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Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes  
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13377 times:

Analyst Bob McAdoo of Prudential stated this glaring fact on his downgrade yesterday. He cited all the Boston ftls, and really hinted at Jetblue's obsession with long haul flights as the culprit. Of course long-haul flts offer low CASM, but it is an artificial elixir that spelled doom for the old ATA. He cited the Florida flts and short haulers upstate as profitable.

Since Neeleman has hinted at deferring deliveries in the near term, I believe that Airbus will be the loser once this strategy is implemented (and I believe it will be implemented very shortly). Money will be made on the RASM end with the short to medium haul 190 in the next few years. They're already trying some shorthaul out west with the announcements from BUR.

http://www.newyorkbusiness.com/news.cms?id=13154

http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/in...iness-2/114205650167800.xml&coll=1

[Edited 2006-03-11 14:26:14]

133 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13348 times:

A route is not usually profitable from the start, it usually takes time to build loyalty and loads.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13239 times:
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I think frequency plays a role in whether or not a route is profitable.

User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13179 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
I think frequency plays a role in whether or not a route is profitable.

As in more frequency = profitability or less frequency = profitability?


User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
As in more frequency = profitability or less frequency = profitability?

The general hub rule (I know we aren't talking about a hub, but it is a good analogy in this case) is that if one airline has more flights to more cities more frequently, that airline will receive a disproportionately large amount of the traffic. So theoretically, if jetBlue were to operate 10 daily flights between BOS-LGB/BUR, they would receive a large amount of LA bound traffic. It will not necessarily make routes profitable, however. All it does is give the airline increased market share.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12700 times:

I like the part about the camels, Pat!


What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5893 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12680 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm sorry. More frequency = profitability.

User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12629 times:

Maybe people do prefer Starbucks coffee after all....


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12563 times:

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
All it does is give the airline increased market share.

This is what damn near killed CO way back in 1992. They had 16 daily flight between Greenville S.C., and Greensboro, N.C., and 8 dailies between Kansas City and Omaha, not to mention all the intra-Florida flights they used to have at $19, where you could also add a companion for only 1 cent more. Needless to say, those were the first things to go when Gordon took over.



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineNotbluejet From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11987 times:

That is not the case here though... I do not know of any route that is flooded with flights and not profitable on jetblues end.

The Florida flights are the ones that are saturated with frequency but they are also packed with 90%+ load factors. West coast startups are difficult, usually starting with one to two flights a day. Only ones that came out with a bang that I can remmber is Burbank with 3 dailys. Besides that Im not sure if space is an issue or if there just is no capacity in those markets.

Cities like PHX, ONT, PDX remain with 1 daily evening flight and a red eye return. This prevents RON of aircraft there for a prolonged period of time but in this case may be hurting profitablity with the somewhat inconvenient flight times.


User currently offlineNotbluejet From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11969 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 8):
This is what damn near killed CO way back in 1992. They had 16 daily flight between Greenville S.C., and Greensboro, N.C., and 8 dailies between Kansas City and Omaha, not to mention all the intra-Florida flights they used to have at $19, where you could also add a companion for only 1 cent more. Needless to say, those were the first things to go when Gordon took over.

I do not see how this applies because the editor is stating that the upstate/florida routes are the ones that will help profits.

B6 has no intra-florida routes...... by florida routes he means JFK/EWR/BOS/LGA to florida.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 969 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11860 times:

I don't know how many routes JetBlue has abandoned, but I do know that I really enjoyed them Oakland to Atlanta a few years back. I'm still ticked that they pulled out, lack of profitability, but apparently they just could not compete against both Delta and AirTran, very much to Atlanta's loss. I am sure that lesson has not been lost on their management team. They are a good airline, offering a good product at a good price, and up until very recently, making a profit at it. They aren't in business to lose money, as the big six seem to be, and I cannot believe that lesson is lost at the top.

So a small plea to JetBlue: extend, but don't overextend, keep raking in the bucks, and please, come back to Atlanta! We could really use you.



