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Bloomberg: Lufthansa Interested In 748I, 748F  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

Unfortunately, a short block only:

Lufthansa Considers Passenger, Freight Versions of Boeing 747-8
March 9, 2006 12:18 EST -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's second-largest airline, said it's interested in both passenger and freight versions of Boeing Co.'s planned 747-8 airliner.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conews&tkr=BA:US

EDIT: typo

[Edited 2006-03-10 03:43:00]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12317 times:

I'm not sure why, when LH can "misuse" the A380.  Smile

User currently offlineOzair From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 843 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12226 times:

Not surprising really, LF are big in the cargo market and the 747 is the undisputed king of this area.

With such a large current fleet of 747 passenger aircraft it also is not hard to continue with the same pilots, cabin and maintenance staff and support facilities, if the economics are right of course!  Wink


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12204 times:

Here's the full article:

By Susanna Ray and James Gunsalus
March 9 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe's
second-largest airline, said it's interested in both passenger
and freight versions of Boeing Co.'s planned 747-8 airliner.
Lufthansa is giving Boeing proposals on how the Cologne,
Germany-based airline would want both the 747-8, a proposed
longer version of its largest airliner, and the new 787 model
configured in the event it buys the planes, Boeing Germany
President Horst Teltschik said in an interview in Berlin.
Boeing approved production of the 450-seat 747-8 in November
in a challenge to Airbus SAS's 550-seat A380 as the Chicago-based
company tries to hold onto the jumbo-jet market it created almost
four decades ago. The A380 will overtake the current 420-seat 747
model as the world's biggest commercial aircraft when it enters
service later this year.
Lufthansa will have the world's second-biggest fleet of
A380s once all 15 are delivered starting in 2008. That wouldn't
damp its interest in Boeing's giant plane, Michael Lamberty, a
Lufthansa spokesman, said in an interview today in Berlin.
``We think we have an advantage, because Lufthansa hasn't
ordered Boeing planes in eight years, so they run the risk of
becoming dependent on Airbus,'' Teltschik said.
The German airline plans a ``large order, in the
billions,'' for either the 787 or Airbus's competing A350 in
2006, Lamberty said. ``This is the big year for plane
decisions.''

Very interesting and quite indicative of a large potential 748/787 order IMO.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12131 times:

I'd imagine that there's an awful lot of politics in this.

BA, Lufthansa, and Air France are obvious targets for Boeing in pre-selling the 748. But Blair and Chirac have very publicly identified themselves with Airbus in general, and the A380 in particular. Merkel is new to the job but must be equally involved. So they'll all be leaning on their flag-carriers to stick with Airbus; or, if they insist on buying Boeings because they're the best commercial choice, to delay any public announcements as long as they can.

BA just said that they have a 'preliminary agreement' on 777s with Boeing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if all three airlines have similar 'agreements' on the 748; and very possibly 787s as well.

What counts at this stage is securing delivery slots; formal orders and public announcements can be delayed until later. In view of the political angle, Boeing would be more than happy to play along.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12113 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
Merkel is new to the job but must be equally involved

This is a leap of confidence on your part. Merkel has shown that she doesn't give two shits about the status quo if it is inconvenient for her.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12073 times:

You could very well be right, N328KF. But she's still a politician. She'd be as interested as the other two in making sure that any announcements that will lead to 'Jobs To Be Lost?' headlines should be carefully-timed; preferably combined with a lot of 'good news' employment stories in other industrial fields.


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

It sure as hell sounds like the 748 is starting to blow some heat Airbus way. I know it hasn't ben ordered yet but with all the talk about blue chip airlines 'looking at' the 748, Airbus must be taking notice. Anyways, it'd make sense for LH to order the 748 but we all know how politics can come into play here.

User currently offlineGlacote From France, joined Jun 2005, 409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
BA, Lufthansa, and Air France are obvious targets for Boeing in pre-selling the 748. But Blair and Chirac have very publicly identified themselves with Airbus in general, and the A380 in particular.

This quote does not live to the level of your usual comments... Indeed AF was the launche customer of the B777, publicly slammed A340 economics, whereas LH was recently feature on Airbus frontpage and its fleet acknowledges their "loyalty" to Airbus. I won't even comment on BA being pushed by Blair to go the A380 way...

Are you the real NAV20 or did you hack his account?


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4697 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11827 times:
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Quoting Glacote (Reply 8):
Indeed AF was the launche customer of the B777,

their first order was in 96!


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11777 times:

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 3):
Very interesting and quite indicative of a large potential 748/787 order IMO.

