Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

American Airlines have asked the FAA to upgrade Venezuela to CAT I in order to prevent the Venezuelan govt. from suspending 70% of their Venezuelan flights. AA currently operates:

1X daily DFW-CCS (738)
1X daily SJU-CCS (752)
4X daily MIA-CCS (A300, 752, 738)
5X weekly JFK-CCS
1X daily MIA-MAR (738)

The Venezuelan govt has set a March 30 deadline for the FAA to upgrade Venezuela back to CAT I. If Venezuela isn't back in CAT I by March 30, then the Venezuelan Govt. will suspend all of DL and CO flights and will limit AA to only 2X daily CCS-MIA on 738 equipment.

AA believes that Venezuela meets CAT I criteria and that the FAA should visit Venezuela's airports to verify their claim.

Source (SPANISH):
http://www.eluniversal.com/2006/03/09/eco_art_09206D.shtml

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33287 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
will limit AA to only 2X daily CCS-MIA on 738 equipment.

Small correction, but it is 3x daily that they will be limited too, the same amount of service that Aeropostal, the only Venezuelan airline in the US, serves MIA with.



a.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I, Hugo Chavez notwithstanding?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAirA380 From Bangladesh, joined Mar 2006, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Venezuela government can't bully FAA to certify that the airport as CAT I. It should purely based on meeting of CAT I requirement


I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):

Small correction, but it is 3x daily that they will be limited too

I stand corrected  Smile

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
the same amount of service that Aeropostal, the only Venezuelan airline in the US, serves MIA with.

Mark, don't forget about Santa Barbara's CCS-MIA with Primaris's 757-200, I flew on that plane last summer  Smile

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11974 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

I think this is a bit disingenuous. AA may have "strongly implied" that they want this issue resolved, but they did not overstep their bounds and actually "recommend" something to a government agency, from what I can see. As quoted here in another article, in English:

American Airlines backs Venezuela's efforts to have an FAA inspection, company spokeswoman Martha Pantin said.

"We fully support having the FAA coming to Venezuela to conduct a full inspection," she said. "We continue to be optimistic that this situation will be resolved." American Senior Vice President Peter Dolara, visiting Caracas Wednesday, called on the FAA to visit Venezuela as soon as possible to review its aviation infrastructure, according to media reports in Caracas.


User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 3):
Venezuela government can't bully FAA to certify that the airport as CAT I. It should purely based on meeting of CAT I requirement

Please kindly refer to previous threads on this issue. It has been abundantly established that, for once, there is no question of politics involved in this issue. Only respect for bilateral agreements and a fair treatment for Venezuelan carriers is being sought after the country has made enormous positive changes to its civil aviation supervision, airport equipment and ATC personnel training.

For your information (website:http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/ then click document in Excel) FAA International Aviation Safety Assessment programme certification is contingent upon ICAO guidelines.
If ICAO determined a few months ago that Venezuela met over 84% of requirements and qualified for an upgrade, then why has the FAA not done so ? There is no bullying here at all.

Please notice that, since the whole issue came to the forefront and made the headlines a couple of weeks ago, neither the FAA nor any US diplomatic or government staff member has issued a denial of Venezuela's claims or a warning of US retaliatory measures simply because there is nothing to retaliate against.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5310 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

The thing that I don't get is that Citgo, headquartered in Houston, is owned by Venezuela's state oil company. If the Venezuelan government carries out its stated intentions on limiting U.S. access to Venezuelan airports, then executives and other employees traveling between CCS and IAH will have much longer travel times, since a connection at MIA will be needed.

Regardless of the motivation of the Venezuelan government, it just looks as if the government, while creating aviation policy, is ignoring pragmatic concerns of Venezuela's oil industry.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 7):
Regardless of the motivation of the Venezuelan government, it just looks as if the government, while creating aviation policy, is ignoring pragmatic concerns of Venezuela's oil industry.

I know it would be traumatic, but the bulk of the inconvenienced would be American company executives, which by the way there are plenty of them based in CCS.

