Lostintime From United States, joined Feb 2006, 16 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3040 times:
In the North County times there is an article about a professor from UCSD that says that numbers by the SDCRAA are inflated and brings up issues on why they maybe.
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 3753 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3028 times:
The professor is a NIMBY.
I will be the first San Diegan to publically proclaim, "I LOVE LINDBERGH!!", but realistically, it cannot continue. San Diego needs another airport.
All of Southern California is becoming relentlessly hemmed in. BUR, LGB, and SNA all are besieged by forces that desperately want them closed. "Everybody should just use LAX" is their mantra. Well, guess what? LAX just approved a plan that would cap passengers in the upcoming years. ONT is simply too distant in the vast metropolis that is the metro Los Angeles area and will never be a viable alternative.
It is unfortunate to say that a vast number of the cars clogging up the 405 are travelling from San Diego to use LAX. What does that tell you about San Diego?
Lindbergh is a beautiful airport with a spectacular approach for both the passenger and the spotter. There is nothing more amazing that walking through Balboa Park and every few minutes hearing and then seeing a graceful bird gliding majestically in for landing. You can almost reach out and touch the planes. It is also incredibly convenient for those of us in the nearby neighborhoods.
But it is going to be unable to meet the needs of this portion of California. The runway is less than 10,000 feet long, and there is terrain to clear at the end of the runway that creates serious restrictions on long-haul aircraft, although British Airways used to get a fully loaded 777 of the ground to fly SAN-LHR non-stop!
The case for/against Miramar and other military sites has been discussed. My personal opinion, knowing the terrain and accessibility quite well as a long time resident, is that it is the only viable site. There is simply no other location.
I despise the thought of losing Lindbergh, but in reality, all good things must one day come to an end.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
AviationAddict From United States, joined Feb 2006, 462 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3008 times:
I've only been to San Diego once so I'm obviously not an expert on the area, but is there enough room out there to build another airport close enough to the city?
RedFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2005, 3031 posts, RR: 18 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3008 times:
Well, even if the esteemed professor's assessment is correct, which it isn't, the one factor overlooked is that SAN is not suitable as an airport for such a large metro area in its CURRENT form (regardless of the fact that it may not be at capacity).
"I am looking for the owner of that horse - he's tall, he's blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig."
PanAm747 From United States, joined Feb 2004, 3753 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2966 times:
Quote: I've only been to San Diego once so I'm obviously not an expert on the area, but is there enough room out there to build another airport close enough to the city?
No, San Diego is geographically unique - it is basically a walled city a la West Berlin. To the south is Mexico, to the west is the Pacific ocean, to the east are mountains, and to the north is Camp Pendleton.
San Diego is also unique in that there is virtually NO flat terrain large enough to be suitable for a new airport. Even Lindbergh requires a breathtaking dive over terrain on approach, and terrain must be cleared at the other end of the runway on take-off.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
SJCRRPAX From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2913 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1): I will be the first San Diegan to publically proclaim, "I LOVE LINDBERGH!!", but realistically, it cannot continue. San Diego needs another airport.
Being a native of the city (who moved away, you can take the person out of San Diego, but you can't take San Diego out of the Person) I love the Lindbergh also.
I know, San Diego can use the Dallas model, You know, WN gets the good old airport, and all the other suckers get stuck miles out of town!
Coronado990 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1334 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2900 times:
Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 5): Would the city ever consider a sort of Japan-like reclaimed land island airport out in the ocean?
NO, NO, NO. Japan's reclaimed land airports are in protected shallow harbors, not in deep unprotected oceans. Besides, Lindbergh is built on reclaimed land in the harbor anyway. San Diego was way ahead of it's time in that respect. So you are a little too late.
"UNCLE SAN" If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport!
Coronado990 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1334 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2884 times:
Hey, if anybody wants to see what an airliner looks like at Miramar (NKX) there is a ATA L-1011 heading there right now from ANC arrival time is 1:05pm.
Airline American Trans Air
Flight Number 8704
Departure City (Airport) Anchorage, AK (ANC)
Departure Time 03/12/2006 07:36 AM
Arrival City (Airport) San Diego, CA (NKX)
Arrival Time 03/12/2006 01:05 PM
Remaining Flight Time 01:51
Aircraft Type Lockheed Tri-Star (all series)
Current Altitude 37,000 feet
Current Groundspeed 601 mph
Flight Status In Flight
"UNCLE SAN" If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport!
Hawaiian717 From United States, joined May 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2830 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
It is unfortunate to say that a vast number of the cars clogging up the 405 are travelling from San Diego to use LAX. What does that tell you about San Diego?
While I'm sure the number is notable, vast wouldn't be the right word. A majority of 405 traffic is local commuters.
The new Union Station FlyAway bus does give San Diegans an potential new option to get to LAX: Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner. While it was possible before, this makes it easier requiring just a single transfer at Union Station, rather than doing a Surfliner-Red Line-Blue Line-Green Line dance or dealing with local bus routes. Amtrak isn't the quickest way up, so especially in non-rush hours you could probably get there faster by driving, but it's an option nonetheless.
Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 8): Hey, if anybody wants to see what an airliner looks like at Miramar (NKX) there is a ATA L-1011 heading there right now from ANC arrival time is 1:05pm.
Thegooddoctor From United States, joined Nov 2005, 477 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2769 times:
...weren't the boundries of the Gadsden purchase a little south of the current US-Mexico border (I know they are in AZ - we should occupy waterfront property on the gulf of california). If so, why doesn't the California National Guard just reclaim the lost territory and build a new airport in Tijuana?
