Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No Southwest Redeyes?  
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5251 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

I noticed that Southwest has no redeyes arriving at MDW from the West Coast between 5am and 6am. Why is it that WN has no redeye flights? I know that UA and AA have a number of flights arriving at ORD between 5 and 6 in the morning, so that they can connect with the first and second bank of departures.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6109 times:

That apparently been their policy for years. Probably opering night owl flights isn't some thing they believe to be profitable.

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6072 times:

That and they do all the cleaning and MX stuff on their planes at night too.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Previous threads on this subject:
Why No Red-eyes on WN?
Why Does WN Not Fly Any Red-eyes?
Southwest Red-eyes May Become A Reality
Why No WN Red-eyes?
WN Redeyes?
When WN Starting Red-eye Flights
A good search

[Edited 2006-03-12 09:03:29]

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9219 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
That apparently been their policy for years. Probably opering night owl flights isn't some thing they believe to be profitable.

How many people are there who would like to board a plane at 2 or 3 in the morning... Red eyes in general would be a killer for me; I know I wouldn't want to book a red-eye. Then again, I have spent 26 hours on a private coach bus going from Lancaster, PA to New Orleans last year for the Nokia Sugar Bowl and that didn't bother me...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5622 times:

Actually, I heard the real reason is that the average WN customer has already had a 6-pack and bucket of KFC by 8pm... Also, they don't like missing the ESPN Sportcenter 10pm Nascar highlights. Makes it hard to stay up to catch those late flights!

User currently offlineStealth777 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5594 times:

Sean,
that is a great one.  laughing 


User currently offlineJeffinbwi From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5396 times:

I have seen this question posed to Leaders at company meetings in the past and the answer is always the same. No airline has ever been profitable with there red eye service. Unlike our competitors we do not offer service that does not have a potential for profit.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26536 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5374 times:

Quoting Jeffinbwi (Reply 7):
I have seen this question posed to Leaders at company meetings in the past and the answer is always the same. No airline has ever been profitable with there red eye service. Unlike our competitors we do not offer service that does not have a potential for profit.

Well, that is one are where WN is completely wrong. Redeyes are profitable, particularly out of LAS.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5364 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
How many people are there who would like to board a plane at 2 or 3 in the morning... Red eyes in general would be a killer for me; I know I wouldn't want to book a red-eye.

Me for one! I flew an AA redeye ten years ago from TUS to DFW a LOT, it was nice for me because I got my meetings all planned enroute, had breakfast when I landed and was set to go by 8am and out of there by 5pm landing back in TUS by 5pm. Plus, that particular flight was practically always full or very close to it.



SoCal


User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5279 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Well, that is one are where WN is completely wrong. Redeyes are profitable, particularly out of LAS.

Funny you should mention that. The only red eyes I have ever taken were on America West out of LAS and they were always packed. I have never heard another passenger snore except on one of these red eyes!

I dont know how they didnt make money.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting L1329II (Reply 10):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Well, that is one are where WN is completely wrong. Redeyes are profitable, particularly out of LAS.

Funny you should mention that. The only red eyes I have ever taken were on America West out of LAS and they were always packed. I have never heard another passenger snore except on one of these red eyes!

I dont know how they didnt make money.

Call me crazy, but I'm guessing that WN, one of (or the) most successful US airlines might have discussed this once or twice without the input of the a.net 'experts', and come to a conclusion that they don't want (or need) to do a red eye flight out of LAS.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineBridogger6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 716 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

Quoting L1329II (Reply 10):
Funny you should mention that. The only red eyes I have ever taken were on America West out of LAS and they were always packed. I have never heard another passenger snore except on one of these red eyes!

I dont know how they didnt make money.

Yep, HP's flights out of LAS are ALWAYS packed. Not only that, they provide for great aircraft utilization. HP is full of quick turns, maybe like a 30 minute turn as opposed to 10-15 with WN, but the area they might be a little better in is utilization... get those planes to the east coast and send them right back in the morning, rather than have those moneymakers (sometimes) sit on the ground all night.


User currently offlineL1329II From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 11):
Call me crazy, but I'm guessing that WN, one of (or the) most successful US airlines might have discussed this once or twice without the input of the a.net 'experts', and come to a conclusion that they don't want (or need) to do a red eye flight out of LAS.

This website would be perfect if with every other thread we didnt have so many overblown egos trying to correct everyones thoughts or opinions!  banghead 

I was specifically referring to the LAS redeye comment and I thought I would share my memories. Nothing more, nothing less.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

Yes, and I was specifically referring to comments such as this...sorry if you thought it was yours....I should not have quoted it!

Quoting L1329II (Reply 10):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Well, that is one are where WN is completely wrong. Redeyes are profitable, particularly out of LAS.



Quoting L1329II (Reply 13):
This website would be perfect if with every other thread we didnt have so many overblown egos trying to correct everyones thoughts or opinions!