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

America West tried LAX/SFO-JFK/BOS flights for a year or so, then unceremoniously dumped them because they couldn't make money on them.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 12):
Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

No, they have not. They have historically been high-yield money makers. However, since jetBlue entered the trans-con market from FLL, IAD, BOS, and JFK, the four biggest trans-con markets, the yields have suffered.



a.
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11601 times:

Quoting Notbluejet (Reply 10):
B6 has no intra-florida routes...... by florida routes he means JFK/EWR/BOS/LGA to florida.

I was merely stating an example of the pitfalls of market share.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
However, since jetBlue entered the trans-con market from FLL, IAD, BOS, and JFK, the four biggest trans-con markets, the yields have suffered.

How many airlines operate transcon now? DL (barely), UA, AA, CO, B6, HP/US, any others...?



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11483 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14):

How many airlines operate transcon now? DL (barely), UA, AA, CO, B6, HP/US, any others...?

Between the Miami/Washington/NYC/Boston and Los Angeles/San Fran/Seattle you have...

AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

BOS: AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

JFK: AA, B6, DL, UA
EWR: AA, AS, CO, UA

IAD: AA, AS (ending in June), B6, UA
DCA: AS

MIA: AA, AS
FLL: AA, B6, DL

SEA: AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

SFO: AA, CO, DL, UA
SJC: B6, CO, UA
OAK: B6

LAX: AA, AS, CO, DL, UA
ONT: B6
SNA: CO
LGB: B6
BUR: B6



a.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21507 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11483 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
They have historically been high-yield money makers.

Especially for airlines that offer a first class product. Transcons LAX/SFO-NYC are one of the few routes in the USA where paying F pax are plentiful, and fares on these routes are high in F.

B6 doesn't offer anything but their standard fares, and they refuse to price the last minute one-way fares with the market (and people seem to be willing to pay those fares), so they are losing out on two high-yield parts of flying transcon right there. They also lose out by not connecting pax on to Europe in NYC, so they must rely on O&D non-premium, non-discount (WN) transcon traffic only, and compete with advance Y fares on CO, DL, UA, AA, US and others to do it. Tall order...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMajorNelson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11397 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 11):

So a small plea to JetBlue: extend, but don't overextend, keep raking in the bucks, and please, come back to Atlanta! We could really use you.

Come back to ATL? When did B6 fly there b4?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11373 times:

I think part of B6's problem is that they fly to places like LGB, BUR, ONT and OAK instead of LAX and SFO. The yields are at SFO and LAX - they are preferred for business travellers because they are generally closer to the business centers, plus they offer international connections.

I could see B6 doing well with a couple frequencies to each city, but they're mainly chasing the leisure crowd with their choice of airports, so I don't see how more than 1-2 daily flights can really be that profitable.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11353 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 18):
I think part of B6's problem is that they fly to places like LGB, BUR, ONT and OAK instead of LAX and SFO. The yields are at SFO and LAX - they are preferred for business travellers because they are generally closer to the business centers, plus they offer international connections.

Not really. Since the airports indirectly compete with each other, many airlines are already matching fares across the board. For example, when jetBlue has FLL-LGB fare sales, AA will often match those fares on MIA-LAX. Also, secondary airports are often just as convinent, if not more convienent, to business travelers, especially Burbank and San Jose.



a.
User currently offlineMajorNelson From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11353 times:

Plus - - i just dont think the A320 is the plane for those long trans-cons either -- especially with all the fuel stops we hear about the B6 planes having to make - - that just adds to an already long flight.

I know that as much as i love B6 for Fla and shorter haul, I dont think I'd wanna fly them transcon for those reasons.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5051 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 11189 times:

Quoting MajorNelson (Reply 20):


i just dont think the A320 is the plane for those long trans-cons either -- especially with all the fuel stops we hear about the B6 planes having to make

BINGO...319's would have been the way to go. I can't imagine how much extra $$$ B6 spends on those fuel stops. And remember, nothing west of DEN or SLC was in the original game plan of B6. The A320's were ordered with a 2/3 transcon system out of JFK planned.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineBigdrewfl From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10902 times:

We have only droped out of 2 cities so far..... ATL and SDQ. I think the problem here at Jetblue is that we are not charging enough money for what we offer! I mean we have one of the highest load factors of any airline if not the highest!!! so how can we loose so much? We are not charging what we should!

