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Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace  
User currently offlinePIA747 From Pakistan, joined Apr 2003, 624 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

Are pilots over the age of 60 and flying for airlines with the cut off age at 65 such as Air India allowed to fly into US airports?

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5642 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).

The only question mark is does ICAO have an age limit for pilots? I don't belive so, but cant remember. If they do then any ICAO could ban pilots older than the rule and most would, but I dont think it has ever become an issue.


Gemuser



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User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).

I suspect that the pilot must also to be licensed by an agency that permits an ATP to fly to age 62 or 65. In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60. I have no idea what the JAA does in Europe.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5642 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4047 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 2):
I suspect that the pilot must also to be licensed by an agency that permits an ATP to fly to age 62 or 65. In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60.

Of course, but the pilot has to be licience by the country of registration of the aircraft, so that is covered in the first condition.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

Quoting Poitin (Reply 2):
In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60.

Doesn't this rule apply only to pilots of passenger aircraft. I recall that 60+ was OK on freighters and/or for co-pilots.


User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5414 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 3):
Of course, but the pilot has to be licience by the country of registration of the aircraft, so that is covered in the first condition.

Not quite "Of course!".

The rules of the country you are flying in must be followed, if they are more stringent than ICAO standards, and age 60 is more stringent.

The only reason foreign pilots can fly in the USA past age 60 is because those airlines are given a waiver - it has nothing to do with the registration of the aircraft or their license.

I believe even with the waiver, one pilot, not the PIC, must be 60 or younger.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting PIA747 (Thread starter):
Are pilots over the age of 60 and flying for airlines with the cut off age at 65 such as Air India allowed to fly into US airports?

I thought the retirement age for pilots in AI was 58, with possibility of extension to 60 if required by the airline....has that changed?  Confused


User currently offlinePIA747 From Pakistan, joined Apr 2003, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5642 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 5):
The rules of the country you are flying in must be followed, if they are more stringent than ICAO standards, and age 60 is more stringent.

The only reason foreign pilots can fly in the USA past age 60 is because those airlines are given a waiver - it has nothing to do with the registration of the aircraft or their license.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! For aircraft engaged in "International Civil Aviation" (ICA) which normal airline services definate qualify as. It was agreed by all nations who signed the Chicargo Convention (1944) and joined ICAO that local rules for certification issues, which is what we are talking about, did NOT apply to aircraft of other nationality engaged in International Civil Aviation, but rather that they would operate under the rules of the country of registration of the aircraft.

If you think about it ICA would be just about impossiable without the convention. One example, among many, many hundereds. If what you say "rules of the country you are flying in must be followed" UA could NEVER operate services to Australia, because they only have one flight attendent for every 50 pax. Australian rules require one flight attendent for every 36 pax. Because of the convention we allow UA to operate in Oz airspace under US rules (50:1) and the US allows QF to operate in US airspace under Australain rules (36:1).

The same thing applies to the topic of this thread. Indian rules apply to the operations of Indian airliners/airlines in US air space AND in return US rules apply to US airlines operations in Indian air space.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5414 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 5):
I believe even with the waiver, one pilot, not the PIC, must be 60 or younger.

Oops, wrong way round of course. One pilot, not PIC, can be over 60 as long as other pilot is 60 or younger.

...and I guess a country cannot make the regulations less restrictive to foreign pilots flying in their (the foreign country's) airspace. Unfortunately, the FAA made it more restrictive for their own pilots!


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlinePIA747 From Pakistan, joined Apr 2003, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.

User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Just to bring in the Brazilian experience: Brazil allows pilots in comand to keep flying until they are not able to pass a more restrictive health check, and the pilot over 60 must be subject to such health check every 4 months. I know pilots who have more than 65 years and they are still working as captains for some Brazilian airlines in domestic routes.

User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2899 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Actually, their name comes from their origin in northwest Iowa, in the Iowa Great Lakes region. They were named Great Lakes well before they flew anywhere near Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie or Ontario.

User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

Knope2001 - I think this belongs on the Great Lakes Av thread here :

Great Lakes? (by Mycrj17 Mar 16 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Actually, their name comes from their origin in northwest Iowa, in the Iowa Great Lakes region. They were named Great Lakes well before they flew anywhere near Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie or Ontario.



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User currently offlineNightFlier From United States of America, joined May 2004, 284 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3521 times:

I met a pilot once who was flying for a charter company, the aircraft was a Citation. He was in his 70's, he explained to me that in General Aviation and Business, Private, and Corprite Aviation there is no cut off age. As-long as they can pass the medical they can continue flying for as long as they want. Peace


Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3516 times:

Would'nt it be the most fair to do that any pilot who passes a Medical type 1 is certified to operate a commercial airliner?

Off course labor issues are there too, I know in Belgium the absolute age for your retirement is 68 in any profession except off course self employment. (sucks I guess...)


User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

Quoting PIA747 (Reply 10):
Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.

What is PIAs retirement age?

PIA777



GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

AT BA, pilots retire at 55! Kinda seems "too" young to me.

User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Ive always thought that the age ceiling was age discrimination in the U.S. Just wait until i get up there, I will raise hell when i have to retire at 60.

And anyone who brings up the arguement that it is unsafe to have someone over 60 flying an aircraft, if they pass the same physical as everyone else, then they should be able to continue to fly. Now don't get be wrong, there are some 60 yr olds in bad shape, but there are some 45 and 50 yr olds in bad shape as well. Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 18):

Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.

Totally agree!


User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 19):
Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.

I agree. 60 is way too young to retire.

PIA777



GO CUBS!!
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