I really hope so and believe it is very likely......



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9167 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11737 times:

Mrs.Merkel has no influence whatsoever on a commercial decision since Lufthansa is not State owned anymore but a fully privately owned company, listed on the Stock Exchange of the largest 30 German companies (DAX).

The times of Political interferenace are gone, at least in Germany, I cannot speak for France or Britain, but I see AF operating 773s instead of 346s.

The "mis-use" of 380s would be prohobotove for a commercially successful company. There has been a lot of speculation about LH's future orders, but chances for the 747-8 and the 787 are good since they meet the requirements of LH in many sectors.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11723 times:

A few weeks ago there was a thread starting like this:

Quoting Bolu340 (Thread starter):
LH will announce a big long range order in March which will affect as well A300600 Fleet.
Lets wait and expect big surprises!!
Best Regards

It looks like there is a little bit more in that rumor than many people have thought.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11697 times:

This isn't new news. LH has been interested in a 747 of this size for several years now. The greater engine efficiency only add to it.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11510 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 9):
Quoting Glacote (Reply 8):
Indeed AF was the launche customer of the B777,

their first order was in 96!

To some extend, they were launch customers for the 777, the 777-300ER to be precise.  Wink

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
I see AF operating 773s instead of 346s.

This is also because AF has a real love affair with GE. Had the A346 offered a GE option, then we might have both fleet types flying.

LH won't let themselves be influenced by politics when it comes to their fleet. LH is a private company, and despite possible critique by any politician, they can choose the fleet they want. And also, they made it very clear that they don't want to be operating aircraft from a single manufacturer, which means Boeing is still a prime contender along with Airbus for the next LH widebody order.

One priority (although probably not the highest at the moment) for LH would be to replace the 767s DE is operating, and I believe the best choice would be the 787-8, because it has the suitable range and capacity. Then comes the question of the 787/A350 and 747-8 and also an A300 replacement. LF is surely interested in the type, and they still wet lease 742s they used to own after they phased them out because they need the heavy lift capability. Their MD-11F fleet won't cut it, and the A380F is not the right aircraft for oversized cargo (just look at 5X and their order for 747-400Fs, which they plan to operate alongside the A380 for oversized cargo, while the A380 will be used primarily as a parcel freighter).

As for LH getting the 747-8I, Mayrhuber said himself that this was the plane they wanted 10 years ago, and maybe to some extend still want. The A380 won't cut it as a 1 to 1 replacement for their big 747 fleet. The 747s can operate into places where demands don't justify the capacity of the A380 and where the A346 is too small. I stand by my previous posts by saying LH will eventually order the 747-8 in some way.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11496 times:

Good to hear that again after similar comments two weeks ago at the Singapore show. I´m pretty sure LH will buy 747-8Is. LH doesn´t want a monopoly with one manufacturer and the new Jumbo Jet fits perfectly into their fleet.

I always wondered how LH Cargo can to with MD-11Fs alone when all competitors operate 744Fs. Theer must be plenty of routes where a 744F makes much more sense. The competition proves that. LH Cargo is the only major Cargo operator relying on MD11s alone.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9167 posts, RR: 29
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11400 times:

LH cargo simply cannot do with just the MD11s, a cargo airline that size and with their mission simply needs the 74F. The decision to sell the remaining calssics to Air Atlanta was Ok since it would not be economical to operate a mini fleet of 3 to 5. They will have access to 744Fs through JADE and an order for a combination fleet of 747-8F and passenger version makes much sense.

The question is - do they still need the 777F as an MD11 replacement in the long run. Rather yes, if they want to keep the market share

Next, the 787 would be an ideal replacement not only for the DE 767s but also for the A300s and for the 340s as well. One type in various versions could do the trick, much better than the A350.

Lets see what happens in the next 2 weeks.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11393 times:

I think it`s not a question if LH will buy the 747-8 but when.
Perhaps they are waiting untill Boeing has a launch cutomer for the 747-8 because they don`t want to become one themselves. This is what they did with the A380.
The 747-8 makes sense for LH between the A346 and the A380.

Regards


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9167 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11318 times:

Lufthansa was the launch customer for the 737 and LH has over 45 years of experience as a Boeing customer. They bought the -100 -200 -400 versions of the 747, they have these planes in the fleet since 1970, the new version could not be worse than the 340-600 I guess.

Boeing would be delighted to have them back ordering new planes and sure as hell sweeten the deal as much as LH wants.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11289 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
Boeing would be delighted to have them back ordering new planes and sure as hell sweeten the deal as much as LH wants.