If someone had asked me a month ago about where I see myself a couple of years from now let's say 8-10 years from now I would have said at my current position here at Jetblue as Flight Attendant. However, you ask me now and I would say I that I truely dont know! And it bothers me because I think Jetblue is a great company we just need to take a big look at the people we are hiring now, specially Management! Because we can either make the company or break it!

Drew


User currently offlineAjiggity3 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10549 times:

Does anyone know why JetBlue was not able to make it work out of ATL?

User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2672 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
IAD: AA, AS (ending in June), B6, UA
DCA: AS

You forgot WN BWI-LAX, and UA BWI-SFO and LAX.

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 23):
Does anyone know why JetBlue was not able to make it work out of ATL?

Ever heard of Delta?

[Edited 2006-03-12 00:40:03]

25 Ajiggity3 : Yeah I live in ATL and fly them (Delta) all the time, and everyone I talk to is not thrilled with them, therefore that serves no explanation as to why
26 Apodino : Since when does CO fly transcons out of BOS? The only places they fly to are IAH, CLE, and EWR?
27 Jumbojet : and I am sure all the people that live in Dallas are not thrilled with AA and all the people that live in Houston are not thrilled with Cont and so o
28 Ikramerica : That was 1 of my two points. You need not offer premium product (F/J), but you should at least charge more for last minute flying. Yet part of the mo
29 MAH4546 : You have to be kidding yourself with such a statement.
30 Jumbojet : Not at all, its my opinion. Its a leisure airline. I flew it once and was totally unimpresssed with them. I will never fly them again. Once the glamo
31 Post contains links MAH4546 : It is your opinion that you don't like them, which is fine. To say they are the least favourite of domestic carriers out of NYC is ludicrous. They ha
32 Jumbojet : I dont think its ludicrous. Like I said, lets see how popular they are when the new planes image gets old. The airline doesnt bother me and I wish th
33 WorldTraveler : No one likes the dominant player - it's just human nature. You may be loyal to them because they take care of you but we all don't want to see someone
34 FCYTravis : Only in the premium cabins. With transcon round-trip coach fares routinely in the $200 range, Cattle Class isn't making squat. If they were otherwise
35 Post contains images APFPilot1985 : Why should you? you dont have any facts to back it up
36 Vega : It's possible that Jet Blue just doesn't have the right mix of routes for available aircraft - that coupled with high fuel costs = low profits. Trans
37 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Uh....... You may want to tell United Airlines and American Airlines that about their JFK-LAX/SFO markets For some unknown reason they have this nift
38 FCYTravis : Please see my reply above. My original post should have been more specifically written to refer to economy-class fares. Sure, F and C are great if you
39 Pauara : I wonder how they are doing with their JFK-NAS service down here i believe it is a once daily flight but it always seems to be full. Paul
40 ChiGB1973 : I think FL is a great airline. DL has always been really good to me too. Both offer biz class, therefore, if you do not pay for it, at least an oppor
41 Kaputt : Uh, not always. Ever heard of Independence Air?
42 Post contains links and images MD90fan : Hey bud!! Good to see another Bahamian on a.net Well im happy to say its going to 2 times daily http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?news
43 767-332ER : And its because people like you this airline industry is in such dire despair. B6's current troubles equate to this very simple theory (as B6 employe
44 WorldTraveler : The fact that B6 flies to secondary airports in California doesn't help. OAK and ONT are big areas but LAX and SFO are still the primary airports in C
45 B752OS : I don't believe CO operates any transcon flights out of BOS. So your single opinion is how the people of NYC, all 19 million of them, think? Yea and
46 Jumbojet : Your right I dont have any facts to back it up. JetBlue's conecpt is clear and simple. TV on demand with new planes and competitive fares. That's it.
47 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : Are you kidding. That is such an untrue statement it is actually funny. Even people who don't like B6 at all can certainly agree that they are not th
