B727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 317 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2536 times:
I finally flew KL after 8 years after flying them many times before! I must say, the seats seem to be smaller and older, but the crew are still really nice. Anyway, here are the 2 (what found to be intersting) senarios while landing.
Flight #1, JFK - AMS on a 744. As we were approaching Schip. (AMS) we came in pretty fast but the plane was not shaking due to any wind distubances. No airbkrs were deployed to reduce speed while reducing altitude, and we were passing over the ground pretty fast (and believe me, I am a frequent flyer on 747s and other wide bodies, so I could notice the difference in speed compared to the ones before) Of course, we also ended up using almost the entire runway to stop the giant! BTW, the landing was very smooth and the blowing snow and water effect due to the thrust reverse were spectacular.
Flight # 2, AMS - DXB on 777. During the DXB final approach, the flaps were not fully down. In fact, after we had already passing the runway markings the pilot brought down the flaps to their max (they were still coming down even after we had just touched down)
Anyway, both of these events can be absolutely normal, and I just never got to experience them, untill last Thursday! By all means, I do not want to make this to seem or reflect anything negative on the KLM pilots and crew. My return trip will be 777 DXB-AMS and then changing to NW A330 AMS-EWR! I have never flown on an A330, and if anyone can tell me which is the best window seat, I still may have a chance to get it changed!
So youre responces to both senarios on flights #1 & #2 as described above are welcomed. I am just curous to know the reason(s).
It started as a DC10 then changed to an A330 and in April KL should be doing her own route again.
About the topic: AMS is a difficult airport as to noise and wind but that doesn't account for the DBX part. Different guidelines maybe required from the airlines. I'm 100% sure the pilots acted as required in the KL book they wouldn't risk anything.
KLMyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2444 times:
Ja, the early morning and late night noise abatement approaches to 06 and 18R can get a little hairy if you dont do your planning absolutely right! As for the 777, I'll ask a mate over in that unit. More to follow....
Grbld From Netherlands, joined Dec 2005, 353 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2354 times:
Regarding your first experience: If the approach was done with a slight tailwind, this gives you a higher groundspeed. To the "trained" eye, such as yours out the side window or us in the cockpit, it seems as if you're flying MUCH faster than normal. Especially since you do the approach with a headwind, it can look a bit unusual.
As for the aircraft using the entire runway, it's actually good practice to aim for a certain taxiway, especially at big airports. This is something to think about even before starting the approach. There may be different reasons to aim for the exit at the end of the runway, such as a shorter distance to the gate, or going easy on the brakes. It's even possible on long runways to do a "long landing" and touch down farther down the runway for this (as long as you're well within landing performance limits). Braking too early and then taxiing slowly to the intended runway exit only keeps the runway occupied longer. On the most frequent landing runways at AMS (18R and 06), KL's 744s are likely to go to the end anyway for decreased taxi-time to the gate.
About your second experience: If you are right in the fact that the flaps went down to full position just before touchdown, something went wrong. Either they selected landing flaps too late or they came in too fast. The latter is more likely.
The flaps at landing settings (ie. all the way out) have built in speed protection. If you fly too fast with those big panels hanging out, you may cause structural damage. So at Flaps 30 setting, if you go above a certain speed, they'll automatically retract to Flaps 25. If you then decelerate again, they'll automatically go back to 30.
B727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
Thank you all, and especial thanks to Grbld for detailed response.
Lfutia, I am checking my itenraries on line and so far, it is showing A330 equipment! Although, I do not mind a DC10 since they are going out of pax service soon. In any case, I certainly hope to grab a good seat!