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How Can This IL-86 Make It To US?  
User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11317 times:

Seen these pics of the IL-86 in normal pax config in the US, what id like to know is, how did it make it from Moscow with the range of the a/c? Obviously i had to tech stop, maybe in Shannon? But why wouldnt they just send an IL-62? Thoughts please.


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British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11282 times:

There may be various reasons. Pax numbers, special flights, present the "Russian-Jumbo" or something else.

Georg


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11205 times:

Quoting CalAir (Thread starter):
how did it make it from Moscow with the range of the a/c?


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How did it make it from Toulouse to Bora Bora with the range of the a/c ???

answer : E N R O U T E S T O P !

1 of the pics of the IL86 is taken at JFK. A flight SVO-SNN-JFK was not unsual, especially in the 80s when this pic was taken.
OThe original version of the Il62 couldn't do SVO-JFK nonstop either.

The 3 other pics were taken at LAX. Nothing says that those planes were coming from Moscow.
Here again, a flight from East Russia/SIberia to LAX via ANC is not exceptionnal.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11183 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
answer : E N R O U T E S T O P !

Blinding flash of the obvious, eh?!

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
a flight from East Russia/SIberia to LAX via ANC is not exceptionnal.

We see them all the time . . . . nice looking aircraft.


User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11163 times:

[quote=FlySSC,reply=2]How did it make it from Toulouse to Bora Bora with the range of the a/c ???

answer : E N R O U T E S T O P !

1 of the pics of the IL86 is taken at JFK. A flight SVO-SNN-JFK was not unsual, especially in the 80s when this pic was taken.
OThe original version of the Il62 couldn't do SVO-JFK nonstop either.

The 3 other pics were taken at LAX. Nothing says that those planes were coming from Moscow.
Here again, a flight from East Russia/SIberia to LAX via ANC is not exceptionnal.[/quote

I didnt say that they HAD to be from Moscow, its just more likely than a flight from say Vladivostok to NYC. Its obvious it would have had to stop somewhere, I just wondered why it was standard practice to do tech stopping on an aircraft with a limited range, when they had the IL-62M in the fleet that could do it non stop.



British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11090 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 4):
I didnt say that they HAD to be from Moscow, its just more likely than a flight from say Vladivostok to NYC. Its obvious it would have had to stop somewhere, I just wondered why it was standard practice to do tech stopping on an aircraft with a limited range, when they had the IL-62M in the fleet that could do it non stop.

If I read well, it says in your initial topic : How did it make it from Moscow with the range of the a/c ? ...

Anyway,

SVO-JFK is 7500km/4661mi/4051.

The Il62M has a range with max playload of 7800km/4210nm which is just 300km above the MOW-NYC distance, but for a maximum of 174 PAX.
The Il86 can carry up to 350 PAX.
It is certainly cheaper to fly 350 PAX on one flight with an enroute stop than on two different nonstop flights



Quoting CalAir (Reply 4):
its just more likely than a flight from say Vladivostok to NYC

VVO-NYC is much longer than SVO-JFK. The Il86 pictured in JFK was certainly coming from VVO but most likely from SVO or LED.


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10437 times:

Aeroflot used the IL-86 on its flights to Buenos Aires, do you think they were nonstop flights?

Answer: HELL NO!!!


USADreamliner


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5808 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10378 times:

Flew on an Il-86 once, Shannon-Havana, so I don't see why there would be a problem flying to NY. Aeroflot had (has?) a fuel depot at Shannon where their transatlantic flights used to refuel.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5120 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10130 times:

They used to fly it into SEA. It sure was a good looking and odd bird to see.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9866 times:

How does a DC-9 make it to Europe? Same answer. Even single engine Cessnas make it to Europe.


An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9806 times:

Quoting CalAir (Thread starter):
Obviously i had to tech stop, maybe in Shannon? But why wouldnt they just send an IL-62?

Another technique I have heard russian military aircraft using is shutting down two engines inflight, flying a little lower and slower, however using something like 30-40% less fuel.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9441 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
Aeroflot had (has?) a fuel depot at Shannon where their transatlantic flights used to refuel.

I believe the same, but the word is that this SU fuel depot was closed by orders from Moscow because many people defected from the Soviet Union in SNN.


User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9273 times:

Quoting CalAir (Thread starter):
How Can This IL-86 Make It To US?  



Quoting CalAir (Thread starter):
Obviously [it] had to tech stop

Dude, if you answered your question, why'd you ask it in the first place? banghead 


User currently offlineSFO2SVO From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8911 times:

While SVO-JFK on IL-86 did exist at some point, I believe West Coast was never served by it. LAX/SFO/SEA was IL-62 -> IL96 -> B777 -> B767.

IL86 in the pic above has engine covers - something they probably would not use for just an overnight layover.