48 ChiGB1973 : Totally wrong. If B6 could raise fares that much and get away with it, they would have done it. They'd be lucky to get $5. M
49 Cory6188 : The thing is...B6 sets the bottom for the fares in whatever given market they enter. They wouldn't lose any pax if they raised fares because there's
50 Jumbojet : JetBlueATJFK, I just priced out a sampe fare from LGA to PBI using random dates. Delta (Song) beat JetBlue by $20.00 and that wasnt even for similar
51 Jumbojet : Actually, the one positive thing I have to say about JetBlue is their JFK terminal. Very nice and very modern.[Edited 2006-03-12 04:33:51]
52 MaverickM11 : I have yet to find anyone in the industry that is optimistic about B6's future right now...and the exodus of B6 executives isn't reassuring.
53 767-332ER : You are forgetting that ATL is one of the top O&D markets in the U.S.
54 Tcttx : JetBlue is just learning that the airline business ain't so easy.
55 FCYTravis : That is standard practice on many airlines now. I've heard the same thing on "legacy" carriers, including US Airways. The airlines don't want their F
56 WesternA318 : Not to mention Air Atlanta, New York Air, PSA (the actual original Low Fare Airline) Are you serious? The building itself is at least 40 years old! B
57 WJ : OMG, I couldn't stay on the sidelines after hearing this statement. Terminal 6 at JFK is horrible and is certainly a leading contributer to B6 proble
58 FreakyDeaky : I'm getting tired of everyone accusing JetBlue of being the only carrier that has had to do fuel stops. I suggest you do a bit of research and you'll
59 Jumbojet : Actually, I did. And you know what I found? On the date I checked, DL had only one diversion, the first flight of the day and then it seems as if the
60 Jumbojet : The other problem I have with JetBlue, and this is strickly from a plane buff point of view, their fleet. It's boring and well, plane! Yes, they have
61 InTheSky74 : JumboJet, I know people at Delta - do you know why they didn't make fuel stops? THEIR FLIGHTS WERE NOT FULL AND THEY TOOK ON MORE FUEL! JetBlue's flig
62 Alitalia744 : If you're gonna state a fact bring some facts to prove it, where's the link? Delta had some fuel stops but from what I've understood none of the flig
63 Jumbojet : Really? I checked the seat mappers out and Delta's flights were full as well. Why don't you check the range of the 757 compared to the airbus 320 and
64 Jumbojet : Here are some more facts for you. And this is according to Airbus website. The 320 seats 150 people. the Boeing 757 in song config seats 199. Song fl
65 FCYTravis : Everyone does transcons or nearly-so in 737/A320-class aircraft, and lots of people had to techstop. I don't see what the big deal is. These were near
66 Jumbojet : Hey mon, not to start a war here, but you say whats the big deal? Would you rather make it coast to coast in 6 or so hours or with tech stops clockin
67 F9Animal : The fuel is denting everyone. I don't know about you, but it is even hitting my wallet. If the fuel was at $35-$40 a barrel, we would not even be post
68 FCYTravis : jetBlue is hardly the only airline affected by tech stops - every airline which flies the A320 (or the 737) on near-transcon legs is subject to the sa
69 B752OS : Considering they are THE only airport for an entire region, it only makes sense that they do well for O&D. You take away their feed passengers and th
70 TAL727 : There are no more profitable routes to be 'cherry picked' in the US. In the beginnig B6 had a great competitive advantage with their routes out of JFK
71 Jumbojet : I never said that pal so before you quote me on something make sure you get the facts straight. If you had paid attention, you will have noticed that
72 JetBluefan1 : That's dramatically incorrect. As someone who frequents the JetBlue flightracker, I can tell you that with a fuel stop, the average flight took an ex
73 MiCorazonAzul : of course its a weather issue. But we all know jetBlue bashers are looking for ANYTHING to complain about and BASH jetBlue. It really isn't surprisin
74 InTheSky74 : Funny how Jumbojet fails to realize that ALL airlines with A320's flying transcon had the same problems... I don't see a thread talking about US fuel
75 Jacobin777 : oddly enough, even though people complain about AA F/A's....I've seen those F/A's on many occasions lift those 90 pound overstuffed carry ons....espe
