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Speak English Or Your Out Of A Job In Brasil?  
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

An English teacher friend of mine here in Sao Paulo told me that there is a new law in Brasil. If you work for a Brasilian airline and do not speak English by the end of this year, you are out of a job. Does anyone know the validity to this? This includes pilots and flight attendants on domestic flights.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Thread starter):
This includes pilots and flight attendants on domestic flights.

English is the 'cockpit language' all over the world so ALL pilots should be able to speak English. I'm surprised ALL airline amployees have to speak English though.


User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Thread starter):
This includes pilots and flight attendants on domestic flights.

As TinkerBelle said, if you are a pilot you MUST speak English anyway. I can understand wanting flight attendants to also speak English, but does this cover all airline staff?

IMO it would be a very hard law to pass through any kind of law making process as it appears discriminatory on face value.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3897 times:

Quoting Sampa737 (Thread starter):
An English teacher friend of mine here in Sao Paulo told me that there is a new law in Brasil. If you work for a Brasilian airline and do not speak English by the end of this year, you are out of a job.

Well, then I guess 85% of TAM's personnel will be fired before the end of the year!  Smile

I flew TAM quite a few times now (last experience was on February 23rd) and everytime I congratulated myself for taking Portuguese at school. Not a single employee, neither in the ground nor onboard, spoke a single word of English, let alone Spanish. It really surprised me, especially since they were given four stars by Skytrax, and these were international flights (EZE-GRU and GRU-EZE).

Varig, on the other hand, was pretty multilingual.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9671 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3880 times:

This makes sense if it is for flight attendants and pilots. I can't image a reason for a ramper or accountant or someone else that does not see customers to have to speak English. Does anyone have a link to a source saying what exactly is being required?

It is no shock that Brazil would want its airline staff to speak English. More airlines than not require crew members to speak English since English speakers are by far the number one airline traveler group. However in Brazil there is always an issue between learning English or Spanish as a second language. I wonder if they will be requiring people to be trilingual.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 2):
IMO it would be a very hard law to pass through any kind of law making process as it appears discriminatory on face value.

Canada has a law that says every single Air Canada flight must have at least one French speaking flight attendant, which makes no sense on a significant number of flights because in British Columbia more people speak Spanish than French even though French is a national language.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
Canada has a law that says every single Air Canada flight must have at least one French speaking flight attendant, which makes no sense on a significant number of flights because in British Columbia more people speak Spanish than French even though French is a national language.

Ah but there is your catch... Its a 'national' language so whoever made the law/rule has the interest of the nation to preserve. In Canada that makes sense given the significant French-English culture.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Regarding commercial pilots, I'm pretty sure it has always been a requirement. No? Is it not an IATA requirement?

Surprised by all flight attendants, though.

Cheers

[Edited 2006-03-13 04:20:50]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

English should be a must for flight attendants even in domestic flights
Regards
Alex!!!
 wave 



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3751 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
Is it not an IATA requirement?

IATA? You are probably thinking of ICAO.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25843 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 2):
if you are a pilot you MUST speak English anyway

Let me tell you there are plenty of commercial pilots around the world that don't speak a word of English, nor is there any law stating they must speak English.
ATC communications, company manuals etc.. are in many countries in the language of that country.

Since we are speaking of Brazil, a pilot could enjoy a whole life long career without having to speak English flying domestically, or if they spoke Spanish to the remainder of the continent.
Other large countries such as China, Russia, most of Africa can be devoit of English speakers.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMonteycarlos From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2107 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
Let me tell you there are plenty of commercial pilots around the world that don't speak a word of English, nor is there any law stating they must speak English.
ATC communications, company manuals etc.. are in many countries in the language of that country.

I beg to differ.



It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
User currently offlineGearup380 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 85 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Quoting Marambio (Reply 3):
Well, then I guess 85% of TAM's personnel will be fired before the end of the year!

 bigthumbsup 

Flew CDG-GRU on TAM recently and really have to agree. The FA's English was indeed not very good considered this flight was their "premium" service to Europe with multilingual passengers onboard.

I then flew GOL domestic GRU-BSB-SLZ and even though I was probably the only foreigner onboard, those guys really were pretty fluent and enjoyed speaking in English.



Excess baggage? Oh come on...
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

Can we have the thread title ammended so that it is correct please? Should be Speak English or you're out of a job in Brasil?  Wink


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineTERRA From Iraq, joined Aug 1999, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 8):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6):
Is it not an IATA requirement?

IATA? You are probably thinking of ICAO.

IATA can only make recommendations and it is recommended that airline employees including baggage handlers etc speak basic English and have basic numerical skills as per the IATA AHM. If an airline wants to take on board this recommendation they can.

I doubt that there is an ICAO regulation because if there was all would speak English by now throughout the world. It is up to the airlines to decide what skills they want from their staff and not for ICAO. However airline staff that leave the domestic borders will need to conform to ICAO standards, but i'm not sure of the stipulations here. Need to study the book.

An airline may also state in a SLA with a 3rd party handler that they want the ground handling staff etc to speak English for safety reasons.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13148 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3494 times:

Probably English speaking ability is being asked for those employees with customer contact. English often the 2nd language of many people throughout the world including many non-domestic passangers (including those from Asia, Europe) as well as the language of most in the USA, Canada, UK, and so on.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

Well, my TAM experience has been quite the opposite. I've had English, German, Spanish, and French speakers on a single GRU-BSB flight (we had announcements on all these languages; grabbed my attention given how many). Also Spanish and German, and possibly French, on a GRU-MIA flight. I never really pay much attention to all the languages available, so I couldn't really tell about my other flights with TAM.

But Varig is indeed quite multilingual.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3359 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Marambio (Reply 3):
I flew TAM quite a few times now (last experience was on February 23rd) and everytime I congratulated myself for taking Portuguese at school. Not a single employee, neither in the ground nor onboard, spoke a single word of English, let alone Spanish. It really surprised me, especially since they were given four stars by Skytrax, and these were international flights (EZE-GRU and GRU-EZE).

Have to agree with you. I remember a flight JJ8090 on GRU-GIG leg, a passanger ask for a napkim... and the F/A shows how lost she was, only one F/A out of 5 speaks english (and it's an operational leg of MIA-GRU-GIG flight!)
Varig and Gol it's the opposite, they know the routes with foreigners and use their F/A bilingual on. Gol keep a motivated staff (they received closer to 18 salaries last year) and they believe that the airline will keep the strong expansion.. i.e. future opportunities.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
This makes sense if it is for flight attendants and pilots.

No it doesn't. You think firing all employees of an airline that don't suddenly learn a new and difficult language by the end of the year is justified? That's crazy! And who will be paying for their language lessons? You try learning a new language in a few months time and see how easy it is.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
since English speakers are by far the number one airline traveler group.

Says who? Sources please. People in China, Latin America, Europe, might have something to say about that statement.

HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5432 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

The ICAO regulation is just for pilots and ground crew involved in radio communications...and it is English for all international operations...and it's not just a recommendation (Chicago convention for example requires adherence to all ICAO standards).

As for any other crewmembers....must be a local Brazil issue.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 12):
Can we have the thread title ammended so that it is correct please? Should be Speak English or you're out of a job in Brasil?

You mean amended?

I tend not to correct people, but you were asking for it!



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
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