Omoo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3016 times:
My Apologies if this has already been posted.....
Quote: Delta, AirTran compete for 3 coveted new gates at Hartsfield
Atlanta Business Chronicle
Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET March 5, 2006
The world's busiest airport is adding three brand-new gates, creating a rare opportunity for its two largest airlines to land coveted real estate.
Both Delta Air Lines Inc., which is in bankruptcy, and AirTran Airways are expected to try to convince Atlanta airport General Manager Ben DeCosta that they should have exclusive access to the gates, which could allow them either to add additional flights or routes and potentially millions in new revenue.
AvConsultant From United States, joined Feb 2006, 1190 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2993 times:
This should be interesting. I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
GSPITNL From United States, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2672 times:
FL Will not get these gates I dont believe. DL will need them to continue its growing stragety from ATL. DL will not need BK approval to get them and DL will just about waste the lease money on the gates to keep FL from getting them. Plus I don't wanna see FL expand from ATL. If ATL isnt good enough for their HQ then they need to move and find a different airport.
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
Drerx7 From United States, joined Jun 2000, 3220 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2629 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): This should be interesting. I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
What kind of dumb s**t is that for ATL to do? They might as well keep their tails in Atlanta--cause thats a lost cause.
Lightsaber From United States, joined Jan 2005, 4947 posts, RR: 85 Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2616 times:
There will be a cat fight for these gates. DL wants them. FL wants them... probably everyone else wants them. Another article I read noted the airport will almost certainly issue these gates as common access gates preventing anyone from "hogging" a gate.
I expect that we'll be hearing about this for a few months.
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
WN won't move a HQ for 3 gates... ATL's tax system would not appeal to WN unless concessions are given.
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2): They are growing and DL is shrinking,
???? I'm all for FL expanding, but DL is growing like mad at ATL (and now JFK). DL's "shrinkage" is concentrated at their smaller hubs and some spokes. I stand behind my statement that these gates will be fought over.
ATL airport management has stated again and again that they wish to build up an inventory of common use gates, so I doubt that anyone will get the gates for their own exclusive use. Recall that to get FAA funding an airport must offer gates to all applicants. In fact, if an airport is seen as preferentially excluding any airline, previous FAA payments can be demanded back in full! Yes, an airline can be offered the option of building new gates... but after a while the FAA starts to frown on that. Hence the push at many airports to have more common use gates (especially for international flights).
I'm not saying every airline gets everything, but if another airline wants a "toehold" into ATL, ATL needs to work on getting them gate access or start writing big checks back to the FAA. Once someone has a "toehold," any additional gate access is the airline's concern, not the FAA's so much (somewhat of a concern, but the allowed "hammer" isn't as Draconian). Of course this doesn't stop DL and FL from flooding the market to drive out the new entrant... but that's a different topic.
Lightsaber
Need to throw a party every six months to organize the place.
FlyPNS1 From United States, joined Nov 1999, 3774 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 6): DL gets more gates and adds more flights to Latin America, Europe, and Africa.
The 3 new gates will be domestic gates, so they won't do DL any good for adding international flights. There's plenty of room on Concourse E to accomodate all of DL's international growth.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 5): I'm all for FL expanding, but DL is growing like mad at ATL (and now JFK). DL's "shrinkage" is concentrated at their smaller hubs and some spokes.
The statistics from the ATL airport would say otherwise.
DL + DCI Passengers Dec 2004: 5,564,000
DL + DCI Passengers Dec 2005: 5,137,000 (decline of ~400,000 passengers)
Airtran Passengers Dec 2004: 910,000
Airtran Passengers Dec 2005: 1,133,000 (increase of ~ 200,000 passengers)
While DL is adding a lot of international flights at ATL, they have been cutting domestic capacity back substantially. The net effect is that DL is actually carrying fewer passengers throught ATL.
However, I expect the airport authority will try to keep the gates common use so that they are used when needed. This will prevent any airline from attempting to monopolize gates they don't necessarily need.