Quoting Dalecary (Reply 3):
Lufthansa is giving Boeing proposals on how the Cologne,
Germany-based airline would want both the 747-8, a proposed
longer version of its largest airliner, and the new 787 model
configured in the event it buys the planes, Boeing Germany
President Horst Teltschik said in an interview in Berlin.

Would be a hell of a deal for Boeing and Airbus knows that, too but it would not be such a loss for Airbus when LH is ordering additional A380s.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
Next, the 787 would be an ideal replacement not only for the DE 767s but also for the A300s and for the 340s as well. One type in various versions could do the trick, much better than the A350.

That is the bid advantage of the 787 and what makes it so interesting to LH -let is see in how far LH is still planning with DE they are many rumors but if DE stays and is in the shape of ordering new planes the 787 would be an ideal replacement for the 767 and 757-300.
The 757-300 are hard to sell so maybe Boeing could take them back and give DE/LH a good price on the 787.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8872 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 11254 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 14):
The 747s can operate into places where demands don't justify the capacity of the A380 and where the A346 is too small.

Which routes would they be ?

What is the projected growth on those routes by the time the 748 would come into service ?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 14):
I stand by my previous posts by saying LH will eventually order the 747-8 in some way.

I don't see them needing to be in a rush to order them considering the time frame to the earliest delivery date.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 16):
LH cargo simply cannot do with just the MD11s, a cargo airline that size and with their mission simply needs the 74F. The decision to sell the remaining calssics to Air Atlanta was Ok since it would not be economical to operate a mini fleet of 3 to 5.

I would have thought for their long sector flights, very little difference between the 748F and 777F in capability. I am guessing it would be in the order of an additional 15t in the 748F above a 777F. Don't have hard data on the 748F or the 777F. Would be interested in a comparison between the two on Asian flights like FRA-HKG-FRA, FRA-SIN-FRA.

777F would almost double the payload over a MD11 on longer sectors.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11185 times:

Quoting Glacote (Reply 8):
AF was the launche customer of the B777



Quoting Trex8 (Reply 9):
their first order was in 96!

AF was the launch customer of the B777-300ER Version.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
But Blair and Chirac have very publicly identified themselves with Airbus in general,

Since when Blair, Chirac and Merkel are buying aircraft for BA, AF and LH ???  sarcastic 
The time for "political" orders is gone for BA, AF, and LH.


Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
Lufthansa was the launch customer for the 737 and LH has over 45 years of experience as a Boeing customer. They bought the -100 -200 -400 versions of the 747, they have these planes in the fleet since 1970

That's not enough reason for ordering the B747-8 if they don't really need it.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11179 times:

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 17):
Perhaps they are waiting untill Boeing has a launch cutomer for the 747-8 because they don`t want to become one themselves.

What's teh downside to being a launch customer if at all you're gonna order it pretty early?? I can only think of upsides.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11158 times:

I don´t think LH should order the 748 right now. Their 744 still have some time before to be removed. Over the next 5 years LH can see how demand between the 380 and 346 can be matched. I think they should at first get some operational date to see if a plane between the 346 and 380 is needed.

Regarding the 787/350 Boing has the advantage that they could offer LH something to replace their A300, but on the other hand Airbus has the better replacement for LH`s 343. That could change when Boing really comes out with an 787-10, but that has to be seen. So I would say Boeing-Airbus 40:40, first service Boeing.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11140 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 23):
I don´t think LH should order the 748 right now. Their 744 still have some time before to be removed. Over the next 5 years LH can see how demand between the 380 and 346 can be matched. I think they should at first get some operational date to see if a plane between the 346 and 380 is needed.

The only problem with that is they'll lose valuable slots unless they do what BA just did.