76 MiCorazonAzul : Once again, its about BASHING jetBlue. Oh and this "thread" (I use the word loosely as I think this is garbage) was about unprofitable routes yet som
77 AviationAddict : I don't understand why everyone is so anti jetBlue? Is it because of the company's impact on some of the legacies or what? I mean, they offer a great
78 Lhrmaccoll : Hold on a second here, lets not forget that new routes are generally unprofitable for the first few months, they need to get a strong customer base in
79 Post contains images CentPIT : jetBlue needs to cut the flights that aren't profitable. They can also rearrange some flight times like some of you said. I think jetBlue needs to ent
80 Lhrmaccoll : JetBlue are great. It takes time for routes to pick up. Don't jump on your high horse just yet! A
81 Jumbojet : At this point, we are way off topic and beating a dead horse with this but I clearly remember tracking jetblue flights that day and there were a # of
82 APFPilot1985 : Give me a break, I love B6, they are just about the only airline I fly anymore. When they were Newair i was writing letters weekly to the to make sur
83 Jamake1 : I recently flew Jet Blue and was simply amazed at their product. New airplanes, friendly staff, live TV, XM radio. Overall, a very high quality produc
84 FreakyDeaky : I wish there was a convenient link to diversion information. When it was going on in February, I didn't think to compile a database because I never t
85 AASTEW : Don't recall AA's 767/757 Transcon routes making feul stops. If anyone has any data on AA making fuel stops, please pass along!
86 Jumbojet : The A320 Range (w/max. passengers) 4,900 (5,700) km. 2,650 (3,050) nm. The Boeing 757 (w/max. passengers) 3900 nautical miles. The Boeing flights shou
87 FA4B6 : Welcome to my RU List! You said exactly what I was thinking.
88 Bigdrewfl : I dont really know how this topic has turned from been unprofitable to making fuel stop. If we weren't capable of doing transcons then why do we have
89 Jumbojet : First off, no one said anything about JB not being cabable of doing transcon. Second, While it may be so that JB has the most flights from NY to CA,
90 JBLUA320 : Fact for that one? You do realize how many awards they are winning? A recent example is the Conde Nast best domestic carrier award. Many of the accol
91 MAH4546 : Yes, I am not 100% positive, but I believe so. Continental uses a lot of 737s on EWR transcons, while AA uses mainly low-density 762s that seat only
92 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : Ok that is a little exaggerated, even though I agree it is bad and cramped, they do have a lot more stores. I was there in July and there was like 10
93 JBLUA320 : MAH, I'm not sure-- but are UA or AA still running any transcon 767s? I don't think AA is, but what about UA on the non-ps sectors? Not sure.. Also, f
94 AndesSMF : To get back into topic, I'd like to point out that Mr. Neeleman has been exceedingly successful in starting up airlines, but he had no record of actua
95 PassBureauMgr : No, I don't get what you mean. The DFW hub cut was conversed about for months & months & is still a topic. On the other hand whenever B6 stumbles or
96 Jacobin777 : all five of AA's JFK-SFO-JFK is with either a 762 or 763 and all 11 of AA's JFK-LAX-JFK are with 762's... MIA-LAX are mixed 752/762/738 MIA-SFO are 7
97 MAH4546 : AA is exclusively widebodies on JFK-LAX/SFO.
98 JBLUA320 : Yep, you're right. I was confusing it with EWR. Thanks. JBLU
99 Post contains images FCYTravis : Yeah uh, Steve Jobs only runs one of the most innovative, respected and profitable technology firms in the world. He definitely has shown he can't ru
100 WesternA318 : Umm, are we forgetting Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham and Nashville? It's not their fault that jetBlue is looking more and more like Peoplexpress was befr
101 MAH4546 : And your point is? I never said anything to the contary. Why are you trying to spin things that I said, like "CO uses a lot of 737s" into making them
102 WesternA318 : It wasn't meant in a negative way at all, I was just stating the load factors on two of the markets CO serves. My apologies if I have offended you.
103 Post contains images JetBluefan1 : Yep. AA definitely gets some nice fares there. Nevertheless, a 762 is more expensive to operate than an A320, so ya gotta factor that in too. And tho
104 B752OS : Well let me define what I meant by the region. I was talking about northern Georgia, nothern Alabama and western South Carolina; as ATL is the only a