GOCAPS16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 3890 posts, RR: 22 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
Yea, with the expansion of Lindbergh Field, San Diego needs a new airport. I just hope they don't move to a new location becuase the current itself is perfect. Right in the middle of downtown. I highly doubt North Island will be a pending location. We don't need any more traffic crossing the Cornonado Bridge going on base. Miramar could be an option since it's big and they could build a new runway and the terminal on the opposite side from the military side. I've seen several military airports which has an active duty military and commericial passenger services. I'm not talking about the reserve forces, BTW. But, the other locations, such as March AFB, is waaay to far. I'm not flying to San Diego just to see my family and drive a good 2 hours away to home? Screw that.
Coronado990 From United States, joined Oct 2003, 1334 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2719 times:
Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 10): ...weren't the boundries of the Gadsden purchase a little south of the current US-Mexico border (I know they are in AZ - we should occupy waterfront property on the gulf of california). If so, why doesn't the California National Guard just reclaim the lost territory and build a new airport in Tijuana?
I always thought the opposite. What a bad ass city Tijuana could have been if they had the port. Or what would really have happened is that San Diego would be in Mexico and Tijuana would have never materialized. I think the location of border definitely favored the U.S. and excluded Mexico from having any kind of decent facility in the northern part of their country. Let's not push it with the airport.
I starting to think we should just shave down Otay Mountain to the 2000' foot level and that should give us a mesa big enough for 3500 acres. The problem with something this massive is I bet that once it gets under way and almost completed, the government will say..."okay, we're done with Miramar now...you can have it".
"UNCLE SAN" If you've seen one airport, you've seen one airport!
Socalfive From United States, joined Mar 2001, 625 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2665 times:
Miramar is the only answer, the question is when and how it will eventually happen, it won't be any time soon, one option is to move the Marines to El Toro and convert Miramar to all commercial. This would solve a lot of problems.
FlightShadow From United States, joined Jun 2005, 857 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2652 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1): There is nothing more amazing that walking through Balboa Park and every few minutes hearing and then seeing a graceful bird gliding majestically in for landing. You can almost reach out and touch the planes. It is also incredibly convenient for those of us in the nearby neighborhoods.
I stayed in the BayView Super8 for a week, the approach path was literally a few blocks over. I also spent a lot of time near the Aerospace museum at Balboa Park
As sad as it would be to see Lindy go, they do need a new one. Remember the PSA crash in the 80s? A crash of that magnitude is almost bound to happen again, whether it be a pilot coming in too low in horrible weather or what not...they need a new one. And there's no room.
Socalfive From United States, joined Mar 2001, 625 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2593 times:
Quoting FlightShadow (Reply 15): Remember the PSA crash in the 80s? A crash of that magnitude is almost bound to happen again, whether it be a pilot coming in too low in horrible weather or what not...they need a new one
Yeah but the PSA crash had nothing to do with Lindburgh itself. That was pilot error by failing to keep visual separation with other traffic and the controller's failure to be certain both pilots were indeed keeping visual.
That same accident could happen over any city in the US under the same circumstances. What has been done to help prevent this from ever occuring again at SAN is the total elimination of light traffic in and out of Lindburgh as the 172 was doing touch and gos and working a traffic pattern when that accident happened. Technology has also come a long way to prevent midairs as well.
Your title is illogical as it does not take time into consideration. This could have made sense: "When Does San Diego Need A New Airport?[/quote]
Quote: said the UCSD professor may be correct in assuming residents won't fly more as they earn more
Residents are the majority of those who fly? I remember two different figures from a few years ago: 1) the city of San Diego has a population on 2.5 million and 2) San Diego welcomes 14 million turists a year. Before I make any assumptions, who flys more, residents or turists?
Expanding an airport as opposed to building a new one can be seen as obviously cheaper when compared to a lack of funding with budget cuts, etc. I suppose people must believe something to make the decisions they make. Like building a new airport for the future is not worth waiting for the airport to get anywhere near full-capacity. Should we wait until the existing airport reaches capacity? SAN has experienced more growth than predicted with trends that points towards an earlier point of an economic capacity maxmium. On the otherhand, we cannot suddenly have the airport ready tomorrow -- that is not how it works -- it may take a decade to go through the politics and environmental issues before work on an airport starts.
Quote: Carson contends the region does not need to spend billions. He said there are ways to hold the lid on operations, even as more people fly in and out of San Diego.
I am not going to assume what this guy's stance on the issue is (as I could be wrong), but if those in bold are his words (or journalists paraphrasing), then he does not know what the deal with SAN is.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
Murchmo From United States, joined Sep 2005, 31 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2519 times:
...they've been working on this for a while now....there has even been initial looks at a reclaimed airport...but we all know it will never happen...the links below are for the San Diego airport site explaining a lot of issues, the second link is a map of the final 9 possible site locations. they actually narrowed it down a few months ago from 15 i think, thats why i remember this site.
...and yes they need a new airport! aside from the expansion that is needed for the area, there have always been safety concerns from the public about that awesome SD approach...
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From United States, joined Feb 2006, 16 posts, 
From , joined today!, posts, 
Being a native of the city (who moved away, you can take the person out of San Diego, but you can't take San Diego out of the Person) I love the Lindbergh also. 
If only I knew a place to photograph at NKX.
From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 3890 posts, 
From France, joined Dec 2003, 22630 posts, 
I stayed in the BayView Super8 for a week, the approach path was literally a few blocks over. I also spent a lot of time near the Aerospace museum at Balboa Park 
I remember two different figures from a few years ago: 1) the city of San Diego has a population on 2.5 million and 2) San Diego welcomes 14 million turists a year. Before I make any assumptions, who flys more, residents or turists?