

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
Quoting GEnxPower (Reply 6):
Anyways, PM, ... Wanna share with us why you prefer Trent in terms of "looks"?

It was a flippant comment more than anything but (a) I have shares in Rolls-Royce, (b) I think the GE90 has a "swollen" appearance that is unattractive, (c) I can't forgive BA for buying GE90s (and thereby losing RR the ANA contract) so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (d) I hate how GE are taking over the world so I'm prejudiced against the GE90, (e) I just do, (f) the Trent doesn't look "swollen", and (g) I have shares in Rolls-Royce. I think that about sums it up.

LOL!!!! Great post!! Big grin



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLukasMako From Austria, joined Feb 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Quote:
Actually, the real reason is that Trents look better on the 777 than GE90s do...

Thank god beaty is still in the eye of the beholder ...  scratchchin 


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1280 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

RR Just the best engines! Big grin

GE Not bad not Bad.... Smile

In the end its only a personal opinion again. I have been on ba 777´s with GE and with RR i preferred the RR sound when on T/O the pilot gave full thrust!

Cheers leo



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

The GE's are way quieter. They give off a bass filled humm opposed to the high pitched painful noise of the RR engines


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineExperimental From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 8):
Some info on BA B777s,

B777-200A-GE 90-76B to Middle East/Gulf

B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf

B777-200ER - RR Trent 895 to N.America, Asia


Not entirely correct, IIRC the small bunch of "B777-200A-GE 90-76B" are based at LHR and are mainly used to "Secondary" US destinations, eg. PHL , BWI...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joseph K Wagner



All of the 777 based at LGW are "B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B" however some of these are at LHR. These are distinguishable by there "G-VII*" registrations, From LHR these are used to everywhere on occasion with the regular exception of the LHR-BAH-DOH, LHR-DXB, and LHR-AUH-MCT routes.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Butcher - UK Airshow Review



The "B777-200ER - RR" are used from LHR to everywhere. These are distinguishable by there "G-YMM*" registrations. IIRC some of these have a couple more F seats hence there more common use to BAH, JFK, DXB...


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mike Moores


[Edited 2006-03-07 17:59:28]

User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
the two "B777-200A-GE 90-76B"

"Two"? BA still have three 777-200s with GE90-76B.

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
"B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B" ... are distinguishable by there "G-VII*" registrations

Actually, G-VIIP to VIIY have GE90-90B (i.e. not -85B).

Quoting Experimental (Reply 13):
some of these have a couple more F seats

Which ones? My understanding is that they all have 14F.


User currently offlineLukasMako From Austria, joined Feb 2006, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:03:49]

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:04:15]

User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

Quoting LukasMako (Reply 15):
What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

That's my understanding too.


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3697 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 14):
Which ones? My understanding is that they all have 14F.

Yes there are 3 aircraft with 17 First seats G-ZZZA/B/C.They are confirgured
17/48/24/127 and are three of the original five 777 delivered(the other 2 have been sold)They are normally used on the KWI/DXB/AUH/MCT routes but can turn up anywhere that does not required a long range aircraft.
These aircraft do not have long range crew rest areas.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineTigerotor77W From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4926 times:

I think the 777 looks marvelous regardless of what engines are on her... but I'm a little biased toward that plane. Big grin

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
nd/or BA had more confidence in RR's "bigger" version of the Trent than in GE's competing product.

I also read that at the time GE didn't want to grow the engine any further, because of the huge development problems, but later with a new CEO changed that policy. (I believe I read that in the book "777, the technological marvel")

Quoting PM (Reply 5):
EVERYTHING looks better with Trents...

especially the a330. But that's a different topic  Wink



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Actually, part of the reason why the G-YMM* (-236ER) aircraft have RR engines is that when they were ordered BA cancelled orders for several 747-436s with RR RB211 engines. Picking the Trent on the newly ordered 777s was a way of avoiding paying penalties to RR for cancelling an engine order. The operational benefits also apply too though, as mentioned.

As for layouts:

G-ZZZA; ZB; ZC are, as has been said the three aircraft with a high First layout (17F 48J 24W 127M)

G-RAES; G-VIIA; IB; IC; ID; IE; IF; IG; IH; IJ; IK; IL; IM; IN; IS; IU; IV; IW; IX; IY are fitted with a standard layout (14F 48J 40W 122M). Of these IA-IG and IL are LGW based.

G-VIIO; IP; IR; IT are the LGW based leisure configured aircraft (40J 24W 219M).

G-YMMA; MB; MC; MD; ME; MF are the LHR based three-class aircraft (36J 24W 215M) that also have larger crew rest areas for longhaul (Used to PEK, etc).

G-YMMG; MH; MI; MJ; MK; ML; MM; MN; MO; MP are the LHR based four-class aircraft (13F 48J 32W 127M) that also have the larger crew rest areas (Used to PVG, etc).



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

personally, I like both, the GE-powered and RR-powered BA's....both have a unique and distinctive sound to them..

.......and I'm hoping that BA will go with some 773's also.. Smile


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"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

I honestly think the PW's look the best on the 777...both the -200 and the -300. Too bad it just wasn't that great of an engine. The GE is next in line for me. I just don't like the RR on the 777...or the 757 for that matter. The only airliner that ever looked and sounded great with RR for engines was the beloved Tristar...I miss that beauty...

User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1219 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 8):
B777-200 IGW- GE90-85B to N.America, Caribbean, Gulf



Quoting LukasMako (Reply 15):
What is the difference between IGW and ER. Wasn't it called orginally IGW and then simply renamend ER?

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:03:49]

[Edited 2006-03-07 18:04:15]

I was under the same impression. I know that AA's 777s are also technically called IGWs, but they use trent 892s with 92,000 lbs of thrust wereas the GE-90s on the BA IGWs only have 85,000, which maybe insufficient for an ER rating. I had always thought they were the same just renamed, but you raise an interesting point. Anyone know how to answer.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineTigerotor77W From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

I was under the impression that the MTOW was different for the IGW and ER versions -- that the IGW was the original MTOW increase (to 632,000 pounds or thereabouts), but at the urging of certain carriers (AF? I think?), Boeing bumped it up to -200ER classification with a higher MTOW (656,000 pounds).

[Edited 2006-03-08 03:50:01]

25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : The GE-powered GE90-85B IGW's have 84,700 lbs of thrust and the RR-powered Trent 895 ER's have 95,000 lbs of thrust.. the lowest rated 777 they have
26 AA777223 : Which of those are considered ERs and which are IGW's? I know the 76 lbs aircraft are just A models with no extra title.
27 Post contains images TinkerBelle : Somebody here said you can buy a GE engine at Walmart. I like the high pitch noise the GE's make on takeoff roll.
28 Post contains images Jacobin777 : hmmm....not sure by what you meant...... but according to BA they call it the 777-200IGW and 777-200ER... hopefully we'll see some GE-Powered 777-300
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