But regardless of Mr. Chavez and his policies, Ricariza has a very valid point here, this policy does not safeguard the safety of American travellers, if Venezuelan airlines were not good enough (which is not the case), then those should be banned from the US, if the US believes Venezuelan standards are not good enough (which according to other international instances is not the case either) , then US airlines should be banned from flying there. But this is clearly a biased, protectionist and political motivated move, that retaliates on the other government for not complying with US point of view and has nothing to do with safety.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 8):
I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?

That's because of the FAA's protectionist and unfair policy of preventing a country's airlines from flying to the US based on "irregularities" on that country's aviation infrastructure.

If a country has an "unsafe" aviation environment, then it is unsafe to ALL airlines including American ones. It does not make sense that an airline gets banned from the US simply because one airport in its country of origin has some "irregularities".

Venezuelan airlines despite having old fleets, have very high safety standards. The last airliner crash in Venezuela was in 2000 when a DC-3 crashed on takeoff in Ciudad Bolivar. Before that, I think we have to go back to the 80s or 70s.

Venezuelan airlines have plans to renew their fleets if Venezuela gets back to CAT I. They are willing to invest some important bucks in order to have newer planes.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
American Airlines have asked the FAA to upgrade Venezuela to CAT I in order to prevent the Venezuelan govt. from suspending 70% of their Venezuelan flights

OMG... This goes to show how much of a child AA has become post 9-11..

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
AA believes that Venezuela meets CAT I criteria and that the FAA should visit Venezuela's airports to verify their claim.

For all those of you who say AA doesnt have friends in Washington... think again!


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3832 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
I think this is a bit disingenuous. AA may have "strongly implied" that they want this issue resolved, but they did not overstep their bounds and actually "recommend" something to a government agency, from what I can see. As quoted here in another article, in English:

The "recommend" verb is used in the article. Also I don't think its a translation error. Check this article out, it's from the Houston Chronicle.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3710547.html

It says:
"American Airlines said the FAA should raise its rating on the South American country's airlines and airports."

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 10):
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 8):
I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?

That's because of the FAA's protectionist and unfair policy of preventing a country's airlines from flying to the US based on "irregularities" on that country's aviation infrastructure

That's exactly my point...

Quoting Bogota (Reply 9):
...this is clearly a biased, protectionist and political motivated move, that retaliates on the other government for not complying with US point of view and has nothing to do with safety.

Couldn't have said it better..



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 7):
then executives and other employees traveling between CCS and IAH will have much longer travel times, since a connection at MIA will be needed.

Why MIA?? CM partly owned by CO flies to CCS twice a day and one of those flights offer immediate connections to/from IAH.

AA is the U.S. Airline to lose the most if the FAA doesn't upgrade Venezuela to Cat. 1. It's on AA own interest, not on Venezuelas interest, they are lobbying for the upgrade.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

AA is the U.S. Airline to lose the most if the FAA doesn't upgrade Venezuela to Cat. 1. It's on AA own interest, not on Venezuelas interest, they are lobbying for the upgrade.

AA will lose no matter what happens. It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.

If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get upgraded. By 2006 holiday season, MIA will get more than 12 daily flights from Venezuelan airlines. VH is going after CO, DL and AA with flights to DFW, IAH and ATL. Conviasa is going after CO and AA with flights to NYC (JFK).

They rather fight the competition than to lose their flights.

For Venezuela's sake, I hope that AA has strong lobby capabilities in Washington so that I can fly Venezuelan airlines to the US.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33287 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
AA will lose no matter what happens.

AA isn't losing no matter what. The compieitition won't hurt them that much, especially since the market is underserved in the first place. And all this talk about airlines like Aeropostal going to DFW, ATL, etc. is just that - talk. Not happening.



a.
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3641 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA isn't losing no matter what. The compieitition won't hurt them that much, especially since the market is underserved in the first place

They will lose, 10% or 50% of their pax, who knows? but they will lose. Don't you know that 90% of pax flying between USA and Venezuela are Venezuelan?
Did you know that before Venezuela was downgraded to CAT II, Venezuelan carriers used to have about 50% of the marketshare?
Venezuelan airlines can attract pax if they offer better fares and service than AA and trust me, they will.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
And all this talk about airlines like Aeropostal going to DFW, ATL, etc. is just that - talk. Not happening.

