Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NE Philadelpphia Question  
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1394 times:

Philadelphia International Airport is completely maxed out in terms of expansion. The only way the airport can grow is if it acquired more land. Since nobody will give the airport their land, the airport is not going to grow. PHL currently handles over 30 million passengers, and airlines such as US and WN continue to add service to the airport already plagued with arrival delays.
This brings me to the question... What kind of airport is PNE? I know that this is the reliever airport for PHL, but did they ever handle commercial airline service, and could they do so again should PHL become more overwhelmingly crowded than it is today? Suppose that should happen, WN could move its operations there, with a few other airlines taking up space. US could use a few gates there, but it would be strictly be US Express service, while the mainline and international service remain at PHL...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineInTheSky74 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1370 times:

I've always wondered the same thing myself....

I know that JetBlue wants to go to PHL, but can't get the gates, etc it wants at PHL.... PNE would be perfect....

Could it happen?

Rob


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

I mean, look at markets like New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles... Their main airports are very crowded with pax. JFK, LAX, and ORD all handle well over 30 million pax. LAX and ORD are among the world's busiest airports, and they have additional smaller airports that handle some of the pax. MDW is considered to be an international airport, as is LGA (I think...), PNE does not necessarily have go to international. It could handle some of the larger traffic, especially WN service. I think that airport would be perfect for WN, B6, and US Express. If WN was to leave overcrowded PHL, PHL would be much less congested. US Express could maintain a few gates there to take some of the regional traffic from places such as MDT, CTP, and Hartford. Since there would be no connections to other destinations with US, this service would strictly be commuter service (come to think of it, would that even work even if PNE was to handle PAX...)


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

PNE once had some service I think TW had express service as did US. PNE has several problems.

First is space. True there is no room to grow but also there is limited highway access and it is surounded by residential neighborhoods. The NIMBY problem at PNE is extreme.

Secondly, the "terminal" is a very small building that is totally unsuited for passenger traffic. The security problems alone rule out any hope of commercial service at PNE.

Simply put, PNE has been religated to general aviation only. It would be wonderful if they could restrict General Aviation out of PHL and make PNE the exculsive airport for corporate jets and private planes. That would relieve some pressure from PHL. But I doubt that idea could get any support.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1342 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 3):
First is space. True there is no room to grow but also there is limited highway access and it is surounded by residential neighborhoods. The NIMBY problem at PNE is extreme.

They should enforce a NIMBY law! They are the nemesis to a regional planner or developler.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 3):
It would be wonderful if they could restrict General Aviation out of PHL and make PNE the exculsive airport for corporate jets and private planes. That would relieve some pressure from PHL. But I doubt that idea could get any support.

I am surprised at this. AGC handles corporate jet operations, several of them as a matter of fact. Before the original PIT was built in 1952, AGC was the major airport for Pittsburgh...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Thread starter):
Since nobody will give the airport their land, the airport is not going to grow. PHL currently handles over 30 million passengers, and airlines such as US and WN continue to add service to the airport already plagued with arrival delays.

It's not that people don't want to give up land... it's that there's not any land left to give up. The river is on one side. I-95 is on another. You can't fill in the river because it's a commercially navigable waterway. UPS could theoretically be moved, but I don't think that gains enough to give the min. separation for simultaneous parallel ILS anyways. You can't take over more of the Hog Island and surrounding area because of the petroleum facilities there... moving that infrastructure would be very costly, and very difficult because of NIMBY's not wanting huge oil tanks/pipelines in their yard. A bit out is the Shipping Yard, and you can't move that, and there are structures in the shipyards that also create problems. Philly is maxed out, a la New York City's aviation problems. Not much anyone could do about it, unless, maaaaaybe, figure out a way with Willow Grove.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
US Express could maintain a few gates there to take some of the regional traffic from places such as MDT, CTP, and Hartford

Eh... WN, B6, FL, etc. could go to PNE, you'd never see US split their operation like that. Very few people are O&Ding from a place like MDT, UNV/SCE (CTP is only NWS speak for State College), and the majority of those pax need the connections offered at PHL.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):

I am surprised at this. AGC handles corporate jet operations, several of them as a matter of fact.