Quickmover From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2422 times:
I wonder what is avg. number of flights that go out of Deltas gates each day? Airtran recently disclosed they were averaging around 9 flights a day per gate.
SeeTheWorld From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1080 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2390 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
What a complete and utter waster of airport funds, and it makes them look STUPID!
Teixeim From United States, joined May 2005, 131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2379 times:
Is there any real reason gates have to "belong" to a certain airline? Many foreign airports do not "assign" gates to -any- airlines; instead the gates are used by various companies during the day's flights. It seems like a lot of real estate going under utilized the way we do it here in the U.S.
I think the gates in Atlanta's Concourse E are used by multiple airlines. I don't understand why the rest of the airport wouldn't be that way as well.
Please don't flame me because I'm raising this topic - just give an honest opinion.
RwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 2513 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2296 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 7): The 3 new gates will be domestic gates, so they won't do DL any good for adding international flights. There's plenty of room on Concourse E to accomodate all of DL's international growth.
Right, but my point was that DL has done more for the city of ATL than FL could even fathom. Why not continue to reward those who reward you?
SeeTheWorld From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1080 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12): Right, but my point was that DL has done more for the city of ATL than FL could even fathom. Why not continue to reward those who reward you?
Hmmm, that's not a very accurate or sound argument. I guess it depends on whom you ask. Many in Atlanta would say that because of AirTran they can now afford to take the family on a vacation to Disney World, as an example. The amount of money saved, and then spent throughout the rest of the Atlanta and Georgia economy, because AirTran disciplined fares for locals and visitors alike is in the billions.
Without AirTran, DL's losses would be significantly less, Atlanta wouldn't be the busiest airport in the world, and less people would be traveling to and from Georgia.
Gr8SlvrFlt From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1489 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2248 times:
The new gates will be on the south end of D-Concourse where AirTran already uses ten or so common use gates. My understanding is that AirTran wants to pay the same rates as they are for their C-gates while the city wants to charge a higher rate. When all is said and done I'm sure AirTran will end up with them. Delta already has half of T, all of A & B, half of C, about a third of D, and most of E.
Iowaman From United States, joined May 2004, 3482 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2228 times:
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12): Right, but my point was that DL has done more for the city of ATL than FL could even fathom. Why not continue to reward those who reward you?
Why does DL need these gates?
- DL's expansion is mainly International.
- These gates are in the E Concourse which is domestic only.
- DL domestic passenger counts out of ATL are down
-DL's domestic flight count is actually down a little since the big bang or whatever they called it, where they had hourly service to places like MSP from ATL, which was cut back
-DL's flight per gate usage is down on the domestic side.
On the other side:
- FL is expanding domestically out of ATL and needs more gates
- FL has many new planes coming
- FL will create lower fares, which then in turn will stimulate demand, and hopefully fill more seats on the DL side, making it a win-win situation for the airport
Common use gates would be good, but if any one airline gets these I hope it's FL.
Because part of Delta's strategy is to protect its market share at all costs as well as to hurt its competitors. The only problem with the strategy is that it has landed them in bankruptcy. They tried to dispose of US Airways, JetBlue, and to a lesser extent, Independence Air (which did not fail because of anything Delta did). Delta's strategy has failed miserably.
Make no mistake, if Delta can get those gates, they'll get them (even if they have to fly the planes around in circles) just to prevent AirTran from providing more low-fare service to the people of Atlanta.
AirFrnt From United States, joined Jul 2004, 2509 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): This should be interesting. I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
Probably not their HQ, but I would not be completly surprised to see WN enter ATL like they did DEN. It would be a good one off market for them to feed into all of their other "mini-hubs."
Gr8SlvrFlt From United States, joined Jan 2002, 1489 posts, RR: 21 Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2166 times:
I've not heard of anyone from Atlanta trying to court Southwest. I seriously doubt it. Phoenix is interested, though. AirTran has considered moving back to Atlanta several times and probably will before too long. AirTran's major training, recruiting, marketing, IS, and reservations facilities are already in Atlanta.