You sound like an AA employee. I sincerely hope it happens. Hopefully we'll see many YV registered planes in MIA in the near future.

Your good contributions to this forum are many times shadowed by ignorant comments like this.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.
If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get upgraded. By 2006 holiday season, MIA will get more than 12 daily flights from Venezuelan airlines. VH is going after CO, DL and AA with flights to DFW, IAH and ATL. Conviasa is going after CO and AA with flights to NYC (JFK).

Specially if AA 3 daily are MIA-CCS-MIA only.
About those fleet expansions? Venezuelan airlines will be buying/leasing Boeing? A Boeing sale worth hundredmillion U.S. Dollars could sure make some people in the U.S. Government react positively to AA requests.
If VH wants to fly to DFW and IAH, they rather try it via MAR instead of CCS non-stop. MAR does suffer a lot because the lack of good international flights.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
About those fleet expansions? Venezuelan airlines will be buying/leasing Boeing?

Detailed info here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2642425

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
AA will lose no matter what happens. It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.

I totally agree with you
Saludos desde Noruega
Alex!!!
 wave 



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33287 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 17):

You sound like an AA employee. I sincerely hope it happens. Hopefully we'll see many YV registered planes in MIA in the near future.

Your good contributions to this forum are many times shadowed by ignorant comments like this

Where did I ever say I didn't hope it happens? I am very excited about Ascerca and others plans to expand service to the US, especially because Aserca is planning on connecting MIA with non-stops to destinations not currently served, Barcelona and Barquisimeto.

At the same time, like all small Latin airlines, all they are doing is talking, and I won't buy any of it until those planes are delivered. Every South American airline always announces ambition expansion plans that almost always falter. Unfortunately, they have built a poor track record on following through with their plans, and when they actually do - i.e. Aserca's first attempt at MIA service; Southern Winds to MIA/MAD - the service is often short lived. Of the dozens of South American (and not just Venezuelan) airlines that say "We will be flying to MIA..." in the past six years or so, the only one that has followed through successfully is Santa Barbara.

My comments aren't ignorant, they are realistic based on past history. Just because you want to buy the hype because of your passion for Venezuelan airlines, which is great, doesn't mean my opinion is ignorant.



a.
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
My comments aren't ignorant, they are realistic based on past history.

Based on a generalization of South American airlines. I fail to recall any announced services to the US by Venezuelan airlines that never took place.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Just because you want to buy the hype because of your passion for Venezuelan airlines, which is great, doesn't mean my opinion is ignorant.

It looks like you haven't read the news articles that say that Venezuelan airlines have secured loans worth USD 200+ million in order to get the planes. The lessors are indentified and they are only waiting on the FAA to put us in CAT I.

No wonder the decision of the INAC to ban US airlines was because of strong lobbying by Venezuelan airlines.

So yes I still keep my statement regarding your opinion which is based purely in a vague generalization and lack of information regarding Venezuelan carriers' financial data.

I'm very optimitic about Venezuelan airlines' plans for 2006, but I know there's a chance that those plans actually won't materialize, although based on what I've read, it looks that it is highly probable to see them materialize.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I

No, there isn't. The reason Venezuela is not CAT I is because the Bush Administration wanted to squeeze Chavez

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
OMG... This goes to show how much of a child AA has become post 9-11..

Actually, they have a very legitimate complaint here.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33287 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 22):
Based on a generalization of South American airlines. I fail to recall any announced services to the US by Venezuelan airlines that never took place.

Aeropostal to JFK and FLL; Santa Barbara to FLL in agreement with Spirit; Santa Barbara MIA-MAR; Aeropostal has "announced" MIA-PMV for April, but has yet to put it in GDS. They also say they will be flying to Orlando and Atlanta this summer, but have yet to apply with DOT for Atlanta rights. I really want to see Aeropostal expand just as much as you did, but so far it is all talk, zero action.