105 WesternA318 : Oh thats right...it's all the Wal-Mart flip-floppers... Absolutely. If B6 did raise their fares by only a small fraction per segment, the black ink m
106 JetBluefan1 : Not necessarily. JetBlue does attract "Wal-Mart flip-floppers", that's true, but even people who don't shop at Wal-Mart will go out of their way to f
107 UA772IAD : UA operates flights between OAK and IAD You also might want to add SMF to your list- while its still about 100 miles inland, they offer alot of Coast
108 Post contains links Mariner : Which airlines did you have in mind? Morris Air? Well, yes. But June Morris had a little something to do with that. It was her travel company, I am t
109 WesternA318 : She had her own charter flights when Neeleman was getting space to Hawaii, and when he shut down, she took him in as a favor to his dad (or someother
110 MAH4546 : Yes, very true. Totally forgot about that one. As I said at the start, I only did the SF/LA/Seattle areas on the West and the Miami/NYC/DC/Boston are
111 Reggaebird : As a business traveler (312,000 miles throughout the USA and Canada last year) I can tell you that I would fly JetBlue more than the majors because t
112 Luv2fly : They look nothing like Peoplexpress now or ever! Actually the Premium Economy is twice as large as the other 2 sections added together. 12 first 26 b
113 Jacobin777 : nor will they get me to LHR, CDG, FRA, DEL, NRT, PVG....etc..
114 Andessmf : I think we are talking about the same thing, as what I was implying is that from my quick search, Neeleman seems not to have experience actually runn
115 Luv2fly : Whatever, though so far you can not argue with his track record! As all of his previous ventures have been successful.
116 JetBluefan1 : It's not all Neeleman. JetBlue's board is made up of some great people - including Dave Barger. JetBlue also has some people who used to work for CO a
117 WesternA318 : When i last took PS, I was in First, and didn't bother with the cattle class in the back. Just like Stephen Wolf, he ran Flying Tigers for a bit, pai
118 MSYtristar : Airtran doesn't have any problems with ATL-LAS/LAX/SFO, CAK-LAS, etc, with the 73G's. In fact, a recent CAK-LAS flight, which normally is in the air f
119 WesternA318 : MSY, do you know if F9 has the uprated engines? Any idea if FL will come out to SLC or if its even in the plans?
120 MSYtristar : Some of the 319's do. I think they have six of them done...maybe more now. It allows them, for example, to fly DEN-ANC nonstop while taking full load
121 Post contains images Mariner : There are supposed to be 10 x A319's with the upgraded engines. The last A318 - N807FR - was damaged at Finkenwerder when landing after a test flight
122 Post contains images MSYtristar : Ah, ok, thanks Mariner. I knew it was more than five aircraft but less that twenty, so I guessed six.
123 Ikramerica : First, I'd like him to show the research that shows that B6 doesn't do it way more than others. Then I'd like to know why you respect someone just be
124 FXramper : Is it to early to tell how the AUS routes for B6 are going? Cheers!
125 Andessmf : I am not disputin his record, just that he doesnt have a history of long term running an airline.
126 Post contains images F9fan : I suppose that is why AA, CO, DL, NW, UA and US have been hemorrhaging cash over the last six years with DL and NW in bankruptcy, UA just emerging fr
127 PassBureauMgr : I remember reading an article about 4 years ago in Forbes that said Mr. Neeleman gets contacted immediately anytime there is a delay of one of their f
128 Jumbojet : Maybe the tickets were free? Maybe the DL, AA flights were sold out? I don't know why. But as one user suggested above, Jetblue miles can't take me t
129 Post contains images NASBWI : You forgot NAS . Thing is, B6 isn't setting out to compete with the 'dinosaurs' on international routes. So if you're looking for JFK-LHR or JFK-SXM,
130 ChiGB1973 : Still comparing apples and oranges unless you specifically say coach products. M
131 Wmupilot : I suggest you do a bit of research before making a comment stating that all of our flights leave late! Save for the winter storm last month we run an
132 Sllevin : It's absolutely true. Broadly speaking, though, I suspect that people travelling in coach are more cost driven than those in premium classes. By that
133 ScottB : Well, just looking at November, 2005, jetBlue was last in the industry with an on-time arrival rate of 74.6% (i.e. less than 15 minutes late) on 10,1
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