Yes, I totally agree. I'm sorry that my 'ego' might be correcting an a.net members opinion on how SWA should be run  Yeah sure

My 'overblown ego' and opinion is no less valid than yours.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 12):
get those planes to the east coast and send them right back in the morning, rather than have those moneymakers (sometimes) sit on the ground all night.

That's it alright.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
How many people are there who would like to board a plane at 2 or 3 in the morning

Depending on where you are going, CO red eye flights to EWR leave at 1005p las local, CLE 1255a las local, and to IAH at 0115a las local. A bit late in the evening but then if your in Vegas does that really make a difference?
CO's red eye flights always seem to be full, not packed but full, depending on weather and delays back east. I can't see how WN wouldn't make any money, the product is the product no matter what time of day it is. But hey, I'm not in charge am I?


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

My wife flies regularly to SEA for business. It seems that she almost always has to put in a full day of work on the last day of a trip, and then she has something scheduled for noon the next day.

In that situation, she takes the redeye, usually AA. By not flying redeyes, WN seems to ignoring the business flyer who can't leave SEA, LAX, LAS, etc. by late afternoon.


User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 11):
Call me crazy, but I'm guessing that WN, one of (or the) most successful US airlines might have discussed this once or twice without the input of the a.net 'experts', and come to a conclusion that they don't want (or need) to do a red eye flight out of LAS.


Jimbo

Um, duh. HOWEVER, look at the topic of this thread....."WHY no Southwest Redeyes?". If they wanted to do it, we wouldnt be talking about this.

In regards to the reason why they dont redeye, is it possible that their customer base is so limited to lesure travellers that they feel the response wouldnt be that big? Companies like AA, UA, etc have a HUGH business traveller clientel that are much more willing to redeye for meetings or simply just to get home ASAP! Leasure travellers, i dont believe, would be as apt to take this move if they dont have to....

Mike


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4575 times:



I think they were talking about having redeyes out of Las Vegas. It's just one of those Southwest things that may or may not really be benefiting them. Other LCCs do redeyes and do just fine with them. I think redeyes don't fit in WNs style of operations. They specialize in one hour flights. Even long flights, they don't have that many. One flight per coast to coast city pair each day. I think it also has to do with scheduling, WN likes to keep their cabin crew happy.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4405 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I understand they do maintnence at night and would rather be flying during the day which makes more sense, but I know not all of there planes get maintnence every night, so I don't see why they don't keep those that don't need maintnence going.

[Edited 2006-03-13 08:35:41]


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26536 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 11):
Call me crazy, but I'm guessing that WN, one of (or the) most successful US airlines might have discussed this once or twice without the input of the a.net 'experts', and come to a conclusion that they don't want (or need) to do a red eye flight out of LAS.

It has nothing to do with them doing something right or wrong, simply being wrong about something. WN's no redeye policy exists because their aircraft don't have significant downtime between 6 AM and 11 PM or so. They need time to carry out things like A and B checks and random MX issues that come up and have decided to keep their fleet utilization up by turning quickly during the day as opposed to having aircraft sit for long periods of time. Saying that redeyes have never been profitable, however, is just plain short sighted.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 17):
Um, duh. HOWEVER, look at the topic of this thread....."WHY no Southwest Redeyes?". If they wanted to do it, we wouldnt be talking about this.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Saying that redeyes have never been profitable, however, is just plain short sighted.

I never said anywhere that redeyes have never been profitable!!

Um, duh, I was replying to a specific comment that "WN is completely wrong", not whether redeyes are profitable. I don't think WN said that redeyes were not profitable, although it may have been implied in this thread.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
It has nothing to do with them doing something right or wrong, simply being wrong about something.

Wrong about what?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
WN's no redeye policy exists because their aircraft don't have significant downtime between 6 AM and 11 PM or so. They need time to carry out things like A and B checks and random MX issues that come up and have decided to keep their fleet utilization up by turning quickly during the day as opposed to having aircraft sit for long periods of time.

I totally agree, and that's the answer to the question.

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 17):
In regards to the reason why they dont redeye, is it possible that their customer base is so limited to lesure travellers that they feel the response wouldnt be that big? Companies like AA, UA, etc have a HUGH business traveller clientel that are much more willing to redeye for meetings or simply just to get home ASAP! Leasure travellers, i dont believe, would be as apt to take this move if they dont have to....

I think you'll find there are just as many leisure travellers doing redeyes than business folks, especially out of Vegas. The vegas visitor doesn't want to waste a complete day getting back to the East Coast when they could be spending it (no pun intended) on the tables.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9219 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3850 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 9):
Me for one! I flew an AA redeye ten years ago from TUS to DFW

I suppose that a redeye would be better in a situation as such. Reach the destination by 7 or 8 in the morning for say, a 9 or 10 am meeting somewhere, depending on location proximity to your airport. Sure, for that I would do a redeye flight, given that most of the major Airports including PIT and PHL have a hotel right at the terminal. I actually have a question regarding that AA redeye. What equipment was used on the flights, an MD-80 or 737?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2405 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

Quoting L1329II (Reply 10):
The only red eyes I have ever taken were on America West out of LAS and they were always packed

I will second that. I have free flights out of the wazoo with America West. I fly them all the time. I fly out of LAS-FAT all the time on a red eye if you want to call it that. Arriving at 1am but then also traveling to other destinations where I actually arrive early morning. America West makes a great profit on these flights. Always packed! Good point L1329II

Quoting Jeffinbwi (Reply 7):
No airline has ever been profitable with there red eye service.