a.
25 Civilav : I know you mean well and things can get a little heated up here in the forum. I myself too, have become very suspicious of Aeropostal because I know
26 Gigneil : Citgo execs and employees will simply fly a corporate jet if this comes to pass. They can certainly afford one. N
27 RICARIZA : I have a real question, with no hidden agenda. On another thread a Venezuelan A.Netter said that there were some issues with the lack of VORs and rad
28 B4real : Actually MEX would be an easier connection than MIA should the CO and DL routes be suspended and AA be slashed. I currently have a project in CCS, an
29 RICARIZA : You also have the option of BOG and its many connections to cities in Venezuela.
30 B4real : True, but for me (and many others in the US possibly effected by this possible stoppage), MEX is easier to get to than BOG, and the trip can be done
31 Adriaticus : I would also interpret that as a signal they may be looking for ways to review and eventually straighten up the situation, saving face at the same ti
32 Lamedianaranja : Like mentioned already in a couple of posts, even if (mind, if) Venezuela's aviation infrastructure (air traffic controllers, ILS) is not up to stand
33 RICARIZA : Exactly!!!!
34 Adriaticus : So no news on this yet? Is March 30 still the date for CO, DL last flights to Venezuela, as well as AA's reduction, (at least for the time being)? __A
35 MasseyBrown : Many of the people posting in this thread do not have a very clear idea what Catergory 1 and Category 2 mean. The FAA does NOT inspect foreign airport
36 Post contains images Lamedianaranja : So whose are those inspectors on board? (1) no restrictions (2) foreign carriers may fly but with N-regs (3) foreign carriers are banned That's what
37 MasseyBrown : Any FAA presence should only be to confirm compliance with and enforcement of Venezuelan CAA direction and to determine the adequacy of CAA audit pro
38 Pdpsol : What "financial data" are you talking about? There is not a SINGLE publicly-traded Venezuelan carrier; none of these carriers files financial stateme
39 Post contains links Laxintl : A little update... http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1142373704.html March 14, 2006 The United States will suspend flights by Venezuelan airlines if
40 Post contains images Latinplane : Crap! If the situation is to get any more tense, I don't see either Venezuela or the U.S. budging. The only airline that would fly between VEN and th
41 Lamedianaranja : Isn't that a bit late if the deadline stands for the end of March? Or do you think Venezuela will extend it by 1 more month but run the risk of not b
42 Coa747 : I would like to hear what the FAA has to say about the matter. Since they are the ones at the center of the dispute. Just what are their reasons for k
43 Luisde8cd : The Aviation Authorities here in Venezuela have just ratified that their deadline of March 30 stands despite the FAA announcement of visiting Venezue
44 Post contains links Laxintl : Continental put this out today.. http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060317/1261483.html?.v=1 I suppose CO can channel some passengers via COPA's twice daily se
45 N1120A : So you have to be publicly traded to be a safe carrier now? I wonder what Spirit has to say about that?
46 Pdpsol : N1120A, my post had nothing to do with carrier safety but, rather, the availability of financial information. Spirit and many other privately-held ca
47 Post contains images Adriaticus : Diplomacy at its finest, I say. On a first stage, DL and CO are loosing far more returns from their investments than already-strapped Venezuelan carr
48 Post contains images RIHNOSAUR : "If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get nupgraded.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA Asks FAA To Look Into LGB Slot Assignment posted Sat Jul 20 2002 20:32:37 by FATFlyer
FAA Upgrades Ecuador To CAT I. posted Thu May 25 2006 15:19:38 by Luisde8cd
Continental Upgrade To First Question. posted Thu Nov 23 2006 16:52:29 by XAAPB
AA MD80 Comes To MDH! (Photos Too) posted Sun Oct 8 2006 05:04:25 by Atrude777
FAA To Review Age 60 Rule posted Thu Sep 28 2006 01:01:57 by Jpdflymhtmlb
AA Flight Threatened To Divert Over Gay PDA posted Wed Sep 20 2006 22:33:30 by Johnboy
AA 757s Return To DTW! posted Mon Sep 11 2006 05:13:35 by Capt.Fantastic
AA 777 - Starting To Roll With FAs Standing posted Thu Aug 17 2006 17:30:39 by Dolinja777
OnePass Elite Upgrade To BusinessFirst, Domestic? posted Sat Jul 29 2006 05:44:28 by Luisde8cd
Why AA Switching Some T9 Flights To T8 At JFK? posted Mon Jul 24 2006 23:45:02 by RJpieces