My guess is this is a charter for something like Moscow Circus or Bolshoi Theatre. Came in with several intermediate stops and staying there for a week or two.



318-19-20-21 332 343 717 727 737-234578 743-4 752 763 772 D9/10 M11/8x/90 F70 RJ85 ATR72 SF340 E120 TU34/54 IL18/62/86/9
User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 9):
How does a DC-9 make it to Europe? Same answer. Even single engine Cessnas make it to Europe.

Didn't a guy even kayak across the atlantic? I think he stopped at one of the islands along the way too... I am failing to see the point of this conversation. If you can't get there on a single tank, you usually stop. If you fail to stop, gravity usually has a say.


User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 982 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7610 times:

In the 1980s and early 1990s virtually all Aeroflot services to North and Central America staged through Shannon, and where necessary, Gander as well. Il-86s were used on several such routes and I would say that those depicted at JFK were operating scheduled services from SVO or LED - SU315 and SU319 were the relevant flights, as far as I recall. The advent of longer-range Western equipment did away with need for the en-route stops.


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User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

Shannon has paid a heavy price since Aeroflot's flights now, and for sometime, are non-stop to JFK, whether they be 767 or previously 777.

User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6770 times:

http://www.cessna150-152.com/transatlantic.htm

This is a story with pictures of Leon Stoman who flew his Cessna 150 across the Atlantic from Winchester VA, to Botswana in Africa. With stops for fuel, and in this case, extra fuel tanks and money for bribery, any plane can be ferried anywhere!



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlinePeteinmiami From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Aeroflot used to fly its IL-86 to Havana with stoppovers in Shannon, Ireland and Gander (NF) Canada. If I am not mistaken there was a daily flight back and forth between Moscow and Havana, and sometimes continuing to Mexico and South America. I took one of those flights once and it was full flight, we left Havana around 11PM and we got to Moscow 16 hours later, after all the stops in the way!!!!

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6598 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 12):
?

Jason, what are you doing that far south (Pitcairn)?  Wink



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9810 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6461 times:

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 9):
Even single engine Cessnas make it to Europe.

Cessnas and other small planes are shipped in pieces on boats across the Atlantic. How is that in any way related to the topic of how an IL-86 makes it across? The poster was curious about where tech stops would be and/or if absolutely necessary.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
They used to fly it into SEA. It sure was a good looking and odd bird to see.

I never thought IL-86s went to SEA. It was briefly IL-62s (which still couldn't fly nonstop I believe from Moscow) and then to IL-96s, 777s and finally 767s.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2109 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 20):
Cessnas and other small planes are shipped in pieces on boats across the Atlantic

If you read my previous post, you will see that Cessnas, regardless of range restrictions, WITH STOPS, can make it across the Atlantic, as per the example. STOPS. That is the answer to the original question as to how the IL-86 flies the Atlantic. That is how it is related.



An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 11):
Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
Aeroflot had (has?) a fuel depot at Shannon where their transatlantic flights used to refuel.

I believe the same, but the word is that this SU fuel depot was closed by orders from Moscow because many people defected from the Soviet Union in SNN.

The fuel depot still exists, actually Aeroflot had quite a base in SNN, including a compound of semidetached 5 bedroom houses with sauna, gym and everything, where the crews would stay. Aeroflot crews were free to roam around Shannon town and Limerick, the compound had a normal fence, but was not enclosed (since the 1990s Aeroflot operations through SNN have drastically decreased, so the houses in this compound, aptly named the "Russian Village" actually get rented out, I used to share one of these very comfortable houses with four other technicians for a year, when I was working in SNN). Today some of the houses are still being used by Aeroflot crews, the rest got rented out to Irish families, Wolga-Dneper crews and contracting aircraft maintenance staff, who work in one of the several aircraft maintenance facilities in SNN. We moved out though because in the end the landlord was raising the rent aabout every month and we found cheaper accomodation in a privately rented bungalow).

Aeroflot used to pay their landing and handling fees to the Irish airport company Aer Rianta in fuel, which the airport company sold on for profit. The fuel depot is right at the banks of the river Shannon and has it's own jetty for tanker ships to dock.

Jan


User currently offlineLhrmaccoll From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
Aeroflot used to pay their landing and handling fees to the Irish airport company Aer Rianta in fuel, which the airport company sold on for profit. The fuel depot is right at the banks of the river Shannon and has it's own jetty for tanker ships to dock.

Great plan actually, if a little 'cash in hand'
A


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Cessnas and other low-range aircrafts can make it around the world if they make stops in alaska or groenland.


rolf
25 F9Animal : Your probably right. I think it was the 96. I could have sworn I saw an 86 once. It was cool seeing the IL-62's there. Nice to see something out of t
26 CalAir : Thankyou Irish251, thats what I was getting at. I meant the routing and logic behind sending an aircraft with a 2500mile range on long haul flights,
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