WRONG! Sorry but like mentioned, HP makes a good amount of money off of the red eyes. Question, B6 make money on their red eyes? IAD-OAK? I have famliy in DC that take this flight constantly. Always saying that the flight is pretty full.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
What equipment was used on the flights, an MD-80 or 737?

They were all MD80s, this was back about 95 and 96 before the AA 737s.


25 Sean-SAN- : Not only are our (HP) redeyes usually full out of LAS... but they also provide relief when pax miss their flights during the day (long security lines
26 Jetfuel : The simple fact here is an airline that cares about their employees so they can be home in bed with their families at night
27 QXatFAT : What I have found out on some of my red-eyes are that the FA and F/O Captins are single people. I have talked to a few on AA and HP and they say that
28 Iowaman : Lol, WN pilots are always on 3 or 4 day trips I believe, so it's not like they are home every night anyways.
29 Dartland : That's a joke. WN doesn't fly red-eyes because they don't believe it's profitable FOR THEM. Things like their typical customer, mx issues, utilizatio
30 Bond007 : Let's not confuse 'packed flights' and 'making money' with being profitable. Don't assume just because a flight is full that it's making a profit. If
31 N1120A : This is what I was replying to
32 Bond007 : Right, it's highly unlikely this is what WN said in those words. Jimbo
33 FlyDeltaJets : I wanna see an EMPTY plane turn in 15 minutes and i will put my ID on the table and never set foot on the ramp again
34 N1120A : I hate to kill your job, but WN scheduled 10 minute turns during their early days. Now it is more like 30, but I have seen them turn a full 73G at BU
35 Leelaw : I've seen them do it at BUR, MDW, and LAS numerous times.
36 Simpilicity : What rubbish. WN (like DJ here in OZ) has huge business type customer base (esp. small business person who pays his own fares). They could sell fares
37 Leelaw : I've flown numerous red-eyes on each of following routes muliple times, on many different days: LAX-ORD, SFO-ORD, SEA-MDW, LAS-ORD, LAS/DFW/MDW, and L
38 Simpilicity : What doesn't seem to have been mentioned when talking about loads is, load factors are fine, but yields are what matters. Anyone can give seats away a
39 FlyDeltaJets : Ok but I wanna see the footage. The fastest turn I have ever seen ( and been a part of) was an HP 319 it was about 35 min (mostly because of fueling).
40 Leelaw : On an purely anecdotal level as a frequent red-eye passenger, I've seldom paid a premium fare to take a red-eye flight. In fact, I've frequently book
41 Gilligan : All their employees are married with children? That's amazing. Is it a requirement? So their mx people don't get to spend nights at home in bed with
42 N1120A : No, instead they get to pick their kids up from school I didn't say they don't fix their aircraft during the day. I said they carry out most regular
43 Jeffinbwi : Didn't mean to upset anybody. Before I was a Southwest Flight Attendant, I was a Customer Service Supervisor. A few years ago I attended "Quest", a Su
44 MaverickM11 : Red eyes are much cheaper to operate since you're using free airplane time that doesn't have as much ownership cost tied to it as a daylight flight.
45 Exusair : FlyDeltaJets: My fastest turn time was a full 767-300 from touchdown to pushback :27mins 250 off 250 on. Did it not once, but several times. JAX-ATL.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No Southwest In MSP? posted Tue May 9 2006 07:10:36 by NW757MSP
Why No Southwest At Denver posted Thu Feb 19 2004 05:23:51 by Ord777
Why No Southwest Airlines At RSW? posted Tue Dec 23 2003 06:48:35 by Tiger119
Why No Southwest Plane Named For Lamar Muse? posted Fri Jul 18 2003 17:30:09 by Tom in NO
Why No WN Redeyes? posted Sat Nov 30 2002 20:32:32 by Airwarrior
Why No Southwest Red Eyes? posted Wed Oct 25 2000 04:00:22 by Zartan
Why No US Eastbound Redeyes From YVR? posted Sun Feb 5 2006 09:37:39 by ETStar
Why No Changes On Southwest's -500's Yet? posted Wed Apr 10 2002 05:26:13 by SEA nw DC10
Why No A346HGW For VS posted Fri Dec 15 2006 12:36:42 by UAEflyer
Why No International Airline Mergers posted Fri Dec 15 2006 03:33:22 by Boston92