25 Zeke : Sounds like sales hype, hear the same words in a car yard. Making do with what you have and having cash in your pocket for a rainy day is better than
26 Boeingguy1 : It dosent matter if they order them now or in 2007... the 748 wont have its maiden flight for a few years, giving plenty of time for the 744s to be u
27 PanHAM : They do need a replacement for 30 744s and they need a freighter in that size as well. The 744s mjight not be replaced 1:1 with 747-8s but an order b
28 JoFMO : But what I mean is that they should wait and see if they really need a 3rd large widebody aircraft (346, 748 and 380). If the market really goes into
29 SNATH : One of the problems of being a launch customer is that, the early frames might have teething issues which are resolved in later frames. Some recent e
30 Trex8 : not to beat this to death but while AF was the first customer to receive it, it was BR who ordered it first.
31 Hirnie : Every new type of aircraft had,has and will have some technicall problems. Some more, some less. Those problems appear when beeing introduced enroute
32 Pelican : Wellrna new aircraft could have teething problems and a launch customer wouldrnsuffer from those problems. The delivery could be delayed - just lookr
33 Post contains images TinkerBelle : Thanx for the reply guys.. I guess my point was if they just don't wanna be the launch customer but will order the plane maybe as the 2nd customer (o
34 Zeke : Thanks, thought in flight int article said the 748F was back around 110t or less with sectors above 5000 nm. Also thought the MD11F was being loaded
35 NA : LH has masses of A340-300s and A330s, of which all are newer than 50% of the 744 fleet, and most less than 10 years old. LH doesn´t need to hurry to
36 DAYflyer : After reading the aforementioned article, I would guess that LH will likely order the 747-8I and the A-350. They like the 747, but for medium size and
37 OldAeroGuy : The data I have gives these payloads for 5000 nm range: 747-8F: 124 tonne 777F: 102 tonne MD-11F: 70 tonne
38 Zeke : Thanks from Flight 14 feb - 113t. What range is that for you ?
39 Thorben : The 747-8 is not a surprise, they've been asking Boeing for it for years now. Ther real news is: I think they'll go for the A350 here, just makes more
40 Post contains images Johnny : Probably they will end in ordering as follows: A388 add 5 B748I around 20 A346 add 13 as a replacement for the B744 plus little increase in capacity -
41 Leelaw : I thought the 783 was being considered to replace the A306, haven't heard about replacement of the "hair dryer" powered (but sleek) A343?
42 Flying-Tiger : Leelaw, IMO the A300-600 replacement at Lufthansa is over-hyped. The fleet is quite small, and partially leased out. There are only few routes where t
43 PanHAM : The figures I quoted are for the max payload. It may be economical to run any of the three over 5000 miles with a lesser payload, especially eastboun
44 Thorben : I'm not sure about the A346, they still have seven of them coming, I'd rather guess they'll someday realize their ten options on the A380 and order a
45 Post contains images USAF336TFS : My . LH will order the 747-8, both flavors and will jump on the 787 bandwagon, probably the Dash 3 version. I found it interesting that Lufthansa's CE
46 Leelaw : If LH goes for the 783, is it then a contender/candidate to be a launch customer for the 787-10 as an A343 replacement?[Edited 2006-03-10 16:21:55]
47 Post contains images USAF336TFS : I wouldn't be surprised, and it sounds like you wouldn't be either.
48 Trex8 : isn't a 787-9 sufficient to replace the A343, I thought the -10 was for people who wanted even more capacity than a A343/772
49 Columba : If you read this it sounds more like they are heading towards the 787. Besides LH wanted a joint Star Alliance purchase and most Star Alliance airlin
50 TinkerBelle : I think the 789 has less capacity than the A343. The -10 version will definately have more capacity than the A343/772.
51 Post contains images Johnny : @ Columbia And Star Alliance Airlines have ordered the A350 as well...  [Edited 2006-03-10 16:38:42]
52 Columba : Most of them went for the 787 though........
53 Post contains images Johnny : @ Columba (without I.. Most of them haven´t ordered yet... Let us hope we will never see the ugly B787 in LH Colours!
54 DIA : By far, the best reply. Nice to see LH more-than-likely flying 748s in the future.
55 Post contains images Columba : We agree to disagree
56 Post contains images JOHNNY : @ Columba OK...
57 Post contains links Johnnybgoode : Looks like Wolfgang Mayrhuber (LH CEO) visited Boeing yesterday. Here's an excerpt from an article, titled 'LH looks at 747-8', that can be found at:
58 Pelican : Sure they can (and sometimes do) offer favorable deals for big employers, but I think it's quite absurd to think politicians can put big (privately o
59 OldAeroGuy : About 5500 nm. We are talking metric wt. Correct?
60 N1120A : The 748F would also offer LH out sized cargo capacity and nose loading, which the 777F cannot
61 Columba : ......and converted 747-400 freighters -like suggested above-would lack this ability as well.
62 A342 : Source ? And if they wanted a joint purchase, they should have ordered the aircraft together. Talk about discounts... But obviously it wasn´t that i
63 Post contains images NAV20 : Who is implying that, Pelican? This notion seems to have started with Glacote misreading (or NOT reading ) a post of mine in which I said that purcha
64 LTU932 : Definitely not places like LAX, NRT, SFO, MIA. Of course not. But there will be a widebody order, and the first thing on LH's list will be a 767 repl
65 Zeke : As far as I know they don't have that ability now, its not that important to them. A few years ago I remember a similar article came out, back then i
66 N1120A : Almost all, if not all, of the 747 freighters that have flown with Lufthansa have had nose loading.
67 LTU932 : That is correct. Only a few 742Fs didn't have that, but this is because they were special freighter conversions (during their time in the PAX fleet,
68 Zeke : That may have been in the case in the past, however the aircraft have been disposed of. If I recall correctly the last of the 742F fleet left in 2004
69 N1120A : The 742Fs went to Air Atlanta on a sale/lease back deal. There is a point where the older aircraft just got too inefficient and LH decided they were
70 LTU932 : That may be true for airlines like FX and ER, but 5X also ordered the 744F for oversized cargo. LF and their position to the A380F shows that the air
71 Nudelhirsch : I have heard from an LH employee (yes, flame me for that weird source...) that LH is investigating possibilities of double type ratings for 747 and 77
72 Zeke : Need to put this into the context that they also purchased a large trucking company. Agreed, domestic work (sectors like BLR-MAA) are not best suited
73 N1120A : UPS has always been the heavy lifter in the US. FedEx has always had the package edge, UPS the heavy lift edge (UPS is stronger in the ground package
74 LTU932 : Maybe not, but then again, they still have the MD-11F. Those TriJets will continue to be the primary workhorses for Lufthansa Cargo for quite some ti
75 Zeke : The ACN of the A380 is less than the 777F or the MD11F in most cases. I have not seen data for the 748F, however with the ACN of the 744F already hig
76 PanHAM : The reason they bought the MD11F is that they didn't have the balls to buy the 744F. From a freight forwardeers point, the MD11 was one of the bigges
77 LTU932 : It is if you for example look at airports like MEX, where I hear the ground is very soft and aircraft have to be moved constantly because of the soft
78 Zeke : Mexico City (Lic Benito Juarez Intl) Apt of Entry 7316' MMMX MEX -06:00* N19 26.2 W099 04.3 Apt Manager 571-30-07. 05L/23R 12966' ASPHALT. PCN 100/F/
79 OldAeroGuy : Mass is important if your runways/taxiways include any bridges.
80 PanHAM : I haven't got the exact dates present, but the commercial upswing of LH came with Mayrhuber's predecessor Juergen Weber. He turned the company around
81 JayinKitsap : That is true when considering pavement, but buried structures are another matter. The weight of all of the wheels in a bogie influence all but the sm
82 LTU932 : Thanks for the explanation. I'm not sure about the 777 (maybe LH Cargo), but I definitely agree to the 787 and 747-8I making their way to LH. I wonde
83 USAF336TFS : Agreed about the 777 entering LH Cargo service... It's an aircraft they've been asking Boeing about for years. Rumor internally (My wife works for th
84 TinkerBelle : 777 was a choice when LH ordered the long ones (A340)
85 Trex8 : well yes and no, as a launch customer for the A340, at the time it was really a choice between the A340 and the MD11 as they wanted a long range airc
86 N1120A : I don't think that balls had as much to do with it as you state. Remember, at the time they still had a rather sizeable 742F fleet and the MD11F allo
87 Columba : Can�t tell you the exact source but it was in many aviation magazines that were covering the A350/787 and it was also posted in various threads
88 Columba : What about Swiss ? In how far will a new widebody order of LH will affect them ? Will they get new airplanes, too or will they just become a feeder f
89 N1120A : If you think about it, the 788 would be an excellent plane for them.
90 LTU932 : And with this aggressive sales team Boeing has, they will fight to the last minute for an LH order. Which makes me wonder if the A346 order was also
91 Johnnybgoode : absolutely. afaik, there were two major reasons why LH chose further A346s: 1 - obviously, if you've got already 10 A346s in the fleet, along with al
92 Thorben : I still remember that quote I read from one LH executive who said they were not the Caritas, when speaking of the decision not to buy the 777.
93 Columba : That was what I had in my mind.
94 Joni : Lufthansa said they're studying the 748, not that they're about to order some. I'm sure that, for instance, Northwest has been studying the A380 and a
95 PM : Perhaps, but it wouldn't be the only choice. With fleets of A332s and A343s to replace (one day) and a short-haul fleet of A320s, surely a combinatio
96 N1120A : The A320 has nothing to do with it and the 788 is more right sized for the Swiss market than the A358 or A359. Given it's lower aquisition costs than
97 Thorben : I guess most Germans don't care whether they are flying Airbus or Boeing. LH has so many 747s and 737s, and there are so many German airlines with 73
98 PM : Well, I wouldn't say "nothing"! It may not be a game-winner but it would be easier to switch crews back and forwards between A320s and A350s than 787
99 Post contains images Columba : They said it loud and clear though while NW never said anything that way about the A380. Besides I believe Lufthansas interest in the 747-8 is much l
100 Atmx2000 : I believe he was referring to operating cost based risk. Well, if they are going to get annoyed with that, then we Americans should get very irritate
101 N1120A : The combination of O&D numbers plus Zuerich's new position as the number 3 hub in the Lufthansa system would enable Swiss to up their lagging yields
102 PM : Maybe, but I think actual operating costs of both types has yet to be demonstrated. Anyway, there cannot be that much in it or Airbus wouldn't have s
103 N1120A : The A358 is 30-50 seats larger and heavier than the 788. It will likely have trip costs at least 10-15% higher with little, if any, decrease in CASM.
104 BoomBoom : Well of course, since the purchaser of the tankers is the government.
105 Joni : I don't live in Germany myself, so you're probably better informed than I am of attitudes over there. However, when most of those planes were bought
106 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Thorben, I'm quite curious what that was.."were not the Caritas"...care to share more information.....thaks.... when the CEO of an airline company pa
107 Columba : As Lufthansa decided to order more A346 they made a statement that they were about to order the 777-300 to strengthen Boeing to compete better with A
108 A342 : Maybe some people outside of Germany don´t know, the Caritas is a christian aid organisation.
109 Post contains images Jacobin777 : got it..........makes sense to me now.....thank you very much..
110 AvObserver : Yes, several years ago, LH asked Boeing to study a 450-seat 747 so the new -8I variant would play right into the capacity class they were looking at.
111 Trex8 : seems like its really 77W/A346 with @320 passengers, 748-I with @420 and A380 with 520. and they are all sufficiently different in capacity that I cou
112 N1120A : This came up again when Boeing was initially offering the 747-400QLR, which would have been a quieter 744ER with about 7900nm range. LH stated that t
113 Glacote : I very strongly disagree on this one. The B787 is expected do have lower maintaince costs but this precisely where there is so much uncertainty. Note
114 Shenzhen : LH is a minority stake holder in Jade, which means Jade isn't a subsidiary. Jade is a stand alone company in which Shenzhen Airlines own a 51 percent
115 Columba : I believe the same, if Boeing gets Lufthansa more airlines will follow -not only A380 operators.
116 BoomBoom : Who did you check with?
117 Joni : Has anyone claimed that using bleedless engines _would_ improve fuel efficiency?
118 PanHAM : Yes, but the investment is not only financial but for opening up Markets through a Chinese affiliate company. There will be some opportunities out of
119 N1120A : Boeing has delivered on performance claims to the point of actually underreporting them. The 787 is not only expected to have lower MX costs, but wil
120 Post contains links and images BoomBoom : Boeing says so: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/174159_electric20.html
121 Joni : I've also heard that Boeing says so, but do others say so?
122 BoomBoom : Has anyone claimed that using bleedless engines WON'T improve fuel efficiency? Besides Airbus, of course...
123 Trex8 : AWST interviewed the 787 engineers in an article last year, half of the 20% fuel improvement the 787 will have over the 767 according to Boeing is fro
124 Sabenapilot : Good post! And fully correct too, BTW. I and many others have said from day one that bleedless technology is only a maintenance simplification which
125 BoomBoom : Do you have a source for this? And for this?
126 Post contains links Sabenapilot : I'd assume you'd be familiar enough with all the Boeing publications on the 787 to have spotted this yourself by now? Whereas every single promotiona
127 Trex8 : to add to other things the PR people got a little carried away with as they didn't quite hear what the engineering people actually said, there is als
128 BoomBoom : You said Boeing acknowledges this. Where did they acknowledge this? This is what you call "acknowledges"? Quite a stretch, wouldn't you say? Where is
129 Cloudy : Regarding bleedless engines...... .....One other advantage Boeing is touting is manufacturing cost. They will be cheaper to build and fix than bleed a
130 N328KF : You might consider that the reason for this could be that, in general, the industry is now used to this interpretation. When is the last time you hea
131 USAF336TFS : Unfortuantely, I do not have the link at this moment, but I believe I've read similar findings on one of NASA's sites as well...
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