AGC handles some, but PIT still does a significant amount too. Mainly, the West Mifflin/South Hills/Mon Valley area is alot further from the "big money" areas of Pittsburgh now than PIT, and a PITA to get to, so the corp jet guys stick closer to "home" at PIT, which doesn't matter because PIT is well under capacity.

With PHL, does the City authority that owns PHL also own PNE? Without that, you run into Wright-type issues. How much GA traffic goes through PHL on a normal day? I don't really know if it's enough that kicking it out of PHL would cause a significant improvement in airfield efficiency.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1302 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
Eh... WN, B6, FL, etc. could go to PNE, you'd never see US split their operation like that.

B6, definitely. AA has some service out of DAL with their mega fortress at DFW, although that's for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT reason. I even stated later in that post that I don't think US splitting their market like that would work anyway...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
SCE (CTP is only NWS speak for State College),

Sorry, I used to be a Meteorology major before switching to geography... Needless to say, I was a frequent visitor to noaa.gov... wink 

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
The river is on one side. I-95 is on another.

You could try and relocate I-95; that would probably be the only option here... if you had gone completely mad, that is...  crazy  sarcastic 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1300 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 5):
With PHL, does the City authority that owns PHL also own PNE?

Your answer is at the bottom of this page, which also discusses the issue of growth.
http://www.phl.org/news/060228.html


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Sorry, I used to be a Meteorology major before switching to geography... Needless to say, I was a frequent visitor to noaa.gov...

Whoa... I was both too. Meteorology then doubled up with geography.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3473 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1242 times:

There is no way PNE could handle commericial traffic. It is surrounded by neighborhoods and as already noted there are not many major highways close by. It would probably take someone 30-45 min just to get into center city from PNE on a normal day with traffic.

I really don't think there all that much GA traffic into PHL and they typically use the shorter commuter runways and taxi to a different part of the airport than the commericial airliners. So while it may make sense to remove all GA traffic from PHL and relocate it to PNE the little GA traffic in PHL now probably isn't making that much of a difference.


User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 9):
There is no way PNE could handle commericial traffic. It is surrounded by neighborhoods and as already noted there are not many major highways close by. It would probably take someone 30-45 min just to get into center city from PNE on a normal day with traffic

PNE is only about 1/2 mile to I-95 and about 1/4 mile to US 1. It's probably no more than a 20 minute drive to City Hall. I've done it MANY times myself.

PNE has also sold a fair amount of its surrounding land in recent years -- there's now an ice rink on one side and a bunch of big box stores on another (although PNE never really owned that land -- it was a chocolate factory).


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3473 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1217 times:

I know PNE is right between US1 and I-95 and not too far from Woodhaven Rd. However there are quite a few traffic lights on US 1 and that stretch of 95 from Woodhaven rd. down to the city isn't exactly traffic free.

User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1177 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 3):
It would be wonderful if they could restrict General Aviation out of PHL and make PNE the exculsive airport for corporate jets and private planes. That would relieve some pressure from PHL. But I doubt that idea could get any support.

Bad idea. I don't think that GA has much of an impact at PHL. They can always use the short runway 26 if traffic is heavy


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Asiana Lie Flat Business Class - Route Question posted Fri Mar 23 2007 06:55:18 by Tsully
HA 767 (#597HA And #598HA) Question posted Fri Mar 23 2007 06:44:22 by 28L28L
KL Equipment Question posted Thu Mar 22 2007 20:07:15 by N6801
Question On Window Shades During Takeoff/Landing posted Thu Mar 22 2007 16:16:02 by GneissGuy
NY-London Yield Management Question posted Thu Mar 22 2007 09:04:11 by Mptpa
Help Needed On UA And MH Bag Interlining Question posted Wed Mar 21 2007 17:19:47 by SLCNate
Question: HAV Operations => U.S. Airlines posted Tue Mar 20 2007 20:21:19 by MIASkies
JFK Spotters [question] Today LH404 posted Tue Mar 20 2007 14:32:15 by DLH350
Jetbidge Question posted Tue Mar 20 2007 05:12:30 by Gemini573
Ryanair Flightdeck Visit Question posted Mon Mar 19 2007 21:18:33 by EMA747