SeeTheWorld From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1080 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 18): Probably not their HQ, but I would not be completly surprised to see WN enter ATL like they did DEN. It would be a good one off market for them to feed into all of their other "mini-hubs."
While Atlanta is similar to Denver in the sense that all traffic and revenue would be incremental, I doubt Atlanta is even in their top 5 next new cities. Herb said he'd never serve Atlanta because the city slammed the door on the Charlie Brown Airport idea. However, now that Herb's not calling the all the shots, who knows. I just think there are so many better places for them to go right now.
Srbmod From United States, joined Mar 2001, 14184 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2122 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Just a few months ago, DL was talking about dropping some of their gates @ ATL. FL has tried to get open gates on D several times in the last few years, but lost them to DL. They tried to get the former TWA gates, but DL got them for DL Connection operations. DL also got one of US Airways' gates as well to use for DL Connection ops. AirTran has had to use the common use gates on D, and occassionally another airlines' gate when they didn't have a flight in (I've seen AirTran flights [And even a Hooters Air flight] operate from Air Canada's gate. AirTran's has even used Midwest's gate. With the US/HP merger, that does give AirTran some additional usage of those gates. With Independence Air gone, that's another common use gate that's available unless AirTran's already pounced on it.
Delta could add these additional domestic flights without having to use additional gates by speeding up turnaround times. They could actually add gates on their concourses, especially since some of their 767 fleet has been retired. You can practically fit three narrowbody gates in the space of two widebody gates. That's kind of how FL added four gates back in late 1999-early 2000.
SBN580 From United States, joined Mar 2005, 401 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2122 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 1): This should be interesting. I understand an ATL delegation is going to Dallas to pitch WN to relocate it's headquarters. I wonder if these gates could play a roll?
An airline called "Southwest," with it's homebase in the "southeast?" They fly everywhere anyway.... Bentonville, Arkansas might be a better choice. j/k
North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
Congaboy From United States, joined Jan 2006, 307 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2098 times:
The gates will go common-use...more revenue for the city, better utilization, just a growing trend in the US market. Look at MCO, MIA, PHL, and soon PHL. I think FL and DL will lobby hard, but someone mentioned earlier that there are other common-use gates already on that concourse, so how would things be consistent by going to a long-term lease for either of them? You have one carrier that is bankrupt, and the other with almost weekly schedule change practices (depending on market conditions). If you were Ben DeCosta, what would you do, strictly from a business perspective?
David From United States, joined Mar 2000, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2098 times:
A little bit off topic- but does anybody think that FL is positioned to be the first LCC to Europe. They could use the new 737-700ER as they already have 737-700's. If they did I assume they would use the common use gates in E.
SeeTheWorld From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1080 posts, RR: 6 Reply 25, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2066 times:
Quoting Congaboy (Reply 23): The gates will go common-use...more revenue for the city, better utilization, just a growing trend in the US market.
I think you're right. In addition, the DOT has been very vocal about airports shifting gates to common-use status whenever possible, and most have done so when given the opportunity. It plays better politically and economically.
26 DAYflyer: So much for the legitimacy of the DL strategy....... Precisely.
27 Wjcandee: Well, that's a very grown-up thing to say, isn't it? Does the fact that FL employs many folks at ATL make a difference? Does the fact that it is hiri
28 SeeTheWorld: THANK YOU! And, plus, what does having their headquarters in Atlanta have to do with anything? It's a couple of hundred people. Given the option, a c
29 Congaboy: They would most certainly use the common-use gates in Concourse E (all of E is common use), as they do on Concourse D...but honestly, David, I dont s
30 MalpensaSFO: Great so Air Tran can add another dozen or so flights to Florida?
31 Gr8SlvrFlt: Does the fact that FL employs many folks at ATL make a difference? Does the fact that it is hiring many more folks and not cutting wages as opposed to
32 Iowaman: If that's where the planes are needed, why not.
33 OttoPylit: Its a pretty reasonable understanding that the gates will go to DL. They are lobbying hard for them and there will be some domestic expansion from ATL
34 Lightsaber: Good numbers. I was thinking aircraft movements which drive gate demand. But I must compliment you on rebutting with nice statistics. Too rare on a.n
35 PHLBOS: Since Hammerhead D opened at PHL several years ago, FL has always had 3 gates (D14, D15, & D16) to themselves. About a year ago, they recently got D1
36 MikeTheActuary: Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that Concourse E at ATL is the international concourse. I'm also pretty sure that the MSNBC article cited by
37 Congaboy: What makes you so sure the city is interested with DL, and for that matter, FL? Expansion by other carriers is limited because of the current gate si
38 Wjcandee: Joe Leonard has spent A LOT of money in Atlanta. The price of absolutely everything is negotiable, particularly to profitable companies with good cre
39 OttoPylit: Of course your right, the gates are up for grabs for anyone really. Its just that from the airlines on D, it doesn't really look like anyone is wanti
40 Tornado82: It's either that or some place like BMI, or MLI... so what's the difference?
41 Spartanmjf: We would welcome them in Maryland! Fly BWI!
42 HPRamper: There's also this airline called "Northwest" whose homebase is nowhere near the Northwest. It's generally a good idea for a headquarters to be close
43 Steeler83: I thought that FL had its headquarters at MCO... Look at US and PIT, they did move their hq to DCA, but their biggest hub for a while was at PIT. Wha
44 Lincoln: Is this the construction going on near D8 and ... well, D-something-other-than-8-since-I-can't-remember-right now? When I was there two weeks ago it
45 PHLBOS: Courtesy of the J7/FL merger; J7 was originally HQ'd in ATL. Once the lease expires, FL could conceivably move its HQ back to ATL. True, but that mov
46 Steeler83: True, DCA is a focus city for US now. I didn't realize that FL merged with another airline that had its HQ at ATL. Given the market that is in ATL, i
47 AkjetBlue: wouldn't it be raher funny if B6 or WN jumped in and got all three gates ... certainly would be a surprise... WN once said ATL was on their radar, and
48 Srbmod: The last gates that were up for grabs prior to the shift in airport policy (Any open gates automatically become common-use, before this policy was en
49 OttoPylit: Nah, WN said they have no interest in ATL unless DL loses presence there. And JB kinda learned their lesson the first time. They may one day try to r
50 AirFrnt: More to the point, B6 is drowning in new jets, and WN is making a point of jumping into new markets that they previously ignored, DEN being the most
51 Quickmover: How near are these gates to being completed?
52 Luv2fly: WN could use those three gates for a minimum of 10 flights per gate per day.
53 Lincoln: I thought WN wanted 10 flights per gate per day on average... wouldn't three gates give them a theroretical capacity of 30 flights/day?
54 Luv2fly: Well they want any destination they serve to have a minimum of ten flights per day. Now if they wanted to be aggresive they could actually schedule e
55 Iowaman: I think that's a little excessive, 15 per day per gate is just too much. Do you have a source for this, maybe by 2015 they will be up to 200 daily.
56 Srbmod: While DL giving up a gate on B would be way out of left field if it happened, in a sense, yes it would become common use. As for the date of the chan
57 BH: Not saying that this is all of DL's problems, but they just seem to throw money at things first then think of how to make the money to cover the new
58 Congaboy: End of the summer...they will bring the first gate online sometime in June, then phase the rest in as they are completed. Absolutely, BH...they gave
59 SBN580: Quite true. I always cut Northwest a little slack on that as there is historical precedant. The name "Northwest," going with Northwest passage and wo
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United States, joined Feb 2006, 1190 posts, 
WN won't move a HQ for 3 gates... ATL's tax system would not appeal to WN unless concessions are given. 
From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 2513 posts, 
They fly everywhere anyway.... 
Bentonville, Arkansas might be a better choice